Munger: “Envy, not greed” (CNBC)

[steelyman]

CNBC posted this article about Charlie Munger. I think it might be food for thought. There are a couple of subforums here that might be appropriate but I chose this one.

Billionaire investor Charlie Munger says he’s never cared about comparing his riches to the money of others.

Rather, he says his motivation in accumulating wealth has always been about securing independence, the freedom to do what he wishes in business and in life — and he wishes more people would follow his example.

Billionaire investor Charlie Munger: The world is 'driven by envy,' not 'greed' https://www.cnbc.com/2022/12/10/billionaire-charlie-munger-world-is-driven-by-envy-not-greed.html

 

[Gumby]

I'm willing to bet that he long ago achieved the independence he talks about. He continues to do what he does because that's what he enjoys doing. If there is anything to envy about him, it is that he has found his niche and appears happy in it.

 

[NW-Bound]

Yes, making money can be fun, even if you don't need it.

Don't gardeners typically grow more than they can eat, hobbyist carpenters build things, and home cooks bake cakes to give away?

 

[HawkOwl]

To have the respect of your peers, and to practice your craft with objective success… what can be more satisfying? Especially when you are in your 90’s and the world would otherwise ignore you.

 

[Midpack]

Yes, making money can be fun, even if you don't need it.

Don't gardeners typically grow more than they can eat, hobbyist carpenters build things, and home cooks bake cakes to give away?

I agree with your point re: Munger and the mega wealthy set, but most of us can’t know this. No matter what history suggests, we can’t know what the future will bring, all sorts of new risks loom - climate and all the issues that stem from population to name a couple. We all try to improve FI just in case.

 

[NW-Bound]

I agree with your point re: Munger and the mega wealthy set, but most of us can’t know this. No matter what history suggests, we can’t know what the future will bring, all sorts of new risks loom. We all try to improve FI just in case.

True. I am nowhere at the level where I can say I will always have more than I need. I was talking about Munger still working.

 

[Mr._Graybeard]

I'm willing to bet that he long ago achieved the independence he talks about. He continues to do what he does because that's what he enjoys doing. If there is anything to envy about him, it is that he has found his niche and appears happy in it.

This thread reminds me of something Andrew Carnegie wrote in 1868, when he was 33:

I propose to take an income no greater than $50,000 per annum! Beyond this I need ever earn, make no effort to increase my fortune, but spend the surplus each year for benevolent purposes! Let us cast aside business forever, except for others. Let us settle in Oxford and I shall get a thorough education, making the acquaintance of literary men. I figure that this will take three years' active work. I shall pay especial attention to speaking in public. We can settle in London and I can purchase a controlling interest in some newspaper or live review and give the general management of it attention, taking part in public matters, especially those connected with education and improvement of the poorer classes. Man must have no idol and the amassing of wealth is one of the worst species of idolatry! No idol is more debasing than the worship of money! Whatever I engage in I must push inordinately; therefore should I be careful to choose that life which will be the most elevating in its character. To continue much longer overwhelmed by business cares and with most of my thoughts wholly upon the way to make more money in the shortest time, must degrade me beyond hope of permanent recovery. I will resign business at thirty-five, but during these ensuing two years I wish to spend the afternoons in receiving instruction and in reading systematically!

Of course instead of pursuing the goals he professed, he went on to build what became US Steel and and ended up one of the world's richest men. He gave most of it away in his old age, of course, but I find it interesting that one of history's greatest Artists of the Deal, as a young man, found the idea of amassing a great fortune to be abhorrent.

 

[audreyh1]

Carnegie libraries are found all over the world!

 

[steelyman]

This thread reminds me of something Andrew Carnegie wrote in 1868, when he was 33:

Of course instead of pursuing the goals he professed, he went on to build what became US Steel and and ended up one of the world's richest men. He gave most of it away in his old age, of course, but I find it interesting that one of history's greatest Artists of the Deal, as a young man, found the idea of amassing a great fortune to be abhorrent.

Well, he did wait until he reached financial independence before all that benevolence. [emoji3]

[ADDED] I thought all those Gilded Agers tried to out do each other.

 

[OldShooter]

I am a Buffett/Munger fan. In fact I have the 2013 rubber ducks pair on my desk as I type this.

​

But I think it is greed that drives. Specifically greed that evolution has bred into us. It is greed that gets the riches to get more riches, to survive famines and to have many wives, consequently propagating the greedy genes more widely into the gene pool, making for greedy offspring. There is not necessarily a moral dimension, it is just that greed is a winner in the evolutionary lottery. Unlike envy.

 

[GravitySucks]

Well, he did wait until he reached financial independence before all that benevolence. [emoji3]

[ADDED] I thought all those Gilded Agers tried to out do each other.

I just read David Nasaws Andrew Carnegie bio. He would sometimes promise a library or other charitable endeavor and have to delay it until Carnegie Steel paid it's dividends.

After selling out to Morgan he could not spend his money fast enough to deplete his wealth. $460,000,000 5% Gold Bonds paid out more than he could spend. His wealth was at that time was over 2% of USA GDP. (2% of USA GDP now would $460B)

Interesting a complicated guy. I recommend the book.

