Line in the sand

[harley]

I have a real sweet tooth myself and found substituting pastry, ice cream and the like with all kinds of fruit, figs, raisins mixed with non- salt wide range of nuts, sunflower seeds helped me to cut back 90%. I know fruit & figs have sugar but in its natural form it seems to be much better.and less caloric.

Really, it's not. I wish it was, because I'd kill to be able to eat dates and figs and bananas and even apples and .... But sugar is sugar for the most part. You probably get more vitamins and minerals from a few figs than a bagel, but carb-wise it's not a big difference. If you are able to cut 90% of your carbs that way, great! But make sure you really are, because I suspect you'll be unpleasantly surprised.

Personally I've found that nuts (particularly salted) and cheese helps to curb the cravings, and things like my favorite spinach artichoke dip from Costco with carrots or broccoli do too. But mostly that's filling up, not satisfying the sweet tooth. The only real cure for that has been time and stepping away from the carbs. After a while the sweet tooth goes away. But during that time you need to just apply willpower. I don't have much, but luckily was able to summon enough to make it through the withdrawal period. It's not that big a deal. And you're talking to a guy that used to drive to the local 7-11 at 1 AM to pick up a pint of Ben and Jerry's (usually Chunky Monkey).

 

[footenote]

Of course it is! In fact your risk of sudden cardiac death can be 7x if you are under 50 and have type 2 diabetes.

https://www.webmd.com/diabetes/news...-7-times-greater-risk-of-sudden-heart-death#1

My brother had poorly-controlled T2 diabetes for decades. I tried to persuade him to eat a low-carb diet. He would periodically claim he was doing it, but always went back to sugary drinks and food. Even losing three toes did not convince him.

He felt very unwell at work Feb 21 and declined colleagues' suggestions he get medical help. He worsened over the weekend, went to the ER Sunday night and was dead 75 minutes later. The cardiologist told me my brother had already had a "large" heart attack on Feb 21.

I learned the same damage diabetes does to the heart can also cause neuropathy that makes a heart attack "silent." The diabetic may not feel the pain often experienced by non-diabetics when a heart attack occurs.

My brother was 56 and leaves three children 13, 12 and 9 years old. (He was also over $130,000. in debt, but that's another sad story for another thread.)

 

[audreyh1]

My brother had poorly-controlled T2 diabetes for decades. I tried to persuade him to eat a low-carb diet. He would periodically claim he was doing it, but always went back to sugary drinks and food. Even losing three toes did not convince him.

He felt very unwell at work Feb 21 and declined colleagues' suggestions he get medical help. He worsened over the weekend, went to the ER Sunday night and was dead 75 minutes later. The cardiologist told me my brother had already had a "large" heart attack on Feb 21.

I learned the same damage diabetes does to the heart can also cause neuropathy that makes a heart attack "silent." The diabetic may not feel the pain often experienced by non-diabetics when a heart attack occurs.

My brother was 56 and leaves three children 13, 12 and 9 years old. (He was also over $130,000. in debt, but that's another sad story for another thread.)

I am so very sorry for your loss!

 

[Old Microbiologist]

Sorry for your loss. It is tragic and so easily prevented. Just not eating carbohydrates ever again is all it takes.

Some people cannot control themselves even when faced with imminent death. My (current) wife is among those and I am unable to convince her to change her ways including smoking, diet and exercise. Interestingly, my second wife was able to be convinced recently and also is doing keto. She has some terrible neurodegenerative disease and also breaks bones easily. She has thanked me over and over for the changes this diet made to her life.

But, so far my wife is not yet convinced. However, when I showed her the research paper that shows that smokers have 1,000 times more ACE2 receptors than non-smokers (that is how the COVID-19 virus enters the cell) it got her thinking about quitting smoking. She is also pre-diabetic and I have presented her with all the data and yet, she is resistant. She has had pneumonia in January and again in February so perhaps this is enough. We will see. First quit smoking and then start Keto with exercise. It will be a tough uphill battle. But the alternative is death. I think it is sinking in on her that the time is rapidly approaching where this cannot be reversed. She is 72.

 

[RNretired]

Late in life, I have decided to pay serious attention to my health. I have metabolic syndrome.
I do not want type-2 diabetes.
I do not want 'type-3' diabetes (dementia).
I do not want kidney failure.
I want to delay going to the infernal realm as long as I can.

