Illinois Gas Tax

[jazz4cash]

Nononononono!

According to the long-time residents of WV around here, it's "all them transplants" from other states. Doesn't seem to matter where they're from. And if you didn't grow up in the same house that your great-great-grandmother did, you're a "transplant".

Get off my lawn indeed!

And as I tell my brother who migrated to the same area you live in, it ain’t really WV.

 

[JoeWras]

For every metered Chicago home, they can probably supply 2 or 3 suburban homes cause we were used to wasting water so close to the lake and all. I used to spray down the southern exposure to my brick building every afternoon to limit the need for AC before I had the meter.

Right. That's what I mean. All kinds of odd usage. I swear McDonalds washed their parking lot 3 times a day. The biggest waste were the lawn sprinklers that would stay on for hours.

A water meter will wake you up real quick to wasteful usage.

BTW: the lead pipe thing is a whole different story. Lead is OK as long as it isn't disturbed and the pH of the water is OK. The oxide that builds up provides protection. The problem is when it is disturbed.

My plumber father was putting in lead underground pipe up through the mid 80s. This is where Chicago gets weird. They had so many Big Labor influences that they stuck with old school stuff too long. Examples: home wiring in conduit only, no PVC pipe, etc.

While the rest of the world was concerned about lead and transitioning to plastic for underground supply to the house, Chicago was still putting in lead. You see, that saves jobs...

 

[CRLLS]

And yet Lake Michigan is at a near all-time high water level, currently 4 ft above the optimal level set by US and Canadian regulatory bodies.

 

[JoeWras]

And yet Lake Michigan is at a near all-time high water level, currently 4 ft above the optimal level set by US and Canadian regulatory bodies.

This year. It will change.

About 15 years ago we had a really bad drought in NC. The city put all kinds of restrictions on us, and encouraged us to buy low flow toilets, etc. They raised prices significantly. They said the watering restrictions were now permanent.

The residents did a great job. The draw from the lake is public record. You could see it drop 30% or so, despite the area growing and adding new housing.

So, after 2 years, the city dropped restrictions and basically said "you are free to use the water, go ahead!" because revenues were dropping.

So, lakes levels have to be looked at long term. I remember my mom talking about the swimming area north of Oak Street beach (the concrete beach) and how when she was a kid (30s), the ladders there really mattered. This was commented upon when the water was basically lapping over in the 70s, as it is now. Remember that Michigan was at a low not seen since the 30s in 2011.

 

[NW-Bound]

It came as a surprise to me that some towns in California still do not have water meters. And the LA area had water shortage almost 100 years ago, as depicted in the movie Chinatown.

The earlier posts made me realize I did not know how much water we have been using, although I know that we pay almost $200/month for water+sewage+garbage collection.

So, I asked my wife for the city bills, and saw that we used 24,000 gallons last month. The typical home here uses 9,000 gallons, they say. My wife's plants and the swimming pool are water guzzlers! We stopped having a lawn long ago, thank goodness.

I looked further to see that the charge for 9,000 gallons is $31. Not too bad, compared to Chicago $19 for 5,000 gallons.

 

[JoeWras]

It came as a surprise to me that some towns in California still do not have water meters. And the LA area had water shortage almost 100 years ago, as depicted in the movie Chinatown.

The earlier posts made me realize I did not know how much water we have been using, although I know that we pay almost $200/month for water+sewage+garbage collection.

So, I asked my wife for the city bills, and saw that we used 24,000 gallons last month. The typical home here uses 9,000 gallons, they say. My wife's plants and the swimming pool are water guzzlers! We stopped having a lawn long ago, thank goodness.

I looked further to see that the charge for 9,000 gallons is $31. Not too bad, compared to Chicago $19 for 5,000 gallons.

Do they measure in gallons or CCF (hundred cubic feet). Most meters measure CCF.

Just curious, because perhaps you are using more than you think.

We typically use 3 CCF, down from a typical 5 CCF before the city busted our chops (low flow toilets, rain barrels and just watching it helped).

3 CCF is 2244 gallons.

 

[NW-Bound]

The meter measures in CCF, but they show the usage in gallons in the bill for people to visualize it.

You scared me when I thought perhaps I used 24,000 CCF a month. No, it was 31 "units" (as called out in the bill).

 

[CRLLS]

JoeWras, according to the USGS.gov website, the average water consumption per capita is 80-100 gallons per day That is ~90*30*2=5,400 gallons per month for a couple. At 3CCF per month, you are doing very well at conservation I would say. I can't compare since I am on a well and cannot measure our usage.

 

[Ronstar]

And yet Lake Michigan is at a near all-time high water level, currently 4 ft above the optimal level set by US and Canadian regulatory bodies.

