Life Comes at You Fast...

Blesbok

Confused about dryer sheets
Joined
May 27, 2021
Messages
2
Hello All,
I’ve been reading this forum for a few months now and have become addicted. I’ve learned so much and am amazed at the collective knowledge of this group. My DW and I recently sold our home/family farm and I’m now hoping I can call on the wisdom of this group to help me think through some major decisions.


Background:
Me: 57
DW: 57
No children.
$1.0 mm 401k
$500k taxable
$4.2 mm cash (much of it from sale of home/family farm)
$150k loan on land purchased a few years ago on which we hope to build our dream home
No other debt
No pension
If we retire next year, my SS at 67 would be about $2,700/month and DW $1,900/month


We had been thinking about selling our home/farm for a while now with the idea of using the proceeds to fund a significant part of our retirement, but it was just a thought. With home/land prices as they are today, we decided there might not be a better time to actually take the plunge, so we contacted a couple of real estate brokers in April thinking it would be several months if not a couple of years before we actually sold the farm. Boy were we wrong…we closed on the sell of the property last month and things just became very real.


We managed to work out a 1-year leaseback from the buyer of our property, so we basically have one year to figure some things out. My DW and I both plan to retire within the next 12 months. While we would love to jump in to building a home on our out-of-state property, the cost of doing so seems crazy at the moment. We’ve been quoted prices of about $650/sq ft (up from about $450/ft a year ago), so we will wait to see if things settle down before making a decision. We will continue to look for homes in that same area which will hopefully be a little more affordable. We can also rent for a while if need be. We realize that spending $1mm on a home heading into retirement probably isn’t the smartest thing to do, but that is basically the cost of living in an area that we’ve dreamed of for years. The good thing is that the property taxes are actually very reasonable.



We’ve looked at our spending very closely for the last couple of years and are comfortable that $80,000/year will be our all-in spend in retirement and according to Fircecalc that would mean a portfolio of about $2.35 million to meet that spend. I would be more comfortable with more wiggle room and would prefer starting retirement with an investment portfolio of between $2.75mm and $3 mm.


The biggest question at this point is what do with the $4.2 mm in cash we’ve been sitting on since the closing last month. Unfortunately, even that has a bit of uncertainty tied to it due to the proposed changes in the capital gains tax. Worst case scenario is that Congress passes the tax as proposed by Biden at 43.4% (39.6% capital gains + 3.8% Medicare surtax) and it is made retroactive. That would mean a capital gains bill of about $1.1 mm. If there is an increase (of whatever amount) but it is not made retroactive, the bill will be closer to $700k. If it is retroactive, but the number is a bit smaller than the current proposal we will owe something in-between.


Which brings me to my question about how to allocate the $4.2 mm in cash. I’m currently thinking:




  • Set aside $1.1 million in cash for the capital gains tax. Hopefully it will be less, but I need to plan for the worst-case scenario

  • Pay off the land loan of $150,000. Loan is at 4.9% and payments are about $1,100/month.

  • Hold another $1.1 million in cash for building a home or buying a home in the area if the right home becomes available.

  • Hold another $500k in cash for expenses to get through the first few years of retirement starting mid-2022.

  • Invest the remaining $1.35mm with a 60/40 or 70/30 allocation to get total investments to $2.85 mm. Should I invest all of this immediately or invest smaller amounts over a lengthier period of time using the dollar-cost-averaging method?


I’ve probably left something out, so please let me know if any additional information would be helpful. Thanks in advance for your thoughts/suggestions.
 
My first advise would be to seek out an accountant and find out when the tax bill is due. If you are sitting on $X of the IRS’s money the penalty may be ugly. I don’t know the answer but the IRS isn’t nice even if they get $$ all year long if the final bill is large.

Welcome to ER !
 
You've just highlighted the huge downside of selling long held farmland.


IMO you didn't do nearly enough homework before selling. Do you mind if I ask what kind of rental income this property would have provided you. Well it's done now, so dig into your tax records and see how much of this you can split off as the value of your home. That will get a different tax treatment. Do you have an idea of what your actual basis is?


And yes you absolutely need to start sending payments to the IRA now.



I find it ironic that you sold your farm because the price was so good and then start fussing about what a new home costs, these things go hand in glove.


Anybody holding farmland and thinking about selling it needs to realize it's a one and done. It's not like buying and selling homes. Once you sell a farm and pay the taxes. it's a rare bird that can get back in that market.



With no pension OP you had a gold plated annuity that you still owned. You get income, the land still belongs to you with all it's value intact. I hope it all works out the way you planned Good Luck.
 