So far, I have eliminated alcohol [emoji22], sugar and all the carbohydrates I can find. I recently discovered that when a doctor says, you must 'avoid' alcohol, he really means, 'avoid like the plague'. Nada. Zip. [emoji15]

My target is to lose 120 lbs (150, if possible). This will take a looong time. If it works, I will report back. If'n it don't, I might be 'incommunicado' as Jimmy Buffet said. Serious times.

I started Keto on November 4th and have lost 35 pounds. The best part is that my A1C has dropped from 5.9 (right at pre diabetic) to 5.2 which is in the upper normal range. Cutting the carbs is what my body needs. Now to add exercises.

 

[Ed_The_Gypsy]

Darn. I just read that the first 20 lbs really are only water. Good thing I know this will take a long time.
P.S.: A1c = 5.1 last week.

 

[SpinDoctorTX]

Good for you, taking control of your food life. Cutting sugar did the most good- health wise- for us. we'd used a program (my old job paid as I was still there) called Naturally Slim- and both dropped 20+ lbs & have kept it off.

I had also used IF since 2018... We fast from 7pm to 11am, mostly to get rid of heartburn. Honestly I'd hit a plateau which lasted 5 years until I began IF. It didn't work as quickly as I thought it would b/c I was already eating at a maint. level diet (or so I thought). When I ERd and almost all our meals were prepared at home, we began to lose again. I track all of my food through My FItness Pal,

Reducing carbs drastically will drop the blood pressure initially, then the weight loss will help keep it down if not drop it further.

I did not experience weight loss or blood numbers after doing IF for 6 months, but I did gain the benefit of my digestive system being settled during the nighttime, which is what I really wanted.

Drastically cutting carbs was what really made the magic happen for me. I went off IF at first while adjusting to the new way of eating.

I now tend to just eat two meals a day and limit late eating. Often skip breakfast or have it very late. I just feel better that way and go through long periods of not being hungry at all.

+1

I was just having a similar conversation with my 87 year old dad yesterday. One of my SIL's was telling him recently that he needs to slow down and not do so much. My parents still live in the house I grew up in - 2.5 acres, IG pool, 2000 square foot house - and he still maintains the property single handed. A carpenter by trade, he has always done physical labor and the 2-3 hours he spends out in the yard each day is his "job". It's what keeps him going.

Exactly! My Mom is 83 and she takes care of herself health-wise and VERY active. She drives alone from KY to Houston TX (snow-summer bird) and stays with us around 5 months per year, & also visiting ppl in Amarillo and Austin.

Physical activity is such an underrated thing.

Here is the obituary of a guy who has been an idol of mine for decades. Ran six miles to his job as a waiter, spent his whole shift on his feet, then ran back home, often including a one mile swim in good weather. In fact I've seen reports that he only started his running hobby when he was 65.

Here's my experience:

When I quit drinking alcohol 10+ years ago,I dropped 20 pounds in a couple pf months. Then the urge for ice cream bit me and I gained 40 pounds back! For me, the urge to replace the alcohol sugars was real. Now I struggle to stay away from sweets in general.

Exactly- I have to have some sugar so I budget for them first in my food diary, and work my way up to how I'll spend the balance of calories.

Ed, you will definitely lose weight cutting carbs etc, but unless you adopt a regular resistance-training program, you will lose vital muscle mass along the way, because (for evolutionary reasons) the body will sacrifice muscle and retain fat — unless you force it to stay strong. Walking is great, but it does little for your muscles. Read “Body by Science” by McGuff & Little for a high—intensity protocol that takes only 20 minutes a week.

+1
I get my resistance lifting done at home in a combo of weights & physical cleaning of the house.

My brother had poorly-controlled T2 diabetes for decades. I tried to persuade him to eat a low-carb diet.

My brother was 56 and leaves three children 13, 12 and 9 years old. (He was also over $130,000. in debt, but that's another sad story for another thread.)

I'm so sorry for you and your family.

