indoor air pollution, Home cooking-radon test

[retire to nature]

Hi All,

Hope you all safe and stay well especially from the fires on the west coast.

We are all focused of your respiratory issue with Covid19 and Fire on the west cost right now, but I have my own home issue for my respiratory issue.

From my background, I got inherited an airbnb/shared house. It is officially 3490sq/ft built in 1896 with 4 bed rooms, but my sister was a flipper, so she made more living area which I am not sure the number. I guess about 6000sqft. all new vent line from 2015.

So, it has 11 bed rooms and 4 full bathrooms.

3 bed 1 bath on the basement. (used to be one bed only assuming for a made)
3 bed 1 bath on 1st floor (used to be a big dining room or family room)
4 bed 1 bath on 2nd floor (the original 3 bed and kitchen converted to another room)
1bed 1bath on 3rd floor (attic to room)


Sorry to say this way for my sister, she was somewhat not so much worry way or try to cut off some stuff even illegally. Since she was illegal status and no medical insurance etc, I was really concerned to manage all her probate stuff if i need to do to fit to legal way.

i can see she was thinking to place 3 hvac but now I have two hvac, and the inlet for the basement and 1st floor is located in a rented room. I found out the renter had blocked the air flow, so the air wasn't good recently.

However, realized this overpopulated house and more home cooking from pandemic makes really bad air quality. now 10 people live here but very quiet not feel like crowded. There is no complaint or anything from tenant, but since as an RN with two small dogs, I am seriously getting concerned.

When I moved into this house, I bought a radon test for the basement. It was about 1-2 range. after I found out the blockage, I found out the number was even 8. now it is 4-6. I am not sure it is correct, or I have to buy air quality tester too. But I can feel the air is very bad.

I installed the vent from microwave to outside(used to circulation indoorly) and yesterday I ordered LG purifier. i know it is good machine from S korea. it was big hit. But it will deliver 11/6. (https://www.lg.com/us/air-care-solutions/lg-AS560DWR0-air-purifier)

The air filter for HVAC wasn't bad. I often change. roomba bin lookes pick up good dust. But not much control of other rooms for open windows for air out, I am not sure what I can do. One of my former tenant freaked out covid, kept window open even though I asked to close, my utility bill was bombed at that month.

This is one of reason, I want ER asap but this house makes good money. And the area is very developing right now. Also, I have to live here because many tenants are so ignorant of home maintenance knowledge, I was worried. and I am not sure if property management company would accept. I was planning at least one or two years but my health is more important over money.

How you guys handle more home cooking. Has pandemic change your habit or air out etc?? or suggest to sell the house? Also, the radon tester says to contact professional, then what kind service will be done? I am confused that original number was low in winter time. and does it affect in summer time etc??

Thank you in advance.

 

[pacergal]

Sell
You have too many other things you are worried about.

As far as my personal home, we usually have 1 bathroom window cracked open for fresh air all year.
The only time I don't is if the AC is on.(rare)
I open our kitchen window every time I cook dinner, our exhaust fan just does not work as well as I'd like.

 

[retire to nature]

Sell
You have too many other things you are worried about.

As far as my personal home, we usually have 1 bathroom window cracked open for fresh air all year.
The only time I don't is if the AC is on.(rare)
I open our kitchen window every time I cook dinner, our exhaust fan just does not work as well as I'd like.

Maybe a good idea, but my kitchen window is too far to reach. I have to climb to the counter top and open. also, pretty much all year around ac or heater. I am thinking to set day and time for air out with all tenants once a week etc.

My stuff are not as bad think. my full time job is just time consume but I like coworkers, so still ok to hang here longer which is covered with medical insurance.
my probate is ok. just to need to know the last call from the negotiation and just more wait for court dates. I know the max number, and I can afford.
other single family properties are fine too. they pay on time. just once in a while repairs, which were managed with my handyman well.

This house was the main concern which I didnt reveal the detail much so far. even though I have good professionals or graduated university students etc., I really surprised so much lack of knowledge of home stuff.

I had one time GFCI was kicked out the light went off, so my tenant, master degree pursuing in electric major let me know. He thought fuse went off, but it was gfci, and he said, Oh to prevent it again, it has to be covered. I said, no it is safety measure so have to keep it exposed.