I am pretty sure you could exclude $500k from the capital gains for MFJ but I am not an accountant. Also don't know how the fact that part of it was a business/farm applies. As Vacation4us said I would be definitely finding a good tax accountant to try to minimize the damage.
Congrats on your big sale! You're in an enviable position with first world problems no matter how this shakes out!

Wow $650/sq ft seems insane to me. From $450 to $650 is a large jump in a year. Last data I saw was that the big spike in lumber prices was adding about $30k to a 2000 sq ft home. That may be coming down as well since lumber futures have been falling.
That tells me those builders are jacking up huge profits (a 2000 sq ft home would be another $400k in a year) at your expense. I realize supply and demand dictates a lot but that would kind of piss me off.:mad:
I would probably do everything in your plan with the exception of paying cash to build. I would take out a mortgage, at least for a year or two and see how that all works out, You could always pay it off at any time.:)

If it were me I would also slowly put the remainder in the market. I can't time the market but it just feels almost giddy to me right now:cool:
 
I am pretty sure you could exclude $500k from the capital gains for MFJ but I am not an accountant. Also don't know how the fact that part of it was a business/farm applies. As Vacation4us said I would be definitely finding a good tax accountant to try to minimize the damage.
Congrats on your big sale! You're in an enviable position with first world problems no matter how this shakes out!

Wow $650/sq ft seems insane to me. From $450 to $650 is a large jump in a year. Last data I saw was that the big spike in lumber prices was adding about $30k to a 2000 sq ft home. That may be coming down as well since lumber futures have been falling.
That tells me those builders are jacking up huge profits (a 2000 sq ft home would be another $400k in a year) at your expense. I realize supply and demand dictates a lot but that would kind of piss me off.:mad:
I would probably do everything in your plan with the exception of paying cash to build. I would take out a mortgage, at least for a year or two and see how that all works out, You could always pay it off at any time.:)

If it were me I would also slowly put the remainder in the market. I can't time the market but it just feels almost giddy to me right now:cool:


You have to go back to your basis and original value/appraisal and determine what % of the original sale was assigned to the building site/house,. If there wasn't one you would look at your taxbill, they usually have a number broken out as the "homestead" value which is taxes at a lower rate. You can keep track of every penny you spent improving/maintaining house like a normal home sale, but no it's not an automatic 500K.


And as to making a big profit, believe me when I tell you there is no profit to be made farming a 4 million dollar farm...
 
You have to go back to your basis and original value/appraisal and determine what % of the original sale was assigned to the building site/house,. If there wasn't one you would look at your taxbill, they usually have a number broken out as the "homestead" value which is taxes at a lower rate. You can keep track of every penny you spent improving/maintaining house like a normal home sale, but no it's not an automatic 500K. Well I did say I wasn't an accountant and he should utilize one,


And as to making a big profit, believe me when I tell you there is no profit to be made farming a 4 million dollar farm...
Don't believe I said anything about a "big profit" only a big sale.

The OP also claims they have no debt except for a new land loan so it is still a big sale anyway you look at it and appears all that cash is available for taxes, gains, investing, house build etc., an enviable position as I stated.
 
You'll get plenty of financial advice here and you seem to be in a bit of a hurry to make a decision so I'll offer this: If you hurry and make a mistake you will remember it for the rest of your life and possibly even suffer for it. If you take your time to study, consult, and make a good decision, you will forget the fact that it took a few more months or even a year.
 
Don't believe I said anything about a "big profit" only a big sale.

The OP also claims they have no debt except for a new land loan so it is still a big sale anyway you look at it and appears all that cash is available for taxes, gains, investing, house build etc., an enviable position as I stated.


I was referring to your comments about how much profits the builders were making and I was saying the OP made a bunch of profits as well. Meaning farmland is inflated beyond it's farming value.


No need to use red letters, I was sharing what I know about farmland basis.
 
You'll get plenty of financial advice here and you seem to be in a bit of a hurry to make a decision so I'll offer this: If you hurry and make a mistake you will remember it for the rest of your life and possibly even suffer for it. If you take your time to study, consult, and make a good decision, you will forget the fact that it took a few more months or even a year.
Well he did say they leased the farm back and have 12 months to try to figure things out. Doesn't sound like a big hurry to me. Sounds like he made a wise decision to lease and think things thru.
Of course according to other posters he should not have sold it in the first place so maybe that was the part not thought thru?
 
I was referring to your comments about how much profits the builders were making and I was saying the OP made a bunch of profits as well. Meaning farmland is inflated beyond it's farming value.


No need to use red letters, I was sharing what I know about farmland basis.


Ok I misunderstood your comments regarding the profits involved and I agree with that point.

I was only using red letter because I was responding with in the quote section and didn't think anybody would see it:)
 
Well he did say they leased the farm back and have 12 months to try to figure things out. Doesn't sound like a big hurry to me. Sounds like he made a wise decision to lease and think things thru.
Of course according to other posters he should not have sold it in the first place so maybe that was the part not thought thru?




