Introduction: Pondering ER

Shawn

Recycles dryer sheets
Joined
Jan 11, 2007
Messages
398
I've been reading this forum for the last few months and officially registered a few days ago. The following is a brief introduction (well, I guess it isn't so brief).

First, I'm 47, single with no dependents except for pets, live in the suburbs of the San Francisco Bay Area, and hope to ER sometime between 10 minutes and 6 years from now. I've been a research scientist at a large government laboratory for the past 15.5 years (in school or the equivalent before that).

Based on the methodology outlined in previous threads, my net worth is a little over 2M (680K non retirement accounts + 300K retirement accounts + 600K pension + 550K house - 110K mortgage + 10K misc). I'm a relatively conservative investor (65% equities, 15% bonds, 20% cash or equivalent).

I consider myself a frugal person. In fact, some people here might prefer the words deprived, cheap, or stingy. My expenses over the last 6 years have averaged about 30K/yr (12K mortgage + 3K property taxes + 2K utilities + 1K house maintenance + 0.5K home insurance + 0.5K auto insurance + 1K auto expenses + 3K charity + 1K other gifts + 6K general living and recreation expenses). That's been pretty constant, except for 25K in veterinary bills two years ago.

My income (salary) is currently about 180K/yr, and it has significantly increased since 1995 (i.e., 72K in 1995; 115K in 2000). My expenses to salary ratio is about 16%. Minus 50K taxes, I'm currently able to save/invest about 100K/yr.

Although I've been thinking about ER for the last 7 years, I'm more motivated today because I hate my job. It has been immensely stressful and unrewarding over the past several years and it has taken a physical toll. I have headaches and wake up in the middle of the night with dread. I've gained more weight than desired over the last two years (my fault, of course). The technical work itself is quite interesting, but there is a crap level that is unbearable. Much of this is caused by a management structure that means well but is grossly incompetent. We are a government organization so there is no need or profit motive to eliminate bureaucratic and other waste. They cause far more problems then they solve. I cost over 3 times my salary, with most of my time spent doing meaningless drivel. Your tax dollars at work.

I will not get medical and dental unless I wait until 50 to ER. However, there are many complexities and other scenario's that could change this.

I'm interested in this forum for several reasons. I enjoy many of the financial discussions. More so, it is beneficial to get multiple perspectives and experiences about ER. I'm probably in the 99th percentile with respect to the amount of time I currently spend at my job, so I don't know how ER will impact me.

I have a long career history as an earthquake seismologist (contact me if you want more information) and don't know if this will cause a sense of loss and depression. For example, in my current job I have the opportunity to use the fastest computers in the world. That said, I do most of the interesting work on my own time. I get paid to do crap. I accomplish meaningful objectives at night or on weekends and holidays. In ER, I may be able to continue some of the enjoyable work by accepting an unfunded position at a nearby university (e.g., UC Berkeley).

Likewise, I may enjoy "being bored" in ER because there is pleasure and a sense of accomplishment from doing those mundane activities that can take up a day (raking leaves, going to the hardware store to get a thingymagig, buying an ice cream cone, changing a light bulb, reading a magazine, etc). I'm physically active (running, bicycling, hiking, backpacking, etc) so there would be more time for these activities. I enjoy road trips, but in the past always have been in a hurry to get from Point A to Point B. I'd like to start spending a few minutes on side trips to see the "biggest ball of yarn in the world." A dream is to summit Mt. Everest. Mostly, I believe the most enjoyable part of ER would come from knowing that I no longer need to go to work and can enjoy Sunday evenings. Freedom to do what I want, when I want.

That's me in a much longer than intended nutshell. I don't have any particular questions or comments at this time except for, "What the heck are dryer sheets, anyway?"
 
Welcome to the board, Shawn.

Have you read Scott Berkun's essays? You'd appreciate his perspective on a number of areas, but here's his advice for a bad boss:
"The best advice for having a bad manager is to seek other employment. Don’t undervalue your happiness: it’s impossible to be happy if you work directly for someone you can’t stand. It may be difficult to find another job, but if you are willing to make compromises in other areas (salary, position, project, location, etc.) it will certainly be possible. Being happy and underpaid is a much better way to spend a life than unhappy and anything else."

Shawn said:
I will not get medical and dental unless I wait until 50 to ER. However, there are many complexities and other scenario's that could change this.
You may see medical & dental as an obstacle to ER, but perhaps it's better treated like just another utility bill. Estimate the expense of health insurance in your area, take a high-deductible policy, and cost it out until you're eligible for Medicare. You may find that you have plenty of assets to make it. Many ERs don't even carry dental insurance.

