House deed recording options -- help?

[always_learning]

DH and I are in the process of buying a house in FL and the title company wants us to choose the vesting, or deed recording. Can someone help explain the pros/cons of two types of deed recording to me? I'm coming from a state where the deed is simply held jointly for a married couple (or we were never asked... it has been so long, I have no idea) so I'm not sure what to choose. I did read a bunch about them and it seems, on the surface, that either would be fine for us, but I thought I'd check here in case I'm missing something.

The ones I have narrowed it down to are Joint Tenants with the Right of Survivorship and the Tenants by the Entirety.

From what I can see, the main difference is the TBE protects the residence from most creditors and that the two types of recording are handled the same way when one spouse dies.

Am I missing anything? Pros cons to either choice?


TIA.

 

[JoeWras]

I wish I could give advice. Let me just say it was confusing for me too. Our Florida based lawyer was no help and somewhat incompetent. He even accidentally recorded the deed in the wrong county. Duh-oh!

We ended up (after 3 tries at recording) with a "H/W" title. I'm sure you also considered that too. We have since sold the property without issues, just requiring both our signatures. We never ran into credit issues or successorship needs. Honestly, I went through it all naively. You are wise to do your homework.

BTW, I assume you had a reason to rule out "H/W"? Edit:. Looks like "H/W" is effectively TBE. Man my lawyer explained nothing... Never mind my question.

 

[aja8888]

Here's an explanation:

Tenancy by the Entirety (TBE or T by E) is a form of property ownership for married couples. Property titled under TBE is legally separate from the property that each individual owns. For example, in TBE states spouse number one is person. Spouse number two is another person. The TBE unit of ownership symbolizes a third, separate, person. So, creditors with a judgment against just one spouse are restricted from seizing the TBE assets. Further, even if creditor A has a judgment against one spouse and creditor B has a judgment against the other spouse, the TBE assets are still theoretically safe. A couple’s TBE assets are only vulnerable when the same creditor has a judgment against both spouses at once. In tenancy by the entirety, both partners wholly own the entire property concurrently.

Another trait is Right of Survivorship. This means that when one spouse dies, the law entitles the other spouse to receive the share of the one who died. In contrast are the Community Property States.

Check the linked website as only certain states allow this form of ownership:

https://www.assetprotectionplanners.com/tenancy-entirety-states/

 

[sergio]

Our state doesn't offer Tenants by Entirety so I can't help you there.

Joint Tenant With Right of Survivorship basically means that if you die, your spouse gets 100% of the house. Pretty common among married couples and somewhat intuitive. This can get tricky in some cases. If you both have kids from a previous relationship, can you trust that your spouse will give your kid their fair share if you pass away? Or will they give it all to their kid?

The other option we had was Tenants in Common. This means your ownership in the home will transfer to whoever you name in your will if you pass away. So in the above example, you could specify that your kid would get your share of the house if you pass away.

 

[always_learning]

I wish I could give advice. Let me just say it was confusing for me too. Our Florida based lawyer was no help and somewhat incompetent. He even accidentally recorded the deed in the wrong county. Duh-oh!

We ended up (after 3 tries at recording) with a "H/W" title. I'm sure you also considered that too. We have since sold the property without issues, just requiring both our signatures. We never ran into credit issues or successorship needs. Honestly, I went through it all naively. You are wise to do your homework.

BTW, I assume you had a reason to rule out "H/W"? Edit:. Looks like "H/W" is effectively TBE. Man my lawyer explained nothing... Never mind my question.

I had a minor freak out with the H/W thing. I read that and confused-yelled in my head "That isn't one of our options!" I really wish they would at least provide some layman's explanations of these things. The form we got just lists the options, tells us to choose one, and says to consult an attorney if we have questions. This whole process seems more complicated than it needs to be. In our current state, closings are done by attorneys by default, so I could have just called them, but we are just left to our own devices here.

Thanks for sharing your experience.

Here's an explanation:



Check the linked website as only certain states allow this form of ownership:

https://www.assetprotectionplanners.com/tenancy-entirety-states/

Thanks for this! I guess my search words weren't precise enough as this site didn't show up for me in the results. I mostly found individual lawyer sites that read like, well, a lawyer wrote them. This is helpful.

Our state doesn't offer Tenants by Entirety so I can't help you there.

