Mr. Money Mustache Divorce Blog Post

[tulak]

I have 2 children and was never married. Avoiding marriage is why I'm wealthy.



Are you saying that births are impossible without marriage?



That was true 50 years ago, not anymore.

Nope. I’m pretty sure I didn’t say that.

And if you avoided kids, you’d probably be even wealthier.

 

[Mr. Tightwad]

Nope. I’m pretty sure I didn’t say that.

And if you avoided kids, you’d probably be even wealthier.

Kids cost money, and having them isn't for everyone. I wanted mine.

Paying for kids comes with a lot of benefits.

Alimony and 50% of what you own going out the door via family court doesn't yield those benefits.

 

[pj.mask]

Is being married required to have kids? I agree it’s not and didn’t see anyone say that. But if you take a look at people in the social/financial group that populated this forum or the bogleheads - I’d bet over 90% were married before kids.

Reading through, I don’t understand the pushback on speculation? Who cares if someone says they think Mrs. MMM divorced so she could blow that dough? I never read anything saying their ‘bets’ were ‘facts’ and an entertaining read. I don’t see the ‘you don’t know for sure so you are speculating’ comments adding any value to the conversation.

 

[Mr. Tightwad]

Is being married required to have kids? I agree it’s not and didn’t see anyone say that. But if you take a look at people in the social/financial group that populated this forum or the bogleheads - I’d bet over 90% were married before kids.

Reading through, I don’t understand the pushback on speculation? Who cares if someone says they think Mrs. MMM divorced so she could blow that dough? I never read anything saying their ‘bets’ were ‘facts’ and an entertaining read. I don’t see the ‘you don’t know for sure so you are speculating’ comments adding any value to the conversation.

40% of kids in the US are born outside of marriage. The very tiny number of people on retirement forums don't represent the rest of the country.

 

[street]

Yikes! 105 posts on "Mr. Money Mustache Divorce Blog Post". LOL >>> well, I guess it has been interesting to say the least.

 

[clifp]

40% of kids in the US are born outside of marriage. The very tiny number of people on retirement forums don't represent the rest of the country.

Wow, I thought for sure there was a catch to this statistic. Turns out there isn't. I am surprised because Teen pregnancies are at near record lows, which I thought would be the big contributor. Nope.

You learn something every day.

 

[Teacher Terry]

Clif, I am shocked and saddened by the statistics. I don’t get the trend of having babies and then getting married which many seem to be doing.

 

[REWahoo]

40% of kids in the US are born outside of marriage.

Wow, I thought for sure there was a catch to this statistic. Turns out there isn't.

Little did I know how prophetic my dad was when he kept telling me, "You'll run across far more bastards in your lifetime than you can imagine.".

 

[brewer12345]

What I think of having kids outside of marriage would have me with an infraction/banned in a heartbeat. MMM is at best a grafter, so who cares? Kids are too important to have without a stable, committed family. That means marriage, for better or for worse.

 

[Mr. Tightwad]

What I think of having kids outside of marriage would have me with an infraction/banned in a heartbeat. MMM is at best a grafter, so who cares? Kids are too important to have without a stable, committed family. That means marriage, for better or for worse.

We agree that raising kids in a stable committed family is vital.

And since Clifp is correct about teen pregnancies, what does that lead us to conclude?

 

[Mr. Tightwad]

Clif, I am shocked and saddened by the statistics. I don’t get the trend of having babies and then getting married which many seem to be doing.

Are you sure about that? I think they are having kids and are unable to get married.

 

[geeky_grrl]

A lot of Europe has higher percentage of children out of wedlock than the US https://yaleglobal.yale.edu/content/out-wedlock-births-rise-worldwide

If the parents aren't married but are in a stable relationship I don't see how that harms the kids. Unfortunately that doesn't seem to be the norm in the US (but seems more common in other countries with low marriage rates).

 

[Chuckanut]

40% of kids in the US are born outside of marriage. The very tiny number of people on retirement forums don't represent the rest of the country.

As a former teacher who was often expected to be a "male role model" for the sons of single moms, I am very aware of that fact. Sadly aware. Very sadly aware.

 

[brewer12345]

We agree that raising kids in a stable committed family is vital.

And since Clifp is correct about teen pregnancies, what does that lead us to conclude?

There are a lot of worthless "human beings" among us.

 

[Souschef]

And one woman's penny pincher is another woman's frugal and intelligent. Finding someone who matches our individual levels of frugality is the challenge.

+1
Even though it was many years ago, when DW was married to her late husband at the age of 19, she had a clicker to keep track of how much she could spend for groceries.
She does not have that clicker now, but a lot of the same habits are carried forward, bless her.

 

[purplesky]

Kids cost money, and having them isn't for everyone. I wanted mine.

Paying for kids comes with a lot of benefits.

Alimony and 50% of what you own going out the door via family court doesn't yield those benefits.