You may also find that places like UC Berkeley could help subsidize the cost of healthcare.

You don't sound like you'll have any problem finding things to do all day. What's of a much greater concern, however, is the toxic effect your current environment is having on your health. You're already financially independent, and I suspect that's the case even if you're buying your own health insurance.

So... plug some more numbers and answer your own question: What are you waiting for?
 
Shawn said:
I've been reading this forum for the last few months...

47...

single with no dependents...

hope to ER sometime between 10 minutes and 6 years from now...

conservative investor (65% equities, 15% bonds, 20% cash or equivalent).

frugal...

expenses to salary ratio is about 16%.

more motivated today because I hate my job.

immensely stressful and unrewarding over the past several years and it has taken a physical toll.

I've gained more weight than desired over the last two years (my fault, of course).

The technical work itself is quite interesting, but there is a crap level that is unbearable.

management structure that means well but is grossly incompetent.

I will not get medical and dental

long career history

don't know if this will cause a sense of loss and depression.

I may enjoy "being bored" in ER because there is pleasure and a sense of accomplishment from doing those mundane activities that can take up a day

enjoy road trips, but in the past always have been in a hurry to get from Point A to Point B. I'd like to start spending a few minutes on side trips to see the "biggest ball of yarn in the world."


Very scary. The part I have snipped above is me, right down to my friends teasing me about me being willing to travel to see attractions like the "World's Biggest Ball of Yarn" on some of my road trips. (No, haven't actually seen that one!)

Say, are you secretly someone from work spoofing me? :eek: :LOL:

Assuming not (!), I can't do much to help you except to say: "Welcome Aboard" , and I'll be listening to hear what people have to share with you, because much of it would likely apply to me, too.

:)

ballotwineyw4.jpg


:LOL:

Oh, and 'dryer sheets' is a local meme regarding people who are considering FI/RE being frugal, and having little habits like re-using dryer sheets more than once; hence the idea of a hierarchy of rank based on mastery of dryer sheet principles. ::)
 
Hi Shawn:

I'm a cagy person so perhaps my own defensiveness/reticence is showing here....but do you really want to publish your real name and net worth, your employer (not explicitly stated, but easy to guess) and your general location?

Winnie
 
Likewise, I may enjoy "being bored" in ER because there is pleasure and a sense of accomplishment from doing those mundane activities that can take up a day (raking leaves, going to the hardware store to get a thingymagig, buying an ice cream cone, changing a light bulb, reading a magazine, etc).

I find I enjoy mundane activities immensely. I enjoy cleaning up the kitchen, puttering in the yard, and rolling around on the floor with the dogs. I doubt you will be bored.
 
winnie said:
Hi Shawn:

I'm a cagy person so perhaps my own defensiveness/reticence is showing here....but do you really want to publish your real name and net worth, your employer (not explicitly stated, but easy to guess) and your general location?

Winnie

Yes, I agree.

Mods, if Shawn is not on line should you do some judicial editing to protect his identity until he can consider this?
 
winnie said:
I'm a cagy person so perhaps my own defensiveness/reticence is showing here....but do you really want to publish your real name and net worth, your employer (not explicitly stated, but easy to guess) and your general location?
F M All said:
Mods, if Shawn is not on line should you do some judicial editing to protect his identity until he can consider this?
My goodness, imagine if people on this board knew our real names! Although bad things can happen anywhere, I've noticed that the main reaction to uncloaking is... apathy.

Shawn seems to be familiar with discussion boards and cyberspace nakedness. He can edit the post if he chooses.

Of course on Monday he could be having a really interesting conversation with his manager, who might be one of this board's other Bay-Area posters...
 
I agree with all that has been said so far. I would add/question the following.
Are you retiring for the right reasons? It doesn't sound like it so far. I get the sense it is because you just don't like your boss and other negative reasons. You should want to RE for positive reasons - The RE life is more appealing than the working life.

I would guess from that your work history you have have some very cerebral interests that might be difficult to fulfill in RE. You should think and plan for how you will satisfy those interest.

You are in a good place with time to decide. Once you decided that you really want to leave you will even have more options because you don't have anything to loose.
 
Shawn, I'd be really tempted to stick to 50 just for the health insurance. That issue scares me a lot, and Medicare is a long way away.

It sure sounds like you've got the finances covered, even after the price of a trip up Everest.

You sound pretty employable -- could you get a job you'd like if you retired and decided you didn't like it?

Or better yet, how about a year leave of absence? You could practice for retirement.

Coach
 
Coach said:
Shawn, I'd be really tempted to stick to 50 just for the health insurance. That issue scares me a lot, and Medicare is a long way away.

