investments

[donheff]

I guess the answer to that is that my husband manages the accounts and he's lazy.

I would have done what you did but I had to contend with my husband and his advisor. I remember yelling, when the DOW was 14,000 - "There's no upside!" but my husband believes in all the platitudes - "I'm in it for the long run" etc.

I don't know what to make of your posts -- they are contradictory. Does your husband really manage all of your accounts? If so, as a buy and hold guy who "believes all the platitudes" he would not have sold at 7000? Or did you badger him out of his sensible approach and precipitate the crisis? If he had actually held fast while you screamed you would be in pretty darn good shape today. If you drove him out maybe you should actually turn the reins over to him, tell him to stick to his guns and turn off the TV.

 

[REWahoo]

Things did go back up in the last 2 years but why? A lot of it is manipulation - keeping interest rates artificially low propped up the stock market and probably real estate too. There are more people (including the government) who are debtors than people trying to live off of savings and the interests (no pun intended) of the big banks lie in low interest rates so that's what we have.

Just because things went up again doesn't mean they should have or will stay up. We're still in a recession, nothing's really getting better and now we have oil shocks and the Japan situation to worry about but the market is still staying up.

Some people aren't cut out for the ups and downs of the market. It appears as though you are in that category. Doubt there is anything we can say to help beyond what's been said by Ha, brewer and a few others.

 

[amazon1]

Husband manages accounts and I badgered him to get out. I think we lost a lot of money by pulling out then but we got the bulk of our money after that and we may end up ahead by not losing money in the future. Haha - our son is 16 - not sure where the confusion is there.

 

[sheehs1]

I don't know what to make of your posts -- they are contradictory. Does your husband really manage all of your accounts? If so, as a buy and hold guy who "believes all the platitudes" he would not have sold at 7000? Or did you badger him out of his sensible approach and precipitate the crisis? If he had actually held fast while you screamed you would be in pretty darn good shape today. If you drove him out maybe you should actually turn the reins over to him, tell him to stick to his guns and turn off the TV.

ummm.all easy to say in hindsite.
I remember...at DOW 7000 even the platitudes of the financial planners were broken. You have to admit even they were in shock...particularly at Fannie and Freddie. One told me if they fail...then we are all in trouble. I was able to get my daughters Fannie notes out in May before they caved in. Of course the broker laughed at me when I said "I think Fannie and Freddie are going to fail".

Also at Dow 7000..they were "calling" for Dow 4000. I know people that cashed out at Dow 7000 hoping to not loose almost 50% more of what they had.

Are there lessons...in what happened. Absolutely. If you weren't "out" before it crashed...better to hold on.

I suppose my mantra...is preserve capital at all cost. Not so different from Warren Buffets' "Never loose money" statement.

 

[amfox1]

Wondering why everyone else thinks 3.5% is a good benchmark in these times.

I believe you took this from my response to OP in the "New Yorker: rich by most standards, but can I really FIRE?" thread, who stated "Very, very, (very) conservative investor. Hate stocks. With interest rates this crazy low, can't find a safe investment to generate income necessary to live in this area with 3 kids, particularly after inflation."

I estimated that OP in that thread could get 3.5% return. My thought (unstated in that thread) was that OP could invest in high-quality bonds and government securities and avoid equities. Vanguard Short Term Investment Grade Fund - Admiral (VFSUX) has a 5 year return of 5%. Other bond funds have similar returns. Obviously, these are not risk free, guaranteed returns.

If OP in this thread is looking for no risk at all, then find FDIC insured bank accounts. I think I would trust in the federal credit of the United States, at least over the next few years.

 

[donheff]

Husband manages accounts and I badgered him to get out. I think we lost a lot of money by pulling out then but we got the bulk of our money after that and we may end up ahead by not losing money in the future.

If your husband stuck to his guns you would be better off today. But you are assuming you saved your husband's and your bacon because there is worse to come. OK, if so, stay the heck out. Buy an annuity or laddered CDs.

ummm.all easy to say in hindsite.
I remember...at DOW 7000 even the platitudes of the financial planners were broken. You have to admit even they were in shock...

I suppose my mantra...is preserve capital at all cost. Not so different from Warren Buffets' "Never loose money" statement.

The planners are always in shock when there is a big drop - 1987, 2000, 2008. Why is that some sort of signal to bail? -- it was a bad signal each time.

Warren Buffet says personal investors should buy and hold low cost index funds. Like Amazon, if you are going to panic when things get bad you should not be in the market.

 

[HFWR]

Just because things went up again doesn't mean they should have or will stay up. We're still in a recession, nothing's really getting better and now we have oil shocks and the Japan situation to worry about but the market is still staying up.

Granted, there are lots of headwinds out there, but the economy is growing, thus no recession, corporate profits are good, lots of cash on corporate balance sheets, unemployment is falling, albeit slowly.

