More evidence FIRE is alien to the masses...

[W2R]

All HOAs are not created equal. We have one (there are 8 total lots here, but just 4 houses so far), costs $200 a year (to maintain the dirt road and dock) and my neighbor has 3 cars on blocks (we only have one) and periodically fixes the Corvette enough to do some drunken donuts in his front yard. Oh, and he fixes boats for a "living" so there are usually 8 or 10 of those next door. To say nothing of the ATVs. But he's never once complained about the dogs barking....

Hmm! That definitely does not sound like one of the "no oil stains" HOA's! Of course the best HOA would be the one that regulates the neighbors, but not me. Maybe I can find that one!

Decisions, decisions! It's not like I have TOTALLY rejected the idea of an HOA for me, just maybe 99.99%. I don't want oil stains on my carport/garage floor either, but I just don't want somebody else telling me to do my chores.

 

[REWahoo]

Want2, my advice would be to take a look at the details of any HOA restrictions which might apply to a house you are interested in. Restrictions (and the degree to which they are enforced) vary significantly from one neighborhood to the next. I'm not a fan of Gestapo HOA rules either, but prefer to live in an area with at least a few reasonable restrictions. As an example, our rural subdivision has only only a dozen or so rules pertaining to things like no mobile homes, no farm animals (other than horses - after all this is TX ), residential only, houses must be a minimum of 1,500 sq ft, etc. Nothing regulates when or if you have to mow your grass (or even have grass), what color you can paint your house, or driveway oil stains.

I believe the restrictions work to our benefit based on a similar sized subdivision a mile down the road with no restrictions and no HOA. It has a few nice homes interspersed with what can only be described as shacks. Not someplace most of us would probably like to live.

 

[Jay_Gatsby]

FIRE may be alien to the masses, but trying to educate people about FIRE is equivalent to tilting at windmills. The vast majority of people know they need to save more and spend less, but they just don't do it. These are the same people who know they need to quit smoking, eat better and exercise, and again don't do such things. It often takes a watershed moment (in the form of a financial or health scare) to get them to change. Words along just won't do it.

Right now I'm trying to convince one of my younger brothers that he needs to go back to school after 10 years out of college. Why? Because he wants to break into a new field with a minimal amount of experience in that field (about a year) and doesn't have a job in that field (he was recently laid off from his company). He is vehemently opposed to getting even a graduate certificate (about 6 months worth of work), which would at least demonstrate a commitment to the field and help him land a job. Even when I've explained this to him, he still won't consider it. He seems convinced that simply sending resumes will get him a position. Yet even I wouldn't hire him because he won't put any skin in the game.

This is the same situation when it comes to people and FIRE. I won't help anyone understand what it takes to FIRE until they show a commitment towards achieving it.

 

[TickTock]

Now that easy credit is quickly disappearing, People still need that money fix. It's much like trying to ween a drug addict off of methamphetamines, it's very difficult to do. We have a large population that is addicted to easy money that came from home equity lines of credit and a never ending barrage of credit card offers. Now that their supply has been cut off, they still need to satisfy their financial craving, so they're raiding 401Ks. Americans have to experience all of their wants and desires immediately with no waiting period as deferred gratification has gone by the wayside. This should come as absolutely no surprise to anyone. It's much like having pity for drug addicts as they suffer withdrawal symptoms.

Very insightful!

 

[youbet]

These are the same people who know they need to quit smoking, eat better and exercise, and again don't do such things.

I don't doubt this is what you've observed in your own life, but my anecdotal observations differ. I know people who definitely don't LBYM yet are health nuts and spend plenty on exercise classes, personal trainers, club memberships, trendy health foods, etc. One of the most frugal people I know, my college roommate from decades ago, is both a smoker and a saver. He fully understands he should quit, that the money he spends on smoking could be saved, but just can't.

So, again, like with all anecdotal examples folks reference, I'm sure this is what you've observed. But in my life I just haven't seen that correlation to the extent you have.

 

[Nords]

Hmm! That definitely does not sound like one of the "no oil stains" HOA's! Of course the best HOA would be the one that regulates the neighbors, but not me. Maybe I can find that one!
I don't want oil stains on my carport/garage floor either, but I just don't want somebody else telling me to do my chores.

Want2, my advice would be to take a look at the details of any HOA restrictions which might apply to a house you are interested in. Restrictions (and the degree to which they are enforced) vary significantly from one neighborhood to the next. I'm not a fan of Gestapo HOA rules either, but prefer to live in an area with at least a few reasonable restrictions.

Exactly. Another option would be hiding in plain sight.

We live in a HOA of 14,000 homes (and the condo developments have their own HOAs for a second layer of "management"). Most of the rules consist of "Don't let your neighbors see or hear your crap" along with "If your neighbors can't see or hear your crap it then it's OK". Among that many homes the administration is too busy keeping up with the minimum cyclic routine to bother to go on Gestapo inspections or to audit permits. They pretty much only respond to neighbor complaints or the most egregious violations, and they know better than to request a higher assessment for "enforcement". They don't ask, I don't tell, and we don't bother each other.

The HOA board is big enough, too, to accomodate all the retired debaters and Robert's Rules people and professional committee volunteers without them actually being able to get enough of a majority to punish the rest of us. The real political wannabes and neighborhood Nazis are encouraged to run for the neighborhood boards where they can assist with city govt & the state legislature.

I think HOAs are good when you have a critical mass of variety & talent. The problems come when you only have 50-60 homes, the same people keep taking the same jobs, and every year they're looking for more things to get involved in.

 

[deserat]

Yup, Nords, 50-60 homes and bylaws that say they can raise the rates a certain percentage every year 'cuz they can! I left that HOA in a hurry.....oh, and notices saying that it's OK to put flower bowls in front of your house - we're sorry we denied that before - huh?