 

[aja8888]

.

After selling out to Morgan he could not spend his money fast enough to deplete his wealth. $460,000,000 5% Gold Bonds paid out more than he could spend. His wealth was at that time was over 2% of USA GDP. (2% of USA GDP now would $460B)

He must not have been married.

 

[audreyh1]

I just read David Nasaws Andrew Carnegie bio. He would sometimes promise a library or other charitable endeavor and have to delay it until Carnegie Steel paid it's dividends.

After selling out to Morgan he could not spend his money fast enough to deplete his wealth. $460,000,000 5% Gold Bonds paid out more than he could spend. His wealth was at that time was over 2% of USA GDP. (2% of USA GDP now would $460B)

Interesting a complicated guy. I recommend the book.

2% of US GDP! That boggles the mind!

OK today the top guys are under 1% US GDP:
Elon Musk $185B
Bernard Arnault $185B
Gautam Adani $135B
Jeff Bezos $114B
Warren Buffet $106B
Bill Gates $106B

 

[NW-Bound]

All that money, and did Carnegie have AC in the summer? Wagyu beef anytime he wanted? Could his horse carriage do 0-60 mph in 2.3 seconds? Took less than 1 day to go to Europe or Tahiti?

No, I would rather be me.

 

[braumeister]

All that money, and did Carnegie have AC in the summer? Wagyu beef anytime he wanted? Could his horse carriage do 0-60 mph in 2.3 seconds? Took less than 1 day to go to Europe or Tahiti?

No, I would rather be me.

As far as he knew, he lived wonderfully well. 100 years from now, people will wonder how we put up with such primitive conditions.

Assuming there are any people left by then.

 

[Markola]

All that money, and did Carnegie have AC in the summer? Wagyu beef anytime he wanted? Could his horse carriage do 0-60 mph in 2.3 seconds? Took less than 1 day to go to Europe or Tahiti?

No, I would rather be me.

And antibiotics. We’d seem like future people from outer space compared to just 100 years ago - when Munger was born!

 

[NW-Bound]

And antibiotics. We’d seem like future people from outer space compared to just 100 years ago - when Munger was born!

More than that. If Carnegie got the illness I had 10 years ago, he would not live till 83 and his money would be of no help. He was among the lucky ones.

It took a lot more advanced medicines than antibiotics, plus modern equipment and procedures to keep me alive to make this post now.

I am grateful for staying alive, I am not envious of nobody.

 

[NW-Bound]

As far as he knew, he lived wonderfully well. 100 years from now, people will wonder how we put up with such primitive conditions.

Assuming there are any people left by then.

I dunno. Would I want to live like people in "Blade Runner", or "Mad Max"?

 

[HawkOwl]

Memento mori. No amount of wealth will save me from every contingency. While I feel no envy towards those with outsized riches, I don’t choose to waste my precious remaining time making ever larger piles of it.

 

[aja8888]

Memento mori. No amount of wealth will save me from every contingency. While I feel no envy towards those with outsized riches, I don’t choose to waste my precious remaining time making ever larger piles of it.

I nominate this for Post of the Day!

 

[Closet_Gamer]

I dunno. Would I want to live like people in "Blade Runner", or "Mad Max"?

Or Ukraine?

It doesn't have to be post-apocoliptic to be a nightmare.

I think those of us in the US take for granted our multi-thousand mile borders with two super friendly countries. We are in no immediate jeapardy of being invaded by either Canada or Mexico. Nevermind having the Canadians shell Seattle into rubble.

While modern weapons have reduced the impact of distance, there is still a mighty big difference between living here or living in South Korea, Findland, Poland or India.

Its among our greatest blessings...along with everything you've pointed out re: meds, etc. Without tech and drugs invented in the last 40 years by DW 100% would have died in 2020.

Now we're planning Christmas together. Amazing!

 

[Rianne]

So, envy, jealousy, and greed are sins according to the Bible. I am nonreligious in the sense of any organized religion or man-made rule about belief in a higher power. I appreciate Charlie Munger's honesty. Of course, he can be honest and not give a sh-t what anyone thinks. I enjoy any interview with him. I suppose I wish I had someone else's talent but not their financial security. I'm good with ours.

https://www.gotquestions.org/difference-envy-jealousy.html

 

[Letj]

Yes, making money can be fun, even if you don't need it.

Don't gardeners typically grow more than they can eat, hobbyist carpenters build things, and home cooks bake cakes to give away?

It depends on what you have to do to get more and how much work is involved. You couldn’t pay me enough to work for more money unless it’s easy work with minimal effort. If I had to have a supervisor or someone telling me how much I needed to produce and when, I won’t want that job for all the money in the world.

 

[NW-Bound]

It depends on what you have to do to get more and how much work is involved. You couldn’t pay me enough to work for more money unless it’s easy work with minimal effort. If I had to have a supervisor or someone telling me how much I needed to produce and when, I won’t want that job for all the money in the world.

Right. Munger and Buffett do not have the work problems you described.

 

[ncbill]

I dunno. Would I want to live like people in "Blade Runner", or "Mad Max"?

Blade Runner was set in a world with substantially fewer people than currently.

Sounds good to me.