The trick is to marry a woman with a good work ethic. I almost pulled the marriage trigger with my kids mom but unfortunately she was a lazy AA flight attendant who didn't want to fly her trips.
Back in the day when flight attendants made great money.

So child support was much cheaper and ironically my kid ended up living with me full time in 4th grade and all the way through college.

Many men get killed with child support. Having kids as a single dad is fine ONLY if you can out earn your child support order.

Many women see child support as a paycheck for themselves and not the child.

So hopefully single parents these days are finding the right person to co-parent a child with.

MMM will have no problem affording child support if their divorce settlement included it. With his massive blog income I am guessing MMM is paying child support.

 

[Teacher Terry]

They could be sharing custody 50/50. Then no one would be paying.

 

[purplesky]

They could be sharing custody 50/50. Then no one would be paying.

If she received half ownership of the blog and the MMM brand then child support was probably not ordered.

The lawyers and the judge probably had a good laugh when they saw MMMs financials and actual business income statements.

I wonder if the judge remembered seeing MMM riding his bike on PBS claiming he lives on 25k a year.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

If she received half ownership of the blog and the MMM brand then child support was probably not ordered.

The lawyers and the judge probably had a good laugh when they saw MMMs financials and actual business income statements.

I wonder if the judge remembered seeing MMM riding his bike on PBS claiming he lives on 25k a year.

Are those financial statements during a divorce case public documents?Could that be why he put off writing about the divorce?

 

[aja8888]

Are those financial statements during a divorce case public documents?Could that be why he put off writing about the divorce?

Generally no...usually held under "attorney/client privilege".

If the war between the "parties" gets bad enough, they usually hire a forensic accountant to see who is hiding what from who.

 

[haha]

40% of kids in the US are born outside of marriage. The very tiny number of people on retirement forums don't represent the rest of the country.

Upper middle-class parents are almost always married. Welfare recipients are almost never married. Increasingly, lower-income working people are not married, whether they have children or not.

Hard for an American to accept, but social class tells, and increasingly classes marry within their own class.

Ha

 

[Mr. Tightwad]

They could be sharing custody 50/50. Then no one would be paying.

I have heard stories of 50/50 where the man still pays. Since I can't prove it, I won't tell you its true. But I bet your statement is inaccurate. Now if thats how things really worked, that would be a step in the right direction.

 

[Mr. Tightwad]

The trick is to marry a woman with a good work ethic. I almost pulled the marriage trigger with my kids mom but unfortunately she was a lazy AA flight attendant who didn't want to fly her trips.
Back in the day when flight attendants made great money.

So child support was much cheaper and ironically my kid ended up living with me full time in 4th grade and all the way through college.

Many men get killed with child support. Having kids as a single dad is fine ONLY if you can out earn your child support order.

Many women see child support as a paycheck for themselves and not the child.

So hopefully single parents these days are finding the right person to co-parent a child with.

MMM will have no problem affording child support if their divorce settlement included it. With his massive blog income I am guessing MMM is paying child support.

Did you know flight attendants have the 5th highest divorce rate among occupations? I realize you didn't marry, just pointing it out.

Question: When your child lived with you 4th grade to college, did you still have to pay the mother child support?

There is wisdom in your post, but we differ on the "trick". Sure a work ethic goes a long way. But any male who will listen, I explain to them that marriage is absolutely something to never do. What MMM is going through I wouldn't wish on any guy.

Since this is a retirement board, the "older" crowd it attracts, will have experiences that do not support my advice. But what the people here have to realize is, the world has changed. I probably would have gotten married as well, if this was the 60's or 70's. The world used to be a place where you could get married and stay married. Those days are over.

For example, the most current trend is for the woman to claim "she's afraid". Once this is on record, the police/judge act accordingly. Supervised visitation to your kids, restraint orders, you get to communicate in an app to document your dialogue, to determine if your "abusive", etc

All of that on top of child support, alimony, court fee's, etc.

No thanks, I think I will tell any who shall listen what could happen, the minute she decides she's "unhappy".

 

[Gunny]

I had 50/50 custody of my girls and I still paid child support.

 

[Sunset]

Upper middle-class parents are almost always married.

Because it's a social expectation, and easily afforded.

Welfare recipients are almost never married.

They get more money in total when not married as many welfare programs are means tested, so a single mom at home married to another person loses benefits if/when the spouse works. Better to be single and have a working boyfriend.

Increasingly, lower-income working people are not married, whether they have children or not.

Even poor folks view marriage as a big expensive event so they wait until they can do it right.

Hard for an American to accept, but social class tells, and increasingly classes marry within their own class.

Most people travel within their own class, so they never interact with people from distant classes. Once I read most folks back in the 1970's married someone with 9 blocks of their house, don't know if it's true.
All I know is I have never seen or Bill Gates or Miley Cyrus or Jennifer Lopez in my shopping and when I travel to other countries.
I did once actually see over a few tables at the dining room an IL politician's wife on a cruise ship, just before she went off to prison. We didn't talk.