Make a Power Move?

[travelover]

I thought the French were building new, more advanced nuclear plants to replace their aging ones.

Wait - you mean there is intelligence outside the USA?

 

[Winemaker]

Thanks to all who have pointed to coal as the “solution” to all our problems. Glad that CO2 thing is a hoax...

I agree with Gumby that nuclear is best for creating a baseload power source but that is not currently feasible solution currently. While natty gas is the "cleaner" choice it has it's drawbacks, as I mentioned. While coal has been a reliable fuel of choice in the past, it, too, has political drawbacks. It also depend on what kind of economy one embraces for their particular region. A manufacturing economy requires large amounts of KVA, whereas a service economy, demands less. Renewables have their place but cannot be used everywhere.

Nobody is denying that CO2 levels are rising. And I wish coal was the answer to California's problems, or anybody's problem, but it is not. California's problems are beyond a simple solution, and are definitely beyond my engineering and MBA degrees.

 

[mpeirce]

Most of the companies (or their subsidiaries) that knew how to build nuclear power plants have gone out of business, halting any realistic hope of a nuclear power renaissance.

There is a lot of work going into so called 4G nuclear reactors. Even Bill Gates is pouring significant amounts of money into this.

And the US is certainly still building nuclear reactors for new Naval vessels.

 

[Ronstar]

Even though we live within 7.5 miles of power plants sporting 4 nuclear reactors, we still have our share of power outages. Almost all are weather related. The local Exelon nuclear fleet creates a glut of electrical power. But that's not stopping the new $1 billion gas plant that is under construction.

 

[ncbill]

There is a lot of work going into so called 4G nuclear reactors. Even Bill Gates is pouring significant amounts of money into this.

And the US is certainly still building nuclear reactors for new Naval vessels.

None of which will be licensed here in the U.S apart from experiments or possibly for remote military installations.

For civilian power production, only existing PWR designs or conservative variations thereof have a chance of getting approved.

As for France, their reactors can produce weapons-grade nuclear material, so no chance that design ever get approved for civilian power plants here in the U.S.

I understand the engineering appeal ("hey, we only need to refuel once per decade or so") but nuclear power plants have proven to be breathtakingly expensive compared to fossil fuel-fired power plants... so regulators prefer the cheapest plant to build, which means we all better hope that natural gas stays as cheap as it is currently.

 

[Brat]

On the west coast, it is not the availability of electric power that is an issue (we wheel a lot from Oregon to California via the InterTie system from dams along the Columbia River) it is the distribution system. Actually the power lines and associated distribution costs are the most expensive, and capital intensive, part of operating local electric operations.

It doesn't matter, for discussion of the fires in CA, how the electricity was generated.

 

[RockLife]

I Believed You

Tomorrow we may have to evacuate the third-world country that we live in, and we might contact a real estate agent to see if we want to make the evacuation permanent.

There's no reliable power here.

I've lived in some 2nd/3rd world places so I actually thought you were talking about some place like Honduras, Nicaragua, somewhere in Africa, Asia, etc.

I'm now in Puerto Rico with its notoriously bad power, and there is a lot of solar business going on here. No refueling, no motor noise, etc. Small windmills are often combined with the solar but they do make some noise so placement is important for them.

But a power wall is a perfect solution for CA, no solar panels needed. Store a bunch of power while you have power, and use it while the juice is off. You can also use it to time shift your power draw into the cheapest time periods. Run off your batteries during peak cost periods and recharge during the low cost time.

It may cost a lot but it will definitely improve the value of your CA home.

 

[HFWR]

Here in Stepfordville, we have lots of tree-lined boulevards. Trouble is, most are also “powerline-lined” as well. I see crews out trimming pretty regularly, which makes for some gawd-awful homely-looking trees...

My hood has buried utilities.

 

[Gumby]

I'd love to have buried utilities, but when you live in an older, fully developed part of the country, that is just not an option.

 

[NW-Bound]

But a power wall is a perfect solution for CA, no solar panels needed. Store a bunch of power while you have power, and use it while the juice is off. You can also use it to time shift your power draw into the cheapest time periods. Run off your batteries during peak cost periods and recharge during the low cost time.