 

[harley]

I had also used IF since 2018... We fast from 7pm to 11am, mostly to get rid of heartburn. Honestly I'd hit a plateau which lasted 5 years until I began IF. It didn't work as quickly as I thought it would b/c I was already eating at a maint. level diet (or so I thought). When I ERd and almost all our meals were prepared at home, we began to lose again. I track all of my food through My FItness Pal

I second the use of IF for controlling heartburn. One of our main reasons for starting it was DW's really bad GERD. She couldn't sleep through the night without waking up choking. She started Omeprazole(?) which helped, but the IF with us not eating after 8 pm made the big difference and she was able to stop the meds.

We've both plateaued with our weight for the last 6 months or so, and we would both like to drop another 10-20 lbs. So we've got to figure that out. With the LCHF and IF we haven't really paid any attention to how much we eat, just what we eat. I guess we'll have to throw in a little calorie restriction and/or exercise to get over that last hump. But all of our medical conditions are so much better that we feel victorious, even if we don't lose another lb.

 

[Rustic23]

Look into intermittent fasting. Easiest way I have lost weight ever.

+1

 

[Nemo2]

Am I the only one who, reading this (and similar) thread(s), wonders about perspective? 20 lbs, if you're 4 feet 11 inches tall, is a little different than 20 lbs if you're 6 feet 7 inches.

 

[Tailgate]

Greetings Ed! In case DDPY (yoga) hasn't been mentioned, I hope you check out the video link. I've lost 55 lbs in a year and regained strength and greatly improved balance and flexibility. Reversed type 2. Last A1C was 4.8 Dropped 3 blood pressure meds. Size 44 pant to 36 (and they almost fall off now). XX shirts to L. I'm 69 years old. Best wishes!

 

[street]

Look into intermittent fasting. Easiest way I have lost weight ever.

This is great advice and not even considered a diet method, but for healthy living life.

 

[audreyh1]

Darn. I just read that the first 20 lbs really are only water. Good thing I know this will take a long time.
P.S.: A1c = 5.1 last week.

I don’t think the first 20 pounds are only water. Maybe the weight you lose in the first 2 weeks is mostly water - especially the sudden loss.

 

[MRG]

I don’t think the first 20 pounds are only water. Maybe the weight you lose in the first 2 weeks is mostly water - especially the sudden loss.

Don't you also initially a lot of weight from diminished glycogen stores?

I've read about keto but never actually did it.

 

[harley]

Darn. I just read that the first 20 lbs really are only water.

Not always. Sometimes it's beer and whiskey.

 

[audreyh1]

Don't you also initially a lot of weight from diminished glycogen stores?

I've read about keto but never actually did it.

The initial loss of glycogen stores is mostly water weight. Glycogen molecules contain a lot of water, so when you use up your glycogen and it is not replenished water is released. Often there is a lot of extra peeing involved that first week or two.

In addition, as blood insulin levels drop the kidneys release sodium and more water. In other words - higher insulin levels cause sodium and water retention. So lowering them has the opposite effect. Someone starting keto probably needs to eat more sodium to compensate.

Carrying less water in general helps with initial blood pressure drop as well as the rapid initial weight loss. In fact some people may feel a little light headed at first. I experienced that a bit during yoga and my BP was quite low for a while, but it normalized after a few weeks.

Then of course weight loss in general helps reduce blood pressure.

 

[aja8888]

Not always. Sometimes it's beer and whiskey.

Exactly, that's what it was for me 10 years ago when I stopped the booze. Oh, throw in some wine, too!

That was a very easy 20 pound loss!

 

[Time2]

+1

If you have cut out that many carbs you are or will be in ketosis. Might be a good idea to do a little research about side effects. Things I recall are: keto flu, magnesium, potassium, and sodium may need supplementation.....

Interesting you say that! I'm tracking my food intake with Cronometer, I'm well aware of the salt situation, but I see in Cronometer several vitamins and minerals I'm lacking in my Keto Diet, I started taking a Centum adult and that fixed most of of the items to 100%, but I see magnesium and potassium are both low, I thought Phosphorus was a problem also, But today I got 96%, not sure what I ate for that. Ahh, just checked, 7.5 oz of steak was 65% of the 96% I got.

My Omega 3 and 6 are both low. I see an oz of Salmon would fix the Omega 3 or even better, 1.5 oz of walnuts will bring both up to proper levels.

 

[audreyh1]

I started taking magnesium nightly shortly after starting keto. Otherwise I get foot or calf cramps during the night.