It sure sounds like you've got the finances covered, even after the price of a trip up Everest.

You sound pretty employable -- could you get a job you'd like if you retired and decided you didn't like it?

Or better yet, how about a year leave of absence? You could practice for retirement.

Coach

I just realized that if I had health care 'in the bag', I would probably make Monday my last work day. :eek:
 
Nords said:
Shawn seems to be familiar with discussion boards

Nords, you may be right, and Shawn is an adult, but where did you get this impression?
 
F M All said:
Nords, you may be right, and Shawn is an adult, but where did you get this impression?
From his post-- the same place you got the impression that he's an adult!
 
Hi, Shawn,

Welcome!

Nords said...
You may see medical & dental as an obstacle to ER, but perhaps it's better treated like just another utility bill. Estimate the expense of health insurance in your area, take a high-deductible policy, and cost it out until you're eligible for Medicare. You may find that you have plenty of assets to make it. Many ERs don't even carry dental insurance.

You may also find that places like UC Berkeley could help subsidize the cost of healthcare.

Shawn, let me emphasize that Nords is talking about an individual health insurance policy. You should go to an independent insurance broker to get one. Check into it. Read more on the subject on this board in several places. Use the search function.

I read some of the articles in the paper Shawn referenced, talking about The Big One. "No place in the San Francisco Bay area is safe." I am thinking that maybe Shawn may be considering moving from the area? ::) If that is true, when you check out private health insurance, ask about what to do if you move.

Coach had a good suggestion. When was the last time you took a vacation? Can you take longer ones? That is, if you only get 3 weeks a year, can you take longer ones or more than one without pay? It seems like you can afford to do so. Use these vacations to research a place you might want to relocate to.

Think about what you would do with your time, too. Don't forget social life. For someone single who has been stuck in one place for a long time, it may seem daunting, but make it your job to figure it out.

Maybe you could check out, take a break, then come back as a contractor. Minimizes office politics, too. Having experience with the world's fastest (this week, at least) computers must be a marketable skill.

I got the impression this was a bad week for you. Listen to a little Jimmy Buffett and cruise the Escape Artist web site (but don't buy anything!).

Cheers,

Gypsy
 
How do we know Shawn is really Shawn, and not someone trying to screw with him by posting his name in an "I hate my boss and my work" thread?
 
jphripjah said:
How do we know Shawn is really Shawn, and not someone trying to screw with him by posting his name in an "I hate my boss and my work" thread?

Niccolo, I thought you died in 1527.
 
F M All said:
Niccolo, I thought you died in 1527.

You're right. I'm a natural cynic, but this would be a pretty absurd way to try to undermine your enemies. It 's much easier just to put porn on their work computers.

Shawn, tell us something only the real Shawn would know, so that we know you're you.
 
F M,

Judging from his pay rate, HE may be the boss.

And, there are the other details. I accept him as shown.

But, good point. Annonymization would remove that question.

Shawn, tell us something only the real Shawn would know, so that we know you're you.
:LOL: :LOL: Yeah. Where is your tattoo?
 
Ed_The_Gypsy said:
F M,

Judging from his pay rate, HE may be the boss.

Every flea has another flea on his back to bite him!!

[My dad used to say this - does anybody here know where it comes from?]
 
F M All said:
Every flea has another flea on his back to bite him!!
[My dad used to say this - does anybody here know where it comes from?]
Yeah, I heard this a lot when I was growing up too. From Wikipedia:

The 17th century writer Jonathan Swift mocked the idea of self-similarity in natural philosophy with the following ditty:
"So nat'ralists observe, a flea
Hath smaller fleas that on him prey,
And these have smaller fleas that bite 'em,
And so proceed ad infinitum."

Which was itself parodied by the Victorian era mathematician Augustus De Morgan:
"Great fleas have little fleas upon their backs to bite 'em,
And little fleas have lesser fleas, and so ad infinitum.
And the great fleas themselves, in turn, have greater fleas to go on,
While these again have greater still, and greater still, and so on."
 
Nords, thanks.

I had misty-eyed moment seeing that. Dad died in 1972 and Mum last August, products of a totally different time and place................
 
Nords said:
I've noticed that the main reaction to uncloaking is... apathy.

True, but only after a brief flurry of googling and zillowing. BTW, what is that large complex across the street from you? ;)
 
wab said:
True, but only after a brief flurry of googling and zillowing. BTW, what is that large complex across the street from you? ;)
That would be our next-door neighbor, the sewage booster station for the plant across the gulch...
 
Thank you everyone for responding to my introduction post. I was afraid no one would respond and I would feel unloved. :) Rather than separate reply's, here is a general reply to comments and questions.

