Longevity underestimated? (Ray Kurzweil Ted Talk)
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JustCurious
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They wouldn't die at 25, they would stop aging.
Dtail
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Loved that movie. It is not that conceptually different than now, where the rich get richer, only except in time.
MuirWannabe
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Guess it settles the SS debate. I’m waiting till 70.
timo2
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At first I laughed, but then I realized how true that is when I recalled the person whose money ran out at age 100, then got evicted from the nursing home at age 101. Here is the link.
https://www.pressdemocrat.com/news/...d7EYZ5lAXAuydf33iWmn9kGRqUZMkIVKkSDzTmTbhTDC0
Sojourner
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This is actually one of the deepest questions in the field of study known as "philosophy of mind". Is our consciousness, our sense of personal identity, somehow tied to the actual molecules and atoms that comprise our brain, or could it be replicated perfectly by scanning our brains at the atomic/quantum level and creating a second copy using different atoms? In the example of the Star Trek transporter, certainly the "transported" Kirk would feel exactly as if he had been in the transporter room one second, then on the surface of the planet the next second. But is it really "him", or did the original Kirk experience his own death (i.e. permanent loss of identity and consciousness) in the transporter room? And what if the transporter process actually sent all of Kirk's original atoms down to the planet's surface (as opposed to using different atoms that were already there), so that all the particles and quantum micro-states of the transported Kirk were identical to the ones from the transporter room? Would the transported Kirk in that case have a sense that he briefly fell asleep or lost consciousness for just a moment, instead of experiencing his own death? No one knows the answers to any of these questions. Fascinating, mind-bending stuff.
Physics Guy
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On the other hand if he really had the same memories, knowledge, habits, and emotional attachments what does it matter if he "died?" There are lots of issues around the possibility of multiple copies or unethical use of the technology but outside of those issues I have often wondered why people care about the death portion if everything important is preserved?
copyright1997reloaded
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Should we be shorting the life insurance companies?
Never mind, that would be a good question had I opened this thread in the Stock Picking thread.
ETA: Also it is a mixed bag. Those paying annuities would be hurt. Policies that pay on death would be more profitable.
Never mind, that would be a good question had I opened this thread in the Stock Picking thread.
ETA: Also it is a mixed bag. Those paying annuities would be hurt. Policies that pay on death would be more profitable.
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teejayevans
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To the original him it would matter...ALOT!
Two words - life insurance.
copyright1997reloaded
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Just need to make sure the data centers holding our up-loaded brains are not right on the coast. Or, put them under the ocean - problem solved.
Related to Mr Kurzweil, is this blog called "Singularity Hub":
https://singularityhub.com/2019/05/...m-meaning-and-the-struggle-of-mental-freedom/
For those not familiar with Ray Kurzweil, he's an inventor and futurist--a brilliant man. Many of his predictions have proven to be true. While many of his future predictions seem outlandish, I would never dismiss out of hand.
As far as living longer, if that happens and I think it will, I'm not concerned about running out of money. If anything, we'll all become even wealthier. Wealthier in ways I can't even begin to imagine.
If you've never heard of his predictions, search for him on Youtube and prepared to be blown away.
https://singularityhub.com/2019/05/...m-meaning-and-the-struggle-of-mental-freedom/
For those not familiar with Ray Kurzweil, he's an inventor and futurist--a brilliant man. Many of his predictions have proven to be true. While many of his future predictions seem outlandish, I would never dismiss out of hand.
As far as living longer, if that happens and I think it will, I'm not concerned about running out of money. If anything, we'll all become even wealthier. Wealthier in ways I can't even begin to imagine.
If you've never heard of his predictions, search for him on Youtube and prepared to be blown away.
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While I don’t know about uploading your brain to a computer, I have no doubt that we will be able to extend both healthspan and lifespan at some point. I think it could be as soon as my kids generation. Scientists have already done this with a variety of methods in animal models and the results are pretty striking. The primate reservatrol study photos speak volumes.
Having a safe perpetual withdrawal rate becomes pretty important but so does working later.
Having a safe perpetual withdrawal rate becomes pretty important but so does working later.
Tetto
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Sounds interesting; what about criminals? Murderers, serial killers etc, donwe let them live forever? The longevity of a locked up criminal would require staggering tax increases to house these people for these long periods of time. Perhaps if your found guilty in the future, automatic nanobot withdrawal from your body will become law, sentencing you to a natural death!
donheff
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
I enjoy listening to Kurzweil but his, "The Singularity is Near" ideas seem way of the mark. I suspect some of the things he is predicting will occur but it will take centuries, not years. We can't cure cancer or figure out what diet is best and we are going to upload our minds into silicon in a few decades? I don't think so.
kcowan
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Great observation! And since life insurance is much more popular than life annuities at present, they would be more profitable overall. And they could adjust the new life annuities based on then current mortality tables.
It would be a gradual change and we might expect retirement ages to adjust. My current financial plan provides for last to die at age 100. It is really easy to adjust it to 105 etc.
CRLLS
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So could one list his next "me" as beneficiary?
Not sure I'd like to be the 4th or 5th copy. Didn't both Xerox and the movie Multiplicity teach is what happens when you make a copy of a copy......
Not sure I'd like to be the 4th or 5th copy. Didn't both Xerox and the movie Multiplicity teach is what happens when you make a copy of a copy......