If you mean me, I am of the opinion that all things were not carefully considered before selling, but then I'm a belt and suspenders kind of gal. :angel:


I've got a strange neighbor that sold farm acreage at an auction,7years ago because of record land prices..he still lives the same life in the house across the gravel road. Well, that bit him in the butt big time, and he's minus 7 years of healthy rental income. When you sell long held farmland with no debt by the time you pay all the taxes and give up your rent income (which means you are using the land sale money to live on) it's hard to make that pencil out.
 
If you mean me, I am of the opinion that all things were not carefully considered before selling, but then I'm a belt and suspenders kind of gal. :angel:


I've got a strange neighbor that sold farm acreage at an auction,7years ago because of record land prices..he still lives the same life in the house across the gravel road. Well, that bit him in the butt big time, and he's minus 7 years of healthy rental income. When you sell long held farmland with no debt by the time you pay all the taxes and give up your rent income (which means you are using the land sale money to live on) it's hard to make that pencil out.


Don't disagree with you on any of that. I know noting about farmland I was only trying to address (in my original post) what I would do going forward.
 
Don't disagree with you on any of that. I know noting about farmland I was only trying to address (in my original post) what I would do going forward.




I'd actually build the house and convert some of that farm money to real estate. I'm not certain anything real estate related is going to "calm down" anytime soon.

I wish the OP the best and a happy retirement.
 
Our friend sold his rice farm land last year because he no longer wanted to deal with it. For several years, he did not even grow anything because he made more money from selling his water right to other farmers below his farm than to try to make money growing rice. We all reach a point in our lives where we prefer simplicity.
 
Our friend sold his rice farm land last year because he no longer wanted to deal with it. For several years, he did not even grow anything because he made more money from selling his water right to other farmers below his farm than to try to make money growing rice. We all reach a point in our lives where we prefer simplicity.




That why renters exist to simplify your life...they give you cash, handle all the farming and you get to keep your land..that's what I hear anyway since my 71 YO DH stills actively farms.
 
It’s an extreme “Contractor’s Market” right now due to high demand, lumber prices are absurdly high, and supply lines for other materials are still hosed, so there is no way I’d launch into building a home until markets even out and catch up with demand. We can’t even get our kitchen remodel finished by the clowns who have been here disrupting our lives since October.
 
You'll get plenty of financial advice here and you seem to be in a bit of a hurry to make a decision so I'll offer this: If you hurry and make a mistake you will remember it for the rest of your life and possibly even suffer for it. If you take your time to study, consult, and make a good decision, you will forget the fact that it took a few more months or even a year.

+1. Sound advice.
 
Hello All,
The biggest question at this point is what do with the $4.2 mm in cash we’ve been sitting on since the closing last month. Unfortunately, even that has a bit of uncertainty tied to it due to the proposed changes in the capital gains tax. Worst case scenario is that Congress passes the tax as proposed by Biden at 43.4% (39.6% capital gains + 3.8% Medicare surtax) and it is made retroactive. That would mean a capital gains bill of about $1.1 mm. If there is an increase (of whatever amount) but it is not made retroactive, the bill will be closer to $700k. If it is retroactive, but the number is a bit smaller than the current proposal we will owe something in-between.

You will have capital gains on the farm and home that you sold. You probably should figure out the taxes ASAP, as you will need to pay them quarterly to avoid a penalty.

The only way the proposed tax legislation could pass is through budget reconciliation, and the American Jobs Plan does not include the large capital gains hike you mentioned. There is only one more budget reconciliation bill possible this year (which bypasses the filibuster), so it is virtually impossible to see such a large hike in capital gains tax this year.

Although tax legislation can be somewhat retroactive (as opposed to the ex post facto prohibition of criminal law in the Constitution), it would be highly unlikely that it would apply to previous years, as it would a nightmare for the IRS to re-process everyone's amended tax returns.

I think you should rest easy about a proposed change in capital gains tax. The only time the capital gains tax was over 25% was between 1967 and 1979, and I cannot imagine that this Congress will pass such a high capital gains tax rate AND make it retroactive. Even at the highest amount, you have the cash to pay it and the means to retire.

Good luck and enjoy your retirement.
 
Thanks to everyone for your feedback – it is greatly appreciated. I definitely understand the comments about making decisions too quickly and perhaps paying a price for having done so. While the decision to sell at this particular time was made pretty quickly, the decision to sell at all was made over some time. I did consult with a CPA and an attorney before pulling the trigger. We had discussions about the tax implications and the possibility of establishing a charitable remainder trust, doing it as an installment sale, and a couple of other options. There were some downsides to the other options and in the end we decided to take on the high tax bill. It might not turn out to have been the right decision, but I am comfortable with the fact that it was at least an informed decision.


