Basement: Suddenly Cold and Drafty

[mike SC]

My guess if gas heat the high limit switch is cutting it off before the temperature is satisfied and cycling. Furnace will keep running after the high limit switch cuts off the gas until it cools down blowing cool air then restarts over and over

Heat pump low on freon and cycling

 

[freedomatlast]

Ok, I wasn't going to post this (actually posted and then deleted it earlier) because it may not be the same as MK's issue, but since he now says he feels cold air from the basement vents, here it goes.

When we moved into our new (to us) all brick home, during the first winter, we commented how solid and draft free the house seemed and how evenly heated and cozy each room was, no matter where anyone was in the house......except for one bedroom upstairs. It was a good 3 to 5ºF colder in the one bedroom than anywhere else in the house. When the upstairs furnace was running, there was a small volume of slightly warm air coming from the vent. Using a pyrometer, I found that when the furnace was running, the air coming from that vent was substantially cooler than any of the other vents in any of the other rooms. When the furnace was not running, there was a noticeably cold draft coming from that vent.

One day I had enough and went into the attic and checked the balancing dampers to see if air flow was being restricted to that room, but the balancer to that room was wide open. Next, I worked my way over above the room with the cold draft, balancing on the joists . What I found under some insulation, was that probably during the home inspection before we bought the place, the inspector tripped on the flexible duct and knocked it off of the flange where it mates to the vent. I reattached and re-clamped the flexible duct to the flange on the vent and repositioned the insulation back over the vent and the mystery and problem was solved.

 

[Jerry1]

Ghosts. When they pass by you there’s a cold breeze.

 

[MichealKnight]

Update: The mystery continues

It's not ghosts. Because when I undress -- that would scare the hell out gf any ghost and they'd call ghost HQ to be sent back to purgatory or hell after seeing that. God it's a wonder I even have kids - what the heck was Wifey thinking those two times I had a shot on goal. Ugh yuck.


ANYHOW.......

1.)A "leak guy" came - he's an old man - one man show who is passionate on energy savings - 95% great reviews on how people's homes were warmer.

He spent a total of 14 hours ..... weather stripping, window sealing, etc. And SOME areas of the house are noticeably warmer so I think we'll save on oil bills and have a tad more comfort BUT - this is not the main issue GET THIS.....

He and I are in the basement. I have him stand next to me, right behind my theater recliners when I felt the breeze start. He looked at me stunned and in a somber tone said "I feel it. It's cold. I've patched up houses for 10 years now....and I have no earthly idea where this is coming from".

2.)HVAC GUY came.

He changed settings on something he called a thermostat (not the wall kind that we all adjust). He claims that was pushing out cold air and I told him - - no, I never felt cold air coming from vents other than a trickle.

I asked about ducts leaking in basement and he wouldn't check. Mind you maybe his logic was sound: He said that IF ductwork was leaking down here in the basement, you wouldn't be getting warm air upstairs.

Texting with the original "leak guy" -- he feels it's ducts .


So I'm thinking 3 things:

1.)I pay $20,000 yearly property taxes for this 6600 sq ft hellhole, and just accept my basement is unusable in the winter.


2.)Email owned of HVAC service company: They put in this WHOLE HVAC system 2 years ago when insurance paid for a new basement, due to major flood (all over town)

Plead with him that I can't have an unlivable house. Tell him I'm not blaming him, I'm not asking for free work BUT -I want him to come over, sit with me for an hour downstairs I'll even order pizza.....so he can feel the breeze and find the origins himself.


3.)Start over and call a well reviewed duct company to come look.


4.)Write something geopolitically offensive on the roof, take the family on vacation, and hope some world leader takes out the house with missile or drone. Vladd, Bibi, y you out there buddy?

So that's where it is - as usual, appreciate any comments or opinions.

I stopped sleeping in basement. At times, it's nice and warm and then other times, within a few minutes - freezing to where I gotta wear 2 sweaters and winter hat.

ALSO: On the main level - sometimes a very cold breeze is prevalent. I always thought it was bad windows ....but now I'm wondering if it's not related to this.

 

[Jerry1]

I would get one of those thermal viewers and spend time tracing the cold. Busy people aren’t going to do that - not even for a pizza.

 

[MichealKnight]

yep!

I would get one of those thermal viewers and spend time tracing the cold. Busy people aren’t going to do that - not even for a pizza.

I FORGOT TO WRITE......

I got a thermal gun. It's really cool.

I did ceilings, walls, etc......and the obvious spots like corners, windows poorly built show tons of cold. But that's not breeze, it's just cold to touch.

Much of the ceiling shows purple - which is cold -- but again I touch it, it's cold, but can't locate the breeze.

Anyhow, holiday crap is over. Parents gone back home. I"m digging back into this. I think now I need to write step hy step, every sound I hear, every furnace stage of operation I hear - -and then write when the breeze happens. Hopefully a pattern emerges.

 

[MichealKnight]

Thermal

I would get one of those thermal viewers and spend time tracing the cold. Busy people aren’t going to do that - not even for a pizza.

Jerry one more note on the thermal gun.....

It shows cold and warm - on solid surfaces.