Yep. Above average rainfall is to blame. It will start going back down soon.

But to put this in perspective, Lake Powell in Arizona is up 50’ since March.

 

[Breedlove]

80 to a00 gallons a day ……….Seems like a lot but then average . We have a well so there is no way to gauge usage . Trash , once a week I run to the dump on the way to the grocery store 2.00 a visit . Electricity all We pay for in that area.

 

[rk911]

Mr

we're in west suburban Chicago, abt 25-mi due west, using Chicago water. my last water bill was ~$44. broken down:

- 400 cf of water: $20
- meter fee: $14
- the balance was city sewer fees.

we get hit with sewer fees from both the city and the sanitary district. my average sewer/water/garbage costs in 2018 were:

- sanitary district: $23.37 p/m
- city water/sewer: $37.74 p/m
- garbage: $4.65 p/m (we're on a per-bag/can system here)

so far my 2019 numbers are essentially the same.

 

[JoeWras]

JoeWras, according to the USGS.gov website, the average water consumption per capita is 80-100 gallons per day That is ~90*30*2=5,400 gallons per month for a couple. At 3CCF per month, you are doing very well at conservation I would say. I can't compare since I am on a well and cannot measure our usage.

Thanks. It is a stick used by the city. Above 4 CCF, they jack the price. They gave us an incentive, we try to use it.

We're no saints. A few months get a 4 CCF, and if I plant grass seed in the fall, I usually get a 5 or 6 CCF for a month or two. 20 years ago before they went to graduated pricing, I watered the lawn a lot and remember a few months above 10 CCF. Not anymore, too costly.

For 3 CCF, our bill comes out to $64. That's water + sewer + storm water + trash + hazardous waste. Only water and sewer are charged by the meter. So: water/sewer=$41, other stuff=$23.

Yeah, use more water, pay more sewer. Unless you get a separate meter for lawn water. Not worth it IMHO if you are easy on gardening water.

They are raising these rates at about 5% a year consistently the last decade. Then they can say that taxes are not going up. Raleigh may have a few Chicagoans on council. They are learning northern based trickery. They supply to some suburbs, and charge a much higher rate for them (basically double).

Raleigh water rates (after all the base charges):
* 0-4 CCF = $2.59 per
* 5-10 CCF = $4.32 per
* 11 CCF+ = $5.75 per

Sewer: flat $4.54 per CCF

So, in Raleigh, NW-Bound's 31 CCF would cost me $340 per month. Yeah, that's a stick alright.

 

[Ger0n1mo]

Good thing I drove 6 hrs out of there yesterday with no foreseeable intent to return.

OH's went up 11 cents today.

I was in OH this weekend. Still $.30/gal cheaper than across the line to PA.

 

[CRLLS]

Thanks. It is a stick used by the city. Above 4 CCF, they jack the price. They gave us an incentive, we try to use it.

We're no saints. A few months get a 4 CCF, and if I plant grass seed in the fall, I usually get a 5 or 6 CCF for a month or two. 20 years ago before they went to graduated pricing, I watered the lawn a lot and remember a few months above 10 CCF. Not anymore, too costly.

For 3 CCF, our bill comes out to $64. That's water + sewer + storm water + trash + hazardous waste. Only water and sewer are charged by the meter. So: water/sewer=$41, other stuff=$23.

Yeah, use more water, pay more sewer. Unless you get a separate meter for lawn water. Not worth it IMHO if you are easy on gardening water.

They are raising these rates at about 5% a year consistently the last decade. Then they can say that taxes are not going up. Raleigh may have a few Chicagoans on council. They are learning northern based trickery. They supply to some suburbs, and charge a much higher rate for them (basically double).

Raleigh water rates (after all the base charges):
* 0-4 CCF = $2.59 per
* 5-10 CCF = $4.32 per
* 11 CCF+ = $5.75 per

Sewer: flat $4.54 per CCF

So, in Raleigh, NW-Bound's 31 CCF would cost me $340 per month. Yeah, that's a stick alright.

A fixed volume rationing with no regards to the number of occupants? Sure doesn't seem right to me.

FWIW, I am in an unincorporated area of DuPage Co. The western suburbs of Chicago. We pay our own garbage bills. Without senior rates, the lowest rate available from several service providers is $21/month. Senior rates drops it to roughly 16 per mo.

 

[NW-Bound]

Hmmm... To tell the truth, my wife has been taking care of paying bills, and while I care about electric usage (with an eye on how to size the solar system), I never look at the city water bill, other than knowing what my wife tells me what the total is.

So, out comes the water bill again to me to peruse.