I am pretty good for all house maintenance way, it will be okay as long as I live. I enjoy the socialization with good tenants. and it is so good location to go Forest park in STL where I really enjoy with my dogs. So I have hesitated to sell.

 

[Leo1277]

About air quality meters, I happen to have this unit, originally bought to monitor the air in the SF Bay Area during the 2018 fires. It works very well, and while this one is currently out of stock, there are many similar ones at reasonable cost:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07D1L8TH3/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

About Radon tests, there are various different methods, the traditional one and very reliable approach is this:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003C5BZYA/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

The disadvantage is it takes a real long time. And the advantage is, it takes a real long time, because this is what matters for the actual health impact; Radon kills based on the average exposure over years, and that's what these devices are particularly good at. This is different from other air pollution, where short term spikes can be very bad.

I usually have one or two of these measuring at all times, and when the time is up, I send it in and place a new one. Nowadays there are many other devices that measure much more quickly, but many of them are said to be very inaccurate, and anyway, Radon levels fluctuate a lot from day to day, with current ventilation and weather playing major roles and what matters is the long term average. In regions where disclosures for real estate transactions require Radon data, the traditional devices may also be the only ones that are formally acceptable.

If Radon remediation is needed, it is usually a somewhat painful and complicated process, starting with carefully sealing all leaks and cracks in the basement concrete slab and walls after taking out the carpet and the wall finish, and also installing negative air pressure systems that seal the walls and concrete by some kind of permanent plastic sheathing and continuously pulling out the air that accumulates behind it. But the simple answer that fixes most of it at least at the day-to-day level for folks that live there for days or weeks instead of years is to simply provide adequate ventilation.

 

[Leo1277]

I installed the vent from microwave to outside(used to circulation indoorly) and yesterday I ordered LG purifier. i know it is good machine from S korea. it was big hit. But it will deliver 11/6. (https://www.lg.com/us/air-care-solut...0-air-purifier)

The LG air purifier is available for immediate shipping from Amazon - may want to get it there instead of from LG directly.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07JJJGL5...d-us000-pcomp-feature-pcomp-wm-8&ref=aa_pcomp

 

[Leo1277]

i can see she was thinking to place 3 hvac but now I have two hvac, and the inlet for the basement and 1st floor is located in a rented room. I found out the renter had blocked the air flow, so the air wasn't good recently.

In general it's best (and in many areas also required by code) if each bedroom has its own air return. You may want to study if something can be done, of course routing return ducts in an existing structure can be very difficult. But every additional return duct you have will help the situation, especially if somebody just blocks off one return. This not only defeats the purpose of the AC, but it may actually damage the AC since the unit expects a certain range of air flow to really work as a heat exchanger.

 

[retire to nature]

The LG air purifier from LG is available for immediate shipping from Amazon - may want to get it there instead of from LG directly.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07JJJGL5...d-us000-pcomp-feature-pcomp-wm-8&ref=aa_pcomp

Thank you for the info. I may cancel and reorder at amazon. Somewhat it didnt pop up when I checked.

 

[euro]

You should post this question on a real estate forum: www.biggerpockets.com (free membership). Very likely, you have a number of issues that you need to address, many that you may not even know about.
For example, it sounds like this is a single family home. And you are in St Louis? Many, many localities have ordinances regulating the number of unrelated individuals who may legally live in a house. For example, MY city limits occupancy to maximal 4 unrelated adults. Sounds like you should look into this for your situation. You want to be compliant with the city ordinances becasue you could get fined. Even worse, if your place burns down, your insurance may refuse payment if you were in violation of codes.
Regarding your air quality, the first thing you need to do is to stop your tenants from blocking the air return. Not only does that negatively impact your air conditioning, but it will also destroy your air handler fan, etc.
As others suggested, you may want to consider selling because the markets are really in your favor right now - that said, it sounds like you will need to address a number of issues before you can consider putting the property on the market - again, Biggerpockets can provide an excellent sounding board for that.

Check out Biggerpockets, you will find it very useful.