Is there a product that should actual cool breeze -- almost as if it was animation? Because it seems that's what I'm looking for - sort of a plume or streak

 

[Jerry1]

What about one of those smoke guns or incense - something to see wind. I’m surprised the thermal meter doesn’t have any way to measure the air. Obviously, that’s what you need a thermal picture of.

To rule out a duct (hvac), turn just the fan on and keep it on and see if you feel anything. Then if no breeze, shut it off while you’re sitting in your spot (use a wifi thermostat or have someone shut it off) and see if the breeze is associated with it either being on or when it goes from off to on or vis versa.

 

[freedomatlast]

Well, it's starting to sound more and more like the issue I explained in detail back in post 27.

And when using your "thermal gun"....you need to adjust for emissivity based on the colors and textures you aim it at, or your not going to get very good or accurate results. Basically, unless you aim it at only flat black surfaces, the results won't be accurate. I don't have time to spell it all out right now, but if you do a quick Google search on emissivity, there will be plenty of information.

 

[Music Lover]

I'm perplexed as to why the source of the draft can't be located. The air is coming from somewhere.

 

[Sunset]

What about one of those smoke guns or incense - something to see wind. I’m surprised the thermal meter doesn’t have any way to measure the air. Obviously, that’s what you need a thermal picture of.

....

+1

Put some incense sticks all around (unplug smoke detectors first) and sit down and wait. If there is a leak it should move some of the smoke and you will see.

Since you seem to know it comes from the back of you in certain spots, focus there first.

 

[target2019]

2.)Email owned of HVAC service company: They put in this WHOLE HVAC system 2 years ago when insurance paid for a new basement, due to major flood (all over town)

Plead with him that I can't have an unlivable house. Tell him I'm not blaming him, I'm not asking for free work BUT -I want him to come over, sit with me for an hour downstairs I'll even order pizza.....so he can feel the breeze and find the origins himself.

This is what changed. Something installed by, or fault created by, HVAC company is causing the breeze.

You're the guy. Get a ladder, move some ceiling tiles. Be the AI! With temp gun and simple devices you can isolate this.

When either of my HVAC units go on, there is a stong draft which goes down the basement stairs. If the door at foot of stairs is not shut, it will blow open.

When HVAC starts getting ready, the initial startup can pull a lot of cold air into the system which could leak out from dislocated vents.

You want to check the supply air vents outside.

You want to check the rim joists (mentioned before). Cold air falls.

Is there insulation in the walls?

What you're going through is not atypical when large jobs are done in the home.

 

[OldShooter]

I'm perplexed as to why the source of the draft can't be located. The air is coming from somewhere.

Yes. But, importantly, it is also going somewhere. This is a zero-sum game. The cold inflows are not pressurizing the house.

So I'll repeat my suggestion from earlier: Look for places that warm air is leaving the house, thus pulling outside air in. A big outflow might well create low pressure that pulls outside air through many small and unidentifiable leaks in the foundation and the rim joists. If that is the case, you will never find them.

 

[Out-to-Lunch]

If I understand you correctly, your "thermal gun" is a point-and-shoot thermometer (technically, pyrometer) that gives you a temperature at a single point. I would suggest what I think Jerry meant at first: a thermal imaging camera or viewer, that shows you a 2D picture of IR radiation. They can oftn be rented at, say, Home Despot, or purchased for a couple hundred bucks. Did your first "leak guy" use one?

 

[Qs Laptop]

If I understand you correctly, your "thermal gun" is a point-and-shoot thermometer (technically, pyrometer) that gives you a temperature at a single point. I would suggest what I think Jerry meant at first: a thermal imaging camera or viewer, that shows you a 2D picture of IR radiation. They can oftn be rented at, say, Home Despot, or purchased for a couple hundred bucks. Did your first "leak guy" use one?

Something like this?

 

[RE2Boys]

By chance, does your basement have a radon mitigation system? Usually has a pipe or duct work that vents basement air outside. It may have a baffle or flapper that is stuck in the open position or may include a fan that is not working They are somewhat common in some areas of PA.

 

[Out-to-Lunch]

Something like this?

No, you can get a camera with an actual 2D image or picture:

Cheap one from Hazard Fraught:
https://www.harborfreight.com/thermal-camerainfrared-digital-imaging-thermometer-58111.html

Or from Klein: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Klein-Tools-Rechargeable-Thermal-Imaging-Camera-TI250-TI250/313993285#overlay


Or get something from FLIR, the industry leader. In addition to their stand-alone units, they have something that plugs into your smart phone:
https://www.flir.com/products/flir-one-gen-3/?vertical=condition+monitoring&segment=solutions

 

[HarveyS]

Is there a pipe or electical chase in or near an outside wall? One of my prior homes had a pipe chase to the second floor from the basement. There was no insulation in-between the joists where the chase was. This was not an outside wall, but close to it. Easy-peasy, I grabbed some fiberglass and stuffed the joist. Problem solved. Fast forward 2 years, super cold night, and upstairs bath has no water. Oops. Frozen pipe. The builder knew they needed to keep warm air moving along those pipes. I had to take out the insulation and live with the cool breezes.

 

[MichealKnight]

Thanks for the answers to those who came in later. Question

Is it possible that a duct(s) is broken, and - it leaks cold hair because it's broken----and then that cold air is coming into the basement not from a single hole but maybe thru the usual cracks/borders in the false ceiling tiles?

Thanks