Regarding holding on to the house and land and using it to generate income, the problem is that the land doesn’t have that much value as an agricultural property. Its value has increased substantially because we are located near a fairly large city and people are moving further and further out to find larger pieces of property. The property was sold to a developer who is content to sit on the land for a while. In a few years, this might pay off very well for him – and I hope it does – but there is certainly some risk involved on his part. We received what we felt was a very good price and because of the year leaseback we are able to part ways with the land without feeling rushed. (I think those who have lived on a farm for a long time understand the emotional connection.) My DW and I are both ready to retire and the sale of the property is allowing us to do that sooner rather than later.


As for the estimated tax on the capital gains, I also thought I would have to pay those soon after the sale, but my CPA informed me that there is a safe-harbor provision that allows us to pay the taxes next year. Basically, with an adjusted gross income of more than $150,000 I just need to be sure to pay in (withholdings) at least 110 percent of my previous year’s taxes in order to avoid an estimated tax penalty – regardless of how much I owe on my 2020 taxes, including the capital gains. So, the tax bill is still coming, but I have a little more time to pay it.



I didn’t mean to come across as “fussy” regarding the cost of a new house. We are definitely lucky to even have the opportunity to do something like this. I guess I just had a bit of sticker-shock when I heard about recent cost increases. The cost of housing was already expensive in the area (isolated mountain town) and between the increased cost of goods and limited availability of labor, prices jumped dramatically.



Thanks again for all the valuable feedback along with the well-wishes.
 
OP if you sold to land developer not taking a contact was really smart...also this makes your decision to sell a little easier as a future income stream isn't a big factor.



4 million dollars worth of farmland in my area will bring in well over 6 figures in annual rent.



Your issue with building now is a 12 month time frame isn't that long and waiting could cost you more money. If you leave your future house money in cash you could lose a lot of house buying power if prices rise.



Someone posting here is getting a very nice manufactured home in a setting in Idaho, have you any interest in that? Sounds like final costs would be in the mid 400s...
 
We relocated a year and a half ago, and we had no idea that the real estate market was going to be in such an upswing.

We're fortunate to have found an expansive 3905 square foot house on 1 acre, and it was $89 per square foot. We also added a swimming pool. I am fortunate to have always lived in ultra LCOL cities, and our new neighborhood has really nice homes.

My nephew (that I raised) moved 2 months ago into the premier neighborhood in a city of 1 million people. He paid $1,100,000 for 4900 square feet or about $225 per square feet for a home that looks like something out of Architectural Digest. That's what the house cost to build 20 years ago, so I think he did very well.

Are there any pre-owned homes in the area that you're wanting to build your "forever home?"

Every time I hear of $500-650 a square foot homes, I am appalled. We're used to having so many square feet because we're in a cost to build market rather than in a demand driven retail home market.

Congratulations to getting to where you are in life. Sounds as if you need a good tax attorney and a good fiduciary CFA to point you in a specific direction now that you have the cash in the bank.
 
I'd leave the Provos out of it, if I were OP...
sorry, couldn't resist.

And yes you absolutely need to start sending payments to the IRA now.
 
I'd leave the Provos out of it, if I were OP...
sorry, couldn't resist.
:LOL::LOL::LOL::LOL:


or OP could fund all our IRA 's too. Just post your name and account number.
 
We relocated a year and a half ago, and we had no idea that the real estate market was going to be in such an upswing.

We're fortunate to have found an expansive 3905 square foot house on 1 acre, and it was $89 per square foot. We also added a swimming pool. I am fortunate to have always lived in ultra LCOL cities, and our new neighborhood has really nice homes.

My nephew (that I raised) moved 2 months ago into the premier neighborhood in a city of 1 million people. He paid $1,100,000 for 4900 square feet or about $225 per square feet for a home that looks like something out of Architectural Digest. That's what the house cost to build 20 years ago, so I think he did very well.

Are there any pre-owned homes in the area that you're wanting to build your "forever home?"

Every time I hear of $500-650 a square foot homes, I am appalled. We're used to having so many square feet because we're in a cost to build market rather than in a demand driven retail home market.

Congratulations to getting to where you are in life. Sounds as if you need a good tax attorney and a good fiduciary CFA to point you in a specific direction now that you have the cash in the bank.




I'm pretty sure the actual cost to build is more then 89 a square foot today. Generally unless you are in a very upscale locale larger homes will cost less per foot.


Has your house gone up in value in the last year.. Congrats on finding such a nice place and it goes to show there are places where nice homes don't cost a million bucks.
 
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