 

[ivinsfan]

You should post this question on a real estate forum: www.biggerpockets.com (free membership). Very likely, you have a number of issues that you need to address, many that you may not even know about.
For example, it sounds like this is a single family home. And you are in St Louis? Many, many localities have ordinances regulating the number of unrelated individuals who may legally live in a house. For example, MY city limits occupancy to maximal 4 unrelated adults. Sounds like you should look into this for your situation. You want to be compliant with the city ordinances becasue you could get fined. Even worse, if your place burns down, your insurance may refuse payment if you were in violation of codes.
Regarding your air quality, the first thing you need to do is to stop your tenants from blocking the air return. Not only does that negatively impact your air conditioning, but it will also destroy your air handler fan, etc.
As others suggested, you may want to consider selling because the markets are really in your favor right now - that said, it sounds like you will need to address a number of issues before you can consider putting the property on the market - again, Biggerpockets can provide an excellent sounding board for that.

Check out Biggerpockets, you will find it very useful.

If her place burns down and it is in codes violation, if people die, she could lose everything she owns and potentially face criminal charges. It's fine until it isn't fine and if it goes bad it's epic.

 

[Leo1277]

If her place burns down and it is in codes violation, if people die, she could lose everything she owns and potentially face criminal charges. It's fine until it isn't fine and if it goes bad it's epic.

It's a drastic way of saying it, but I was thinking along the same lines. For this and many other issues, the OP may also benefit from having an umbrella liability insurance policy covering a few million dollars. In other posts it became clear the OP has a certain distaste about insurance in general, but an umbrella policy in my opinion is something extremely useful in her situation. But one needs to study whether they would cover negligence of the policy holder, and what exactly they consider negligence; the situation of this Airbnb may not be far from where that matters. For perspective, one of my homes has a lake on the property to which others have legal access and yet others grant themselves illegal access, and I have a $3M umbrella policy just to be covered if anything happens to them.

 

[retire to nature]

Yes, of course I was worried too any liability issues from what you guys mentioned. I was seriously freaked out to concern to sell it to meet for the ordinance, so I was on hold to sell and decided to move in and closely monitor. Good thing what I found out, one house sold on the last August is located in the same district, and didn't require any city permit to sell. So, after the relief of the concern for city ordinance, I was gonna take a break about selling the house for this year for the all the fatigue.

Somehow, this house is not required occupancy permit or other ordinance . I am cautious, and my sister were not. I am the one nagging her for safety all the time, and mentioned about city permit since both of us had other properties in another city. But she said it didnt require for this house. I thought she dismissed my concern not to bother herself, but it turned out it is true.

Yes, it doesn't have any insurance now. originally she didn't have, and I was too busy and sick as well as I was afraid an insurance company reject and required to repair or improve while all of my last hectic year. She had to pass other requirement in other cities so she knew what usually require.

So everybody was saying simply to hire property management company, but I have never seen some of her houses and so wanted to keep them for a while to check. I didnt want to have more headache with property management. also, I have to cleaning this big house and get to know the house and check everything ok such as not blocked etc.

I guess my resignation for full time job has been on hold. I will have to be more insurance expert for home, auto, and medical etc. possibly pet policy too.

 

[retire to nature]

You should post this question on a real estate forum: www.biggerpockets.com (free membership). Very likely, you have a number of issues that you need to address, many that you may not even know about.
For example, it sounds like this is a single family home. And you are in St Louis? Many, many localities have ordinances regulating the number of unrelated individuals who may legally live in a house. For example, MY city limits occupancy to maximal 4 unrelated adults. Sounds like you should look into this for your situation. You want to be compliant with the city ordinances becasue you could get fined. Even worse, if your place burns down, your insurance may refuse payment if you were in violation of codes.
Regarding your air quality, the first thing you need to do is to stop your tenants from blocking the air return. Not only does that negatively impact your air conditioning, but it will also destroy your air handler fan, etc.
As others suggested, you may want to consider selling because the markets are really in your favor right now - that said, it sounds like you will need to address a number of issues before you can consider putting the property on the market - again, Biggerpockets can provide an excellent sounding board for that.

Check out Biggerpockets, you will find it very useful.

Thank you for the reply and the website.

yes the blockage is gone, and it wasn't the complete block either. My sister was the one folding the aluminium to make the vent and her/my handy man was former hvac licensee. so actually she put better efficiency than necessary due to her own concern. he suggested good vent fan on the kitchen wall but i thought too much air out could be loss of heating and cooling or forgotten by tenant to turn off. but somewhat I regret. Still can add later though. I will try with air purifier first.

Yes, i was thinking that of selling since it is hot seller market. But I have to buy or wait one of my house to move in. It has been a bit more than one month after selling house stress. I am taking a breath from more stress to jump back in.