 

[Old Microbiologist]

For me it is a constant potassium deficit. You can't purchase potassium supplement here without a prescription and then it is in 1 gram tablets and expensive. KCL is a treatment for cardiac disease and too much can kill you so it is controlled here by law. I had a lot of kidney pain the first 2 months and then went to my local physician (who understands the problems with keto) and got the prescription and now the pain is gone. You need more than 3,000 grams of potassium a day on the keto diet some of which is made up if you eat broccoli every day. There is also no electrolyte supplements available here in Hungary and finding keto diet supplement stuff of any kind is rare. I did luckily find a local store that has started selling almond and coconut flour but no non-sugared electrolytes. There are plenty of those but all have glucose in them which I am avoiding. There is a home made mix called Snake Juice and it has salt, KCL, bicarbonate and magnesium (from Epsom salts). It tastes awful but works, if you can get all the ingredients.

 

[Time2]

For me it is a constant potassium deficit. You can't purchase potassium supplement here without a prescription and then it is in 1 gram tablets and expensive. KCL is a treatment for cardiac disease and too much can kill you so it is controlled here by law. I had a lot of kidney pain the first 2 months and then went to my local physician (who understands the problems with keto) and got the prescription and now the pain is gone. You need more than 3,000 grams of potassium a day on the keto diet some of which is made up if you eat broccoli every day. There is also no electrolyte supplements available here in Hungary and finding keto diet supplement stuff of any kind is rare. I did luckily find a local store that has started selling almond and coconut flour but no non-sugared electrolytes. There are plenty of those but all have glucose in them which I am avoiding. There is a home made mix called Snake Juice and it has salt, KCL, bicarbonate and magnesium (from Epsom salts). It tastes awful but works, if you can get all the ingredients.

I'm sure you missed the mili above when you said 3000 grams.

' WHO' recommends 3,500 mg of potassium daily, I also see 4700mg recommended.


Yet many supplements are 100mg up to 550mg.


While reading about potassium, it looks like it would be very difficult to get enough while on a Keto diet, probably a SAD diet also.
If you eat everything on this chart you only get 2600 of the 3500 to 4700mg recommended.

 

[MRG]

For me it is a constant potassium deficit. You can't purchase potassium supplement here without a prescription and then it is in 1 gram tablets and expensive. KCL is a treatment for cardiac disease and too much can kill you so it is controlled here by law. I had a lot of kidney pain the first 2 months and then went to my local physician (who understands the problems with keto) and got the prescription and now the pain is gone. You need more than 3,000 grams of potassium a day on the keto diet some of which is made up if you eat broccoli every day. There is also no electrolyte supplements available here in Hungary and finding keto diet supplement stuff of any kind is rare. I did luckily find a local store that has started selling almond and coconut flour but no non-sugared electrolytes. There are plenty of those but all have glucose in them which I am avoiding. There is a home made mix called Snake Juice and it has salt, KCL, bicarbonate and magnesium (from Epsom salts). It tastes awful but works, if you can get all the ingredients.

NuSalt.

 

[Old Microbiologist]

Time2 Yeah, milligrams sorry. However, only spinach, broccoli and yogurt are allowed on your list for keto. Staying under 20 grams of total carbohydrate is not easy.

MRG, NuSalt is something you can buy in the US but prohibited in Europe. It is considered dangerous as it is really a heart medicine which an overdose can kill you. Here you must go through a physician and get a prescription to get tablets. They are 1,000 mg though so I take 2 a day as I do get around 1,000 in the diet. I am just saying this as it was something unexpected and I got bad lower back pain and couldn't correct it until I saw the physician. Even importing KCl into Hungary from elsewhere is prohibited as here it is a scheduled drug.

 

[audreyh1]

Avocados are very high in potassium - one avocado has more than twice the potassium of a banana from what I read. Yet it rarely makes the lists of high potassium foods for some reason.

An Avocado Has More Potassium Than A Banana
A single avocado has 975 milligrams of potassium, while a banana, well-known for being loaded with potassium, delivers just half that, with 487 milligrams per large fruit.

 

[Time2]

Using Cronometer, it says a medium size banana has 422mg of Phosphorus and 24 grams of grams Carbs. Yikes!

A black skin California type Avocado has 690mg of phosphorus and only 2.4gr of carbs. Easy choice if you are on Keto.


But you need to eat 6 in order to get the recommended mg of phosphorus.