Joint Tenant With Right of Survivorship basically means that if you die, your spouse gets 100% of the house. Pretty common among married couples and somewhat intuitive. This can get tricky in some cases. If you both have kids from a previous relationship, can you trust that your spouse will give your kid their fair share if you pass away? Or will they give it all to their kid?

The other option we had was Tenants in Common. This means your ownership in the home will transfer to whoever you name in your will if you pass away. So in the above example, you could specify that your kid would get your share of the house if you pass away.

Yeah, our financials are JTWROS, so that was my automatic default but it looks like the TBE might be the way we go. The Tenants in Common could work, but sounds like it would add complications, or simply confusion, when one of us passes so I mentally placed that as choice three.



Thanks, everyone, for helping. I'll stew & read on this a bit more before deciding, but I think we'll go for the TBE (aka H/W --- man, that is much more straightforward!) unless I uncover a reason not to.

 

[JoeWras]

I had a minor freak out with the H/W thing. I read that and confused-yelled in my head "That isn't one of our options!" I really wish they would at least provide some layman's explanations of these things. The form we got just lists the options, tells us to choose one, and says to consult an attorney if we have questions. This whole process seems more complicated than it needs to be. In our current state, closings are done by attorneys by default, so I could have just called them, but we are just left to our own devices here.

Thanks for sharing your experience.

It was 15 years ago. I'm just guessing here... But perhaps "Husband and Wife" is archaic terminology today and the state standardized on TBE to avoid the gender issue. After all, it is the same legally.

I'm no lawyer, but in reading the options, TBE seems to be the best choice.

Some day, I'd love to tell you all why it took 3 attempts at recording what was a Quit Claim deed. Story is too long. What a fiasco! At least I didn't have to pay extra. The take away from my experience is this: after your deed is recorded, scour the county web site for both your tax registration, and then drill down to the recorder office book page image. Make sure it is done correctly.

 

[always_learning]

It was 15 years ago. I'm just guessing here... But perhaps "Husband and Wife" is archaic terminology today and the state standardized on TBE to avoid the gender issue. After all, it is the same legally.

I'm no lawyer, but in reading the options, TBE seems to be the best choice.

Some day, I'd love to tell you all why it took 3 attempts at recording what was a Quit Claim deed. Story is too long. What a fiasco! At least I didn't have to pay extra. The take away from my experience is this: after your deed is recorded, scour the county web site for both your tax registration, and then drill down to the recorder office book page image. Make sure it is done correctly.

You might be right on the H/W vs the legalese of the TBE. I know there is a bill before Congress to officially change the terms to read "spouse", so maybe FL decided to just go ahead and change it on their own? I find that hard to believe, but stranger things have happened.

And when you're ready to tell the story, I'll listen and I'll make the appropriate noises & faces of disgust and dismay and commiserate with you. I can handle 'errors' because we are all human, but incompetence and indifference in doing a job correctly drive me nuts.

Thanks for the tip to check the official records to check for accuracy. I will do that!

 

[JoeWras]

You might be right on the H/W vs the legalese of the TBE. I know there is a bill before Congress to officially change the terms to read "spouse", so maybe FL decided to just go ahead and change it on their own? I find that hard to believe, but stranger things have happened.

Yeah, maybe it is just your title company being more inclusive.

 

[sergio]

I had a minor freak out with the H/W thing. I read that and confused-yelled in my head "That isn't one of our options!" I really wish they would at least provide some layman's explanations of these things. The form we got just lists the options, tells us to choose one, and says to consult an attorney if we have questions. This whole process seems more complicated than it needs to be. In our current state, closings are done by attorneys by default, so I could have just called them, but we are just left to our own devices here.

Thanks for sharing your experience.





Thanks for this! I guess my search words weren't precise enough as this site didn't show up for me in the results. I mostly found individual lawyer sites that read like, well, a lawyer wrote them. This is helpful.



Yeah, our financials are JTWROS, so that was my automatic default but it looks like the TBE might be the way we go. The Tenants in Common could work, but sounds like it would add complications, or simply confusion, when one of us passes so I mentally placed that as choice three.



Thanks, everyone, for helping. I'll stew & read on this a bit more before deciding, but I think we'll go for the TBE (aka H/W --- man, that is much more straightforward!) unless I uncover a reason not to.

The idea is that you determine who gets your share before you pass away and put it in your will, so it's all transferred seamlessly after your death. Most people would put their spouse, so JTWROS is simpler, but in a few case Tenants in Common is advantageous.