Water = $81.70 for the 31CCF (23188 gal)
Sewer = $33.98
Trash = $26.80
+ Misc. Fees

Total = $185.47 for June

PS. The above water charge comes out to $31 for 9000 gal, as I reported earlier. Why different units? Strange.

 

[JoeWras]

A fixed volume rationing with no regards to the number of occupants? Sure doesn't seem right to me.

Correct! 1 person or 10, the graduated billing is the same. "They Say" that a family of 4 should easily be able to stay at 4 CCF or below. Right, sure.

So for ya'll coming down to NC to enjoy our low cost of living, beware the water bill. Stay where you are. You don't want these water bills.

 

[ERD50]

A fixed volume rationing with no regards to the number of occupants? Sure doesn't seem right to me. ...

Why not? They use the water, they should pay for it.

-ERD50

 

[CRLLS]

Why not? They use the water, they should pay for it.

-ERD50

You misunderstood my comment I think. The water pricing is based on a certain amount of water. The more water used, the higher the prices are per gallon. The theory is for those people who waste water, this is supposed to be a deterrent. The city even sends out nasty notices to the homes that use above some arbitrary amount of water. But the city doesn't know if there is one or ten family members residing in a home. This is overbearing on the city's part IMO. I understand the issue that people should pay for the water they use. Somehow the current billing practice doesn't match the desire to curtail excess usage, and puts undue pressure on larger families. One could even say it may be regressive billing causing those larger, (per gallon) low income families to pay higher water bills than if it were a level pricing.

 

[NW-Bound]

For a while, my sister-in-law was not completely moved to San Diego and had two homes. She said San Diego utility company twice sent letters to her asking why she was using so little power.

What the heck! If they suspected that she was stealing power, they could come and inspect their meter, or replace it if they thought it was broken. I told my SIL that I would have told them that it was my own business.

PS. With my DIY solar system being online, I have been monitoring my power usage daily. It looks like I generate only 1/3 of my consumption, but save 1/2 of the bill due to the difference between on-peak and off-peak rates. I am waiting to see if they will send a letter to me asking how I did it.

 

[NW-Bound]

... Somehow the current billing practice doesn't match the desire to curtail excess usage, and puts undue pressure on larger families. One could even say it may be regressive billing causing those larger, (per gallon) low income families to pay higher water bills than if it were a level pricing.

Let them poor people buy more homes to spread out.

Else, they can take showers together. And flush toilet less often.

 

[CRLLS]

Ahh the "cheaper by the dozen" bath time scene comes to mind. There is a historical truth to the phrase, "Don't throw the baby out with the bath water" and we can all go back to outhouses. Flushing is the number one (pun not intended) consumer of water,

 

[Ronstar]

There is a historical truth to the phrase, "Don't throw the baby out with the bath water" and we can all go back to outhouses,

Ah yes. The master of the house bathed first. Followed by the wife. Then the children going from from oldest to youngest. All with the same water. Had to be careful not to throw the baby out with the bath water at the end.

 

[NW-Bound]

Ah yes. The master of the house bathed first. Followed by the wife...

This will vary with different households.

 

[ERD50]

You misunderstood my comment I think. The water pricing is based on a certain amount of water. The more water used, the higher the prices are per gallon. The theory is for those people who waste water, this is supposed to be a deterrent. The city even sends out nasty notices to the homes that use above some arbitrary amount of water. But the city doesn't know if there is one or ten family members residing in a home. This is overbearing on the city's part IMO. I understand the issue that people should pay for the water they use. Somehow the current billing practice doesn't match the desire to curtail excess usage, and puts undue pressure on larger families. One could even say it may be regressive billing causing those larger, (per gallon) low income families to pay higher water bills than if it were a level pricing.

No, I understood. I just think there are different ways to view it.

Before I start, I'll explain that I'm not one of those militant/snooty anti-kid types, I have 3 children of my own.

I don't want the government deciding what is 'wasting' and what isn't. If the issue is that the city needs to conserve water, then put steps in place to do it. If you have a lot of people in that house using water, that's your "problem". Your water usage choices should not get priority over my water usage choices.

You don't have to agree with me, I'm just pointing out that people will just about always argue over what is "fair", but equal is equal. I like simple - equal water rates for all. A gallon is a gallon.

-ERD50

 

[CRLLS]

A one person home could be wasting water and never see the increased pricing. I see your plan, as is the one implemented, simple. Not equal. So we do disagree. But on the subject of equal, couldn't "equal" also be defined as 50 gallons per person per day? I know it would be difficult to nearly impossible to implement or monitor. But it would also be "equal" by definition. In our area, we haven't have the serious water shortage issues that other places have. We have occasionally had controlled outside watering for lawns, car washing and the like.