TED talks are how Silicon Valley markets it's soft side and tried to convince people their intrusive technology is for our own good. For me, it's interesting hi-tech propaganda from people who genuinely believe their BS [will make them obscenely rich]. They like to think that just because their inventions don't produce any nasty physical by-products - any waste, like smoke - that they are off-the-hook and not responsible for the behaviors that their products stimulate. This is uncharted territory for fans of product-safety with almost no legal framework.
Ray is another inventor/futurist who thinks science is the key to our evolution as a species, more than it is the key to our self-destruction. I disagree with him 100%, and understand from his writings that he would like to see a 'enhanced' species of half-android proto-human evolve as our future salvation. (I believe he thinks this will start to happen by around 2050)
Methinks that is no longer a 'human' species, but something quite different and dangerous to actual "Humans" and our traditional view of the world. (Maybe "equality" is something we can never allow ourselves to accept. The ego is a powerful thing. It makes us think we're the only living thing that matters on this earth - but I digress)
I'd speculate that the rush to get into space is an effort to combat the ultimate overpopulation that is expected as life expectancy extends. What is also interesting to figure into that scheme is the lowered birth rates in highly developed countries, and the introduction of job-destroying robots and AI.
So as we get more technologically advanced, we tend to live longer, to want to move to new planets and to breed less. I'm not sure where that leaves the Earth, and humanity, in 150 years. I wonder whether we will learn how to share the resources that we have, or whether our civilization/species will bifurcate into a few technologically advanced haves who can 'escape' to new habitable planets, and mobs of bereft have-nots who are forced to stay here on a ruined and over-exploited earth - this seems like a more natural 'human' outcome based on our historical behavior.
Of course, if we can't learn to get along as a species, this will all just lead to disaster - as all previous human civilizations have encountered. Unfortunately, this would seem to be the more likely path we've chosen...crabs in a bucket.
Happy Friday!
Ray is another inventor/futurist who thinks science is the key to our evolution as a species, more than it is the key to our self-destruction. I disagree with him 100%, and understand from his writings that he would like to see a 'enhanced' species of half-android proto-human evolve as our future salvation. (I believe he thinks this will start to happen by around 2050)
Methinks that is no longer a 'human' species, but something quite different and dangerous to actual "Humans" and our traditional view of the world. (Maybe "equality" is something we can never allow ourselves to accept. The ego is a powerful thing. It makes us think we're the only living thing that matters on this earth - but I digress)
I'd speculate that the rush to get into space is an effort to combat the ultimate overpopulation that is expected as life expectancy extends. What is also interesting to figure into that scheme is the lowered birth rates in highly developed countries, and the introduction of job-destroying robots and AI.
So as we get more technologically advanced, we tend to live longer, to want to move to new planets and to breed less. I'm not sure where that leaves the Earth, and humanity, in 150 years. I wonder whether we will learn how to share the resources that we have, or whether our civilization/species will bifurcate into a few technologically advanced haves who can 'escape' to new habitable planets, and mobs of bereft have-nots who are forced to stay here on a ruined and over-exploited earth - this seems like a more natural 'human' outcome based on our historical behavior.
Of course, if we can't learn to get along as a species, this will all just lead to disaster - as all previous human civilizations have encountered. Unfortunately, this would seem to be the more likely path we've chosen...crabs in a bucket.
Happy Friday!
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From the space migration aspect, there was a PBS show on the body changes during "long" space flight (1 year... wait til you extrapolate to a multi-generational space flight to some place habitable and that doesn't already have viruses etc that kill you).
The scientists were concluding that the space travelers would no longer be human. Their bones and muscles will be weaker. They would have to have higher radiation tolerance, etc. They would effectively be a distinct species.
The scientists were concluding that the space travelers would no longer be human. Their bones and muscles will be weaker. They would have to have higher radiation tolerance, etc. They would effectively be a distinct species.
copyright1997reloaded
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Funny movie, Micheal Keaton:
Each copy 'lost' something from the make up of the original.
A very thought provoking post, especially the bolded bit. I’m a big fan of tech in general, but I think your perspective on the negative fallout is interesting. Thanks for sharing it.
Retch The Grate
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I'm definitely on team "teleport = death".
Having thought about it a fair bit, for me the trick is continuity of consciousness. A digital upload of me is just a copy, but if we were able to make computational elements that could be cybernetically added to our brain such that the neurons connected to them and could start using them to build structures, and if you slowly added more and more of these elements so at no point you stopped being you, and then as organic bits died off from old age you became more and more the you that was running on the hardware, that would satisfy my sense of it being a single continuous consciousness.
I'm not 100% sure that me in the morning is the same me as the one that went to sleep. I'm even less sure that the the me that woke up after general anesthetic is the same as the one that got put under pre-surgery. But those are such everyday occurences we don't tend to stop and doubt our continued existence...
Having thought about it a fair bit, for me the trick is continuity of consciousness. A digital upload of me is just a copy, but if we were able to make computational elements that could be cybernetically added to our brain such that the neurons connected to them and could start using them to build structures, and if you slowly added more and more of these elements so at no point you stopped being you, and then as organic bits died off from old age you became more and more the you that was running on the hardware, that would satisfy my sense of it being a single continuous consciousness.
I'm not 100% sure that me in the morning is the same me as the one that went to sleep. I'm even less sure that the the me that woke up after general anesthetic is the same as the one that got put under pre-surgery. But those are such everyday occurences we don't tend to stop and doubt our continued existence...
Retch The Grate
Full time employment: Posting here.
On the longevity front, I think medicine has proven to be much slower to advance than computers, and that Ray is overly optimistic on that front because he really doesn't want to die, not because the rate of advancement actually fits his timeline.
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