 

[retire to nature]

About air quality meters, I happen to have this unit, originally bought to monitor the air in the SF Bay Area during the 2018 fires. It works very well, and while this one is currently out of stock, there are many similar ones at reasonable cost:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07D1L8TH3/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

About Radon tests, there are various different methods, the traditional one and very reliable approach is this:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003C5BZYA/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

The disadvantage is it takes a real long time. And the advantage is, it takes a real long time, because this is what matters for the actual health impact; Radon kills based on the average exposure over years, and that's what these devices are particularly good at. This is different from other air pollution, where short term spikes can be very bad.

I usually have one or two of these measuring at all times, and when the time is up, I send it in and place a new one. Nowadays there are many other devices that measure much more quickly, but many of them are said to be very inaccurate, and anyway, Radon levels fluctuate a lot from day to day, with current ventilation and weather playing major roles and what matters is the long term average. In regions where disclosures for real estate transactions require Radon data, the traditional devices may also be the only ones that are formally acceptable.

If Radon remediation is needed, it is usually a somewhat painful and complicated process, starting with carefully sealing all leaks and cracks in the basement concrete slab and walls after taking out the carpet and the wall finish, and also installing negative air pressure systems that seal the walls and concrete by some kind of permanent plastic sheathing and continuously pulling out the air that accumulates behind it. But the simple answer that fixes most of it at least at the day-to-day level for folks that live there for days or weeks instead of years is to simply provide adequate ventilation.

Thank you for the reply. I know it is importance of daily ventilation, I used to do more but I have forgotten lately.

I reordered thru amazon, I will use the air purifier sensor as air quality sensor. actually amazon description gave me the answer i was looking for the coverage. it is only 512 sqft. But hopefully it could be helpful.

my confusion about radon, it wasn't bad when I bought. and it wasn't bad either until i reset the machine a few days ago. so I am not sure if it is correct.

But I can just feel the air is bad possibly high PM number.

 

[Leo1277]

Thank you for the reply. I know it is importance of daily ventilation, I used to do more but I have forgotten lately.

I reordered thru amazon, I will use the air purifier sensor as air quality sensor. actually amazon description gave me the answer i was looking for the coverage. it is only 512 sqft. But hopefully it could be helpful.

This device seems to be meant for one room, or perhaps a small apartment. Also, the square foot numbers are often a bit optimistic.

Also, while it says it measures air quality, this is usually done in a very rough way with low accuracy and no specificity, and may not even measure organic compounds. I think you should get one of these dedicated devices, which break down what the problem is - particulates (smoke or dust), or various chemicals.

my confusion about radon, it wasn't bad when I bought. and it wasn't bad either until i reset the machine a few days ago. so I am not sure if it is correct.

But I can just feel the air is bad possibly high PM number.

I would just get some of these simple traditional radon meters and use them in addition to whatever else you have, they are cheap and reliable and measure what matters, the longer term average.

 

[Leo1277]

...

Yes, it doesn't have any insurance now. originally she didn't have, and I was too busy and sick as well as I was afraid an insurance company reject and required to repair or improve while all of my last hectic year. She had to pass other requirement in other cities so she knew what usually require.

So it doesn't even have regular home owner's insurance? I think this is an absolute must; although it's not clear what kind of inspections or requirements the various companies need, especially if it's a multi-user rental. Perhaps even Airbnb may have some info and suggestions on how to get their properties insured, for them it could be bad PR if things happen to their properties, so they have an interest in this as well.

I guess my resignation for full time job has been on hold. I will have to be more insurance expert for home, auto, and medical etc. possibly pet policy too.

It is better to take these things slowly and deliberately; like most other important decisions in life, all of this takes time, but it is time well spent. But in addition to the insurances you mention and the liability coverage each one brings for whatever it is tied to, you should consider one of these "umbralla" policies which increase all other liability coverage you have for individual properties etc, and even cover things that are not otherwise covered, probably including dogs.

And another thing: if you are worried that insurance companies charge too much, just buy stock in that particular company - if you are right, the stock rises and you get your overcharged premiums back. See my post on your "ready to resign" thread. Also, consider insurance companies that are not for profit. For example, I use AAA for HO, umbrella, and cars, and I think the not-for-profit status for which they are famous also extends to their insurance arm (It would be good to double check that though).