I have considered foregoing employer medical coverage by retiring today at 47 instead of waiting until 50. I obtained a policy quote last year just to get an idea about costs. A high deductible policy probably would be appropriate since the last time I've taken a "sick day" was 37 years ago back in the 4th grade. Still, having employer provided medical coverage is very desirable. My current benefits and pension are with the University of California, which may have the most sound system in the country. This coverage is likely to change in October when we go to a different contractor (no longer UC). The details won't be known for a few months.

From a purely financial perspective, I could retire today and have a SWR that is greater than my current expenses (even if paying my own health coverage). However, as a conservative person who must depend entirely on myself, a cushion is desired. I do not know what will happen in the future (e.g., my mother is not very fiscally prudent and I may need to provide her with future funds). The size of this cushion is not known, but the perspectives from people in this forum are interesting.

There are alternatives that could work. For example, around August 1 of this year, I conceivably could go half-time and use a combination of sick leave and vacation time to take me to age 50. I may need to convince a psychiatrist that I'm "mentally unstable" and in need of medical leave. That shouldn't be too difficult. :crazy: But seriously, there are various "sweet spots" in the next 3-5 years where ER could be timely.

No Nords, I have not read Scott Berkun's essays (except for the link you provided). However, I am quite familiar with the concept "employees don't leave jobs, they leave managers." My situation is complex. I have multiple managers, or multiple fleas biting me on the back (after all, we are a government organization). I have considered finding another position at my own organization, but mostly, I'm hoping that the person who is my official legal supervisor, but has nothing to do with my work, will leave.

I've been thinking about ER since I was 40, when a 49 year old member of my bicycle club said that he was about to retire. I never gave the subject much previous thought, but this got me thinking about leaving work sometime between 50 and 53. Hence, my desire to ER is not caused by my current toxic work environment, although this environment is certainly making me reevaluate my situation and see if I can hurry the process. So yes, dex, I believe the ER life will be much more enjoyable for me than the working life. Having never been there, though, I can't be certain.

In my present position, Coach, it would be difficult to take a leave of absence. However, I have considered this. My organization offers paid sabbaticals, but I then would be obligated to work at least two years following my return. If anything, I might take an unpaid leave of absence at 49 and then retire the day I returned at 50.

To answer your questions Ed_The_Gypsy, I've taken only 8 days of vacation in the last 15 years (no need to respond because I know what you will say). No. I have no immediate plans to move from the Bay Area. In terms of earthquakes, there are natural hazards everywhere and earthquakes do not worry me. And if you are interested, I do not have earthquake insurance. This is a decision based both on personal considerations and scientific judgement. To each his own, however.

Thank you DRiP Guy for the explanation about dryer sheets. That makes a lot of sense. If I was willing to fork over the money for dryer sheets in the first place, I'd reuse them too. I haven't seen the biggest ball of yarn either, although it's first on my list, right after Everest. No. I'm not someone from your work spoofing you, but perhaps we are long lost twins since we have so much in common.

I appreciate your (winnie, F M All, Martha) concerns about the google reference that includes my full name. Nords is correct that I'm knowledgeable about discussion boards and the internet ("I've been using the internet before any of you were even in diapers, or make that investing your 401's in diaper-based sector funds" :)). I'm not a private person and items such as my salary are public information. There are risks in everything we do. The point that I was trying to make with the google reference was that my career has been built on a lot of effort and hard work. There is a lot of self worth here. ER will mean that this will be gone. It's not something I can easily get back if I don't like ER.

Still, I realize that each discussion board has it's own character and I don't see too many other people here who have revealed their full names. So I will consider altering my post.

As for my management, Nords, they are already familiar with my opinions. For example, in my own input to last years performance appraisal, when I was asked to list the problems I experienced during the year, I wrote, "[Management] is an arrogant hypocritical micromanaging organization that interferes with and hinders technical progress. They do not and in fact refuse to hold themselves accountable for their own actions. They hold themselves to different standards than they require of employees. Do as I say, not as I do." I received a 15% raise. Is their no justice? Recently, I communicated to my supervisor, "I can't believe management can be so incompetent and fiscally irresponsible." I'm going for the 20% raise this year.

Yes jphripjah, you're correct. It's possible that I could be posting under a false name. I don't know how to alleviate this paranoid schizophrenic delusion quite valid concern of yours. Unfortunately, I don't have a tattoo. Hmmm ... I know. My lucky number is 3. Now how would I know this if I wasn't me?

Thank you all for your responses. They were great.
 
Shawn. It is time to take at least a month off from work and assess your options. Because you have not taken vacation time I would think it would be helpful to try taking a chunk of time off.
 

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