Cash is "safe" in the short run, but very unlikely to keep up with inflation in the long run. How about 33% cash, 33% short-term bonds, and 33% stocks?

 

[amazon1]

Amfox - what's the Admiral fund 1-year return? Is the 5% including rates a couple of years ago when you could get 5% on no-risk CDs?

 

[amazon1]

Corporate profits are good because they've laid-off so many people. The 80% of people who still have jobs have gone back to spending like they have nothing to worry about. I don't really know if this "recovery" has legs. When states and municipalities start laying off teachers, etc. en masse, we could have a double dip.

 

[BigNick]

I'm afraid my troll-o-meter has started to twitch here.

 

[FinanceDude]

Corporate profits are good because they've laid-off so many people. The 80% of people who still have jobs have gone back to spending like they have nothing to worry about. I don't really know if this "recovery" has legs. When states and municipalities start laying off teachers, etc. en masse, we could have a double dip.

So let me get this straight, you are worried about inflation, don't want to take any risk, let your lazy husband manage the money, but end all those posts with an economic report straight from MSNBC? That's funny, but not ha-ha funny..........

 

[HFWR]

Corporate profits are good because they've laid-off so many people. The 80% of people who still have jobs have gone back to spending like they have nothing to worry about. I don't really know if this "recovery" has legs. When states and municipalities start laying off teachers, etc. en masse, we could have a double dip.

Some would call this "creative destruction"...

I'm afraid my troll-o-meter has started to twitch here.

 

[brewer12345]

So let me get this straight, you are worried about inflation, don't want to take any risk, let your lazy husband manage the money, but end all those posts with an economic report straight from MSNBC? That's funny, but not ha-ha funny..........

Oh, I think its pretty funny. We just need to get her some valium and maybe a shiny hat.

 

[Nords]

Amfox - what's the Admiral fund 1-year return? Is the 5% including rates a couple of years ago when you could get 5% on no-risk CDs?

Corporate profits are good because they've laid-off so many people. The 80% of people who still have jobs have gone back to spending like they have nothing to worry about. I don't really know if this "recovery" has legs. When states and municipalities start laying off teachers, etc. en masse, we could have a double dip.

You seem to be focusing on a series of individual events that cause you stress and make you feel that the stock market isn't an appropriate place to invest.

Several posters have recommended that you educate yourself on ways to either cope with the market's random walk or to avoid it altogether. You haven't appeared to express any interest in the books or websites that would help.

If you're not going to educate yourself then you'll continue to bounce from one economic concern to another, never finding any reason to invest. If education seems "too hard" then at least look at the Bogleheads.org practice of putting some of your assets in a total stock market index fund, some in a total bond market index fund, and some in cash. Then you can get on with your life without having to be hypervigilant every time an economist utters some dire prediction.

"Yeah but now isn't the time to invest in those" is the wrong answer. There's never a good time to invest. It's always fraught with concern. You need to find a way to keep those concerns from getting in the way of your ability to find a way to invest that overcomes the real concerns of emotional distress and the years of inflation that will occur during your retirement.

Otherwise you surely do need to spend your time investigating annuities and financial managers who will relieve you of the burden and the responsibility.

If you're not pursuing the resources to help you educate yourself then you're likely to encounter fewer posters on this board willing to offer assistance & support... and more posters who are skeptical that they're being spammed/trolled. This board gets a lot of the spam & trolls.

 

[JBmadera]

I understand your fear but as others have pointed out the best weapon to combat fear is knowledge. Check out the Bogleheads;

Bogleheads Investing Advice and Info

good luck!

 

[amazon1]

I think I'm pretty informed. I have an MA in Economics for one thing and read the Times and WSJ daily and have read quite a few current books on the economic situation. Why am I a troll? Not even sure what that is. Perhaps it's good to have someone new on your forum with a slightly different point of view.

I don't think investing is good now. I'm not sure what the problem is with a little give-and-take on the subject. If you find it uniformative unsubscribe.

I think I'm going to stay in FDIC insured bank accounts. Does anyone have any tips on how to find the ones with the best interest and keep track of the accounts? Thanks for the tip above - I'm going to investigate what we have to do to make sure we are set in case of a default.

 

[HFWR]

I think I'm pretty informed. I have an MA in Economics for one thing and read the Times and WSJ daily and have read quite a few current books on the economic situation. Why am I a troll? Not even sure what that is. Perhaps it's good to have someone new on your forum with a slightly different point of view.

I don't think investing is good now. I'm not sure what the problem is with a little give-and-take on the subject. If you find it uniformative unsubscribe.

I think I'm going to stay in FDIC insured bank accounts. Does anyone have any tips on how to find the ones with the best interest and keep track of the accounts? Thanks for the tip above - I'm going to investigate what we have to do to make sure we are set in case of a default.

