It's official we are all wrong about fire

daylatedollarshort said:
Most of the posters on the Reddit FI forum actually seem pretty reasonable in terms of savings and expectations. Many are tech workers who have very high salaries and are choosing FI over a high consumption lifestyle. Most aren't selling anything so they aren't pushing an unrealistically low cost lifestyle or savings amount just to attract followers like some of the fake ER bloggers.
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They get free food from work too. What’s not to like.
 
I haven’t heard such a good old fashioned personal finance scolding since a 2003 Public Television Pledge Week!
 
As long as you have your liabilities like healthcare and auto/home insurance covered you can control your expenses. If you add to your net worth every year with any type of investments you can’t lose. When I retired at 34 eighteen years ago I had about half of what I have now.
I like DR and Suze but realize their fan base has very basic financial knowledge and like most people not very good self control.
 
she seems really out of touch - does she not know anyone personally who retired early with less than $5M?

what credibility does she have with regard to retirement consulting? Is she a CFP or some type of FA? Is she a retirement plan actuary or consultant?
 
She is an entertainer, nothing more
 
I am listening to the podcast now. Most people will never accumulate the $5M+ she is talking about. And I don't need to live on a private island or fly a private jet. No way could I afford $30K/month of nursing home care (what the heck!) no matter how long I work, sorry. Of course bad things can happen, whether you are FIRE or not. You try and insure for the big risks, but you can't control everything. You only have a finite amount of time to LIVE, and the ability to do with your days as you please is a benefit that she doesn't seem to understand.
 
Helena said:
.

Oh dear, I broke all the experts' rules. I retired early at age 55 with only half a million. In the past 11 years of comfortable retirement, that has almost doubled.

.
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+1.
Yep, it is possible. Many do not believe it, but it is possible.
 
Helena said:
I am a single retiree who lives totally debt-free [including my house] in a less expensive part of the country. In the 11 years I've been retired I have lived comfortably on a lot less than $30,000 a year.

If one wanted to live like a king in retirement, several million dollars would be necessary.

But I've never lived like a king in my life. So I am more than satisfied with living a similar normal comforable life in retirement as I was living while I was working... with one major exception... I am now FREE to be my own boss, the captain of my own ship... and that blessing is priceless !!

.
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Well done. +1.
 
I think many folks here are being far too harsh on Suze.

Personally, overall, I don't like her. However, you need to understand that Suze is on par with Dave Ramsey - there is a swath of the population who can use and will find what she provides extremely valuable. Others, who are financially astute, and can confidently model/plan their own financial needs in the future may find Suze to be of no help. For many folks who aren't able to do it on their own and don't want to take the time and pay to sit down with a financial advisor, Suze is accessible - flip on your local PBS station, and at least once a week there is an hour or two of Suze giving free advice, from the comfort of your home.

As a result of being famous, her views are polarizing to many folks. At the end of the day, the information she's providing isn't going to get you in trouble financially and for most folks who have difficulty when it comes to financial topics, it will help them. In this specific case of FIRE, well, she's being very conservative in my view - but there's really nothing wrong with that. She's provided her reasoning to support her view.

As the FIRE movement has grown recently, I think she's simply trying to bring a little reality in to the picture for those "younger folks" who wake up one morning, are tired of going to work (after a career of no more than 10 or 15 years), see they have $1 million in total assets, and think they can retire. I've seen this a number of times recently with new posters who are in their 30s asking "Can I retire?" and putting up numbers that total around $1 million. I think a lot of what we're seeing today is a direct result of the rise in the stock market and asset values over the past few years - folks are feeling extremely wealthy these days and too many simply extrapolate that going forward everything will continue as they have over the past few years.
 
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We have many financial forums now like BH to provide financial advice for free. Maybe that’s why Suze retired.
 
I'm always scrambling numbers around in our budget. Honestly, anyone can cut expenses if free time is more important than spending money. There are so many discount stores that offer name brand products. We hate debt so have minimal. My biggest concerns are events that are out of our control, health issues and taxes. We live in Illinois and don't get me started. We are #50 in fiscally healthy states and the future does not look bright.
 