It may cost a lot but it will definitely improve the value of your CA home.

For enough storage to last several days of outage, you will need a bank of Powerwall. For most people, one Powerwall may barely last 1 night.

The time shifting is good to save money, but cycling the battery wears it sooner. You may want to read the fine print to see how many kWh of throughput they guarantee.

That said, if you do not mind the cost, it's a very clean solution.

 

[Running_Man]

If one of the main problems is brush along the distribution lines, I'd think PG&E would bring in about a thousand workers and do it right away.

Yes, California is a terrible place and no one should move here, especially the lower population north coast.

You cannot clear any land without an environmental impact study prior to undertaking the clearing, then a need to have the study reviewed, proposals offset, re-propose and hopefully finally get the approval of the plan.

All you have to do is follow all of the 1300 pages of brush clearing regulations
https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/politics/sdut-dispute-erupts-over-brush-clearing-fire-plan-2013apr05-story.html

 

[NW-Bound]

You cannot clear any land without an environmental impact study prior to undertaking the clearing, then a need to have the study reviewed, proposals offset, re-propose and hopefully finally get the approval of the plan.

All you have to do is follow all of the 1300 pages of brush clearing regulations
https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/politics/sdut-dispute-erupts-over-brush-clearing-fire-plan-2013apr05-story.html

I cannot read the above article without a subscription, but wonder if PG&E has to do paper work for all of its 106,681 miles of distribution lines.

 

[HFWR]

I'd love to have buried utilities, but when you live in an older, fully developed part of the country, that is just not an option.

The above-ground power lines are on the main road outside my hood, less than 1/4 mile away, so not that much protection against the typical ravages of north Texas, i.e. tornadoes.

 

[kcowan]

I'd love to have buried utilities, but when you live in an older, fully developed part of the country, that is just not an option.

We lived in a planned community in the early 70s. No wires except traffic lights. Even TV was all buried cable, no antennas. It was definitley an improvement.

 

[Koolau]

Yep. Wildfires are part of the fabric of our state, as is the year round outdoor weather and 800+ miles of coastline.

I'll be kayaking in the ocean in shorts today under 75 degree temps, hoping to see sea lions and dolphins. And I will likely be doing the same all this coming winter. That is pretty hard for us, and many others, to put a price on, and the primary reason we will likely never leave. Which, by the way, we can easily afford to, as can most everyone we associate with here in Coastal S. California.

If there is another state that can offer the same year-round outdoor lifestyle at a similar or lower cost, I'm all ears. So far we have traveled to @ 40 of our 50 states and haven't yet found it. We've encountered fabulous lifestyles for a PORTION of the year for sure. But year-round? No, not so far.

The comments here have been incredibly interesting, often entertaining. California . . . it's not for everyone, that is for sure. It's great that those of you that dislike it have 49 other options. ?

In 15 pages of responses to TAl's original lament about electrical power in Cali, I don't think I've read a single response denigrating Cali as a "place" or seen a statement that folks don't like Cali. I think most of us would agree that Cali is a fantastic place. I think what most of us have responded to is Cali's power issues which have gotten a lot worse of late - maybe a snarky comment or two about how much it costs to live in Cali. as well.

Dealing with potential fires by shutting down transmission lines may be new, but Cali's electrical issues have been in the news for the past 50 years. Maybe we're just wondering why a beautiful state like Cali can't seem to get it's electrical needs sorted out. Even when we sound a bit snarky, I don't think it's any worse than a wee bit of envy, and probably more a "prayer" that you all get it sorted out. YMMV

 

[mpeirce]

For civilian power production, only existing PWR designs or conservative variations thereof have a chance of getting approved.

Of course they aren't licensed yet, they are still being designed and tested.

If the existing regulatory regime remains in place, there isn't much chance of them being built in the US (though you can bet the Chinese and others will build them). But there is a pretty big push to reform this. Much depends on who's running the government in the next few years.

And I mentioned that Naval reactors are still being built in response to you saying that basically American nuclear know-how is gone. It's not what it was back in the day, but it's not gone either.