Takes all kinds. We have indexers, active traders, all-cashers, rental real estate-ers, gold [-]bugs[/-] investors... And we're ALL right!

You may be correct that "investing" is not good now. I would counter with selling at the low, and missing the rebound, wasn't a particularly good strategy either, but it's not my money.

Just like the "end-of-the world" predictions, some day they'll be correct...

As for CD rates, you might try this: Mortgage Rates Credit Cards Refinance Home CD Rates by Bankrate.com

 

[calmloki]

Ok. I'm pretty open minded and Pollyanna-like in wanting to believe the best of people, but this is larded on a bit too thick even for me.

"I have an MA in Economics for one thing and read the Times and WSJ daily and have read quite a few current books on the economic situation".

There is no safe haven. Stocks, bonds, FDIC insured instruments, gold, fiat currencies, underground granaries - it doesn't matter. There is always risk. War, plague, alien invasion. Why do you think FDIC is a panacea? What makes you trust our government? wurra wurra wurra - the world is coming to an end.

 

[donheff]

I think I'm pretty informed. I have an MA in Economics for one thing and read the Times and WSJ daily and have read quite a few current books on the economic situation. Why am I a troll? Not even sure what that is. Perhaps it's good to have someone new on your forum with a slightly different point of view.

"My husband handles all the investments." "I badgered him to bail at the bottom." "I have an MBA in Economics." Yeah, right. Absolute and total troll. But you were fun for a whole 13 posts.

 

[RetiredGypsy]

War, plague, alien invasion.

We're at war with one group or another, my throat feels a little ticklish, and the Minutemen are screaming about alien invasion at the border here. It's already upon us!

 

[sheehs1]

The planners are always in shock when there is a big drop - 1987, 2000, 2008. Why is that some sort of signal to bail? -- it was a bad signal each time.

Warren Buffet says personal investors should buy and hold low cost index funds. Like Amazon, if you are going to panic when things get bad you should not be in the market.

I hear you ...but....I happen to believe 2008 was different from the rest. It was not until 1999...the the Glass Steagle Act and not until (around 2000)...that the Derivatives Acts were passed....which paved the way for the greed and the destruction. There was real and measurable fear about another Great Depression. Neither 1987 or 2000 conjured that up.
Where in 1987 and 2000 did major financial firms fail? (aside from the credit union crisis of the 1980's - which still did not bring the financial markets to a standstill? although they did have to form a Resolution Trust Corporation - Good credit union/Bad credit union)

Warren Buffet says a lot of things...but again...his number 1 rule is to never loose money..is it not? Doesn't mean you won't loose some in one asset class..just overall...

I don't consider it panic...to gently ..."move out of the way" of headwinds.
I suppose it is a matter of perspective. Some will call it dumb - some will call it smart. Heck...every financial planner I know...sits there all day moving HIS/HER own money around depending on the markets. They just don't do it for their clients.

It seems to boil down to this. If you want to keep up with inflation in some way ...then play it safe with Treasuries, CD laddering...etc. If you want your money to make you money you have to take on some risk with some percentage of what you have. (and even that risk can be a calculated risk).

 

[calmloki]

SELL SELL SELL!!!!!

YouTube - The Doors-The End [FULL]

 

[amazon1]

I think you people have too much time on your hands to just attack strangers on the internet. Calmloki - What is larded on so thickly that even a pollyanna would think I was a terrible person? Can you please reread my post and your post and see if that was an appropriate response? Is having a graduate degree in the field in question and keeping up on a daily basis not an appropriate response to the "educate yourself"? Take anger management classes.

And donheff - please define troll. I also think many people got out at the bottom and it wasn't necessarilly an uninformed decision.

 

[amazon1]

Troll: One who purposely and deliberately (that purpose usually being self-amusement) starts an argument in a manner which attacks others on a forum without in any way listening to the arguments proposed by his or her peers. He will spark of such an argument via the use of ad hominem attacks (i.e. 'you're nothing but a fanboy' is a popular phrase) with no substance or relevence to back them up as well as straw man arguments, which he uses to simply avoid addressing the essence of the issue.

I believe I've listened to the arguments and given counter-arguments. Seems like those who have accused me of being a troll are actually trolls - ad-hominem attacks, etc.

 

[W2R]

Amazon1, you asked for a definition of trolling.

From our Community Rules, which every member must read and abide by,

Trolling or cyber-bullying are NOT allowed and are grounds for account restriction or banishment. Trolling on this board includes posting controversial and often irrelevant or off-topic messages with the intention of (or anticipated result of) baiting other users into an emotional response or to generally disrupt normal, harmonious on-topic discussion, especially when a pattern of such posting is apparent.