Is this the same Suze that told everyone the only investment they should ever have is an S&P index fund, while at the same time having 96% of her own money in a municipal bond ladders?
 
njhowie said:
As the FIRE movement has grown recently, I think she's simply trying to bring a little reality in to the picture for those "younger folks" who wake up one morning, are tired of going to work (after a career of no more than 10 or 15 years), see they have $1 million in total assets, and think they can retire. I've seen this a number of times recently with new posters who are in their 30s asking "Can I retire?" and putting up numbers that total around $1 million. I think a lot of what we're seeing today is a direct result of the rise in the stock market and asset values over the past few years - folks are feeling extremely wealthy these days and too many simply extrapolate that going forward everything will continue as they have over the past few years.
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I think this is a significant contributor, the feeling of wealth. It reminds me of the late 90s when we lived in NoVA, and there was a lot of press about AOL millionaires retiring in their late 20s/early 30s. It didn’t work out well for most of them.
 
Kelor said:
Is this the same Suze that told everyone the only investment they should ever have is an S&P index fund, while at the same time having 96% of her own money in a municipal bond ladders?
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1. What makes the most sense for a person with tens of millions in assets might not be the same as what makes the most sense for someone of average wealth. Warren Buffett says the same thing, and yet his assets are not all invested in a S&P index fund.

2. Over the past 5 to 10 years, how has the S&P index fund performed and how have municipal bond ladders performed? Are you aware of the million dollar wager Buffett made with a hedge fund? If not, go look it up.

3. Someone who has the bulk invested in municipal bond ladders says to me that the investment objective is capital preservation. Someone who is mostly invested in S&P 500 says growth/income to me. What is the investment objective of the investor who we are talking about?
 
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njhowie said:
1. What makes the most sense for a person with tens of millions in assets might not be the same as what makes the most sense for someone of average wealth. Warren Buffett says the same thing, and yet his assets are not all invested in a S&P index fund.

2. Over the past 5 to 10 years, how has the S&P index fund performed and how have municipal bond ladders performed? Are you aware of the million dollar wager Buffett made with a hedge fund? If not, go look it up.

3. Someone who has the bulk invested in municipal bond ladders says to me that the investment objective is capital preservation. Someone who is mostly invested in S&P 500 says growth/income to me. What is the investment objective of the investor who we are talking about?
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I agree to all points, but she was saying that pre-2008. There are so many things Orman says that are flat out incorrect. She's able to hide behind the fact she no longer has a securities license.
 
Kelor said:
I agree to all points, but she was saying that pre-2008. There are so many things Orman says that are flat out incorrect. She's able to hide behind the fact she no longer has a securities license.
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It doesn't matter when she was saying it - what does the market do over the long term? It's just like anyone's asset allocation here. There are plenty of folks who do just put everything, or the bulk of their investment money in to the S&P 500 index funds. Are they all wrong? Are you faulting her for suggesting the index fund at a time before the financial crisis? Aren't we generally of the mindset that we're not timing the market? Your investment objective and risk profile implies your asset allocation and where you should be investing - regardless of what is happening in the markets.

She's not flat out wrong very often. It's simply that lots of folks are looking to throw stones any way that they might be able to.

If she's not right for you, that's fine - ignore her. There are plenty, just as with Dave Ramsey, who get valuable information and guidance from her. Even though I don't like her, if I'm flipping through the stations and she's on, I will stop to watch some.

I don't believe whether she has a securities license or not has any impact on the information she provides or her views on the topics she discusses.
 
MRG said:
Suze says we're all wrong. Most of us don't have enough to retire early.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/t...-ever-make-according-to-suze-orman-2018-10-02


Then, Orman, with a net worth estimated to be in the neighborhood of $30 million, dropped a reality bomb of self awareness.
“Listen, if you have 20, 30, 50 or 100 million dollars, be like me, OK?” she said. “If you have that kind of money and you want to retire, fine.”

If not, and that’s most of us, better build that cushion, because, she says, if you stop stashing money, you’re losing the compounding years of your life.
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At least she got the part about compounding right. I drew my 6,8,10% out on a piece of K&E graph paper circa 1977. Along with 'Bogle's Folly' in the old 401k.

I was canned in 1993 with a estimated net worth of ballpark 250k - yes k not m.

Soo after 25 years of ER I should get my lazy butt back to work to get the 30m to retire comfortably?

heh heh heh - :LOL: :LOL: :dance: :dance: :greetings10:
 
Ok all old slackers , dust off your resume and comply with the Orman mandate. You cannot retire before 70
 
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