 

[ncbill]

Of course they aren't licensed yet, they are still being designed and tested.

If the existing regulatory regime remains in place, there isn't much chance of them being built in the US (though you can bet the Chinese and others will build them). But there is a pretty big push to reform this. Much depends on who's running the government in the next few years.

And I mentioned that Naval reactors are still being built in response to you saying that basically American nuclear know-how is gone. It's not what it was back in the day, but it's not gone either.

Most of the know-how to build civilian nuclear power reactors was long ago lost to foreign firms...with their demise those utilities here who want to continue with their nuclear power plant plans already under construction have been forced to abandon them, with only a few exceptions, which again, are likely to be abandoned sooner rather than later.

 

[kcowan]

Even when we sound a bit snarky, I don't think it's any worse than a wee bit of envy, and probably more a "prayer" that you all get it sorted out. YMMV

Some of our best friends live in Cali. We are in awe that they will tolerate all the crap. But we enjoy visiting. They all escape to Mexico to maintain their sanity.

 

[Ronstar]

I'd love to have buried utilities, but when you live in an older, fully developed part of the country, that is just not an option.

+1. I’ve been nervous ever since a lightning strike set the telephone/power pole in front of our place on fire. The power company put out the fire and rewired some stuff. I told them that I wanted a new pole, but they just cut off the damaged top few feet of the existing pole. But it looks like the lightning split a lot of the remaining pole.

 

[HI Bill]

We lived in a planned community in the early 70s. No wires except traffic lights. Even TV was all buried cable, no antennas. It was definitley an improvement.

I love the appearance of buried cables, but they bring their own problems. During periods of high rains, vaults can flood, and I've lost power during those events until the vault drained. Also, the occasional manhole cover blows off due to built-up gasses in underground vaults. And expen$ive!

 

[ncbill]

I love the appearance of buried cables, but they bring their own problems. During periods of high rains, vaults can flood, and I've lost power during those events until the vault drained. Also, the occasional manhole cover blows off due to built-up gasses in underground vaults. And expen$ive!

Maybe in the densest urban areas but underground utilities here are direct burial cable, no large vaults required...only recently was conduit (e.g AT&T's new fiber runs) required.

 

[W2R]

I love the appearance of buried cables, but they bring their own problems. During periods of high rains, vaults can flood, and I've lost power during those events until the vault drained. Also, the occasional manhole cover blows off due to built-up gasses in underground vaults. And expen$ive!

I don't know of any neighborhoods around here with buried utilities. But then, with our high water table, any hole or trench they might dig for that purpose would surely fill up with water pretty quickly.

We do have some underground drainage pipes and canals to help with potential flooding, but I think that's about all.

 

[NW-Bound]

Around my metropolitan area here, all subdivisions built in the last 40 years have underground utilities. Homes built in the 50s or 60s have back alleys for garbage trucks, and utility poles. Back alleys have been long gone.

This may be true in California also. There are simply more older neighborhoods there.

 

[HI Bill]

Maybe in the densest urban areas but underground utilities here are direct burial cable, no large vaults required...only recently was conduit (e.g AT&T's new fiber runs) required.

There must be vaults where the trunk lines split off to the individual houses or to the condo complexes? I'm by no means an expert, but in my former neighborhood, we had ~4'x5' vaults where the power went onto the condominium property. And of course, downtown, in urban areas.

 

[ncbill]

There must be vaults where the trunk lines split off to the individual houses or to the condo complexes? I'm by no means an expert, but in my former neighborhood, we had ~4'x5' vaults where the power went onto the condominium property. And of course, downtown, in urban areas.

Distribution lines outside the complex are aboveground, including telephone.

Power comes from the pole at the street onto the property via direct burial cable to large green above-ground boxes (I'm assuming those are the step-down transformers) then to individual homes.

Similarly, telephone & cable come from the pole then run underground to aboveground boxes before running underground again to individual homes.

I assume if AT&T decides it's worth it to run fiber in our neighborhood they'll have to pull conduit first as they did on the main street outside our neighborhood...that contractor hit a natural gas line....the air went all "swimmy" before the pipeline was repaired.