My response to shuttered "Busted a stealth wealth magnate today" thread

[GravitySucks]

I had no idea that white vans were different inside from vans of other colors, so I learned something from this thread.

But, I also have to re-think something: I keep meeting this one guy in a bar. He dresses up like a cowboy but always wears a porkpie hat.
After reading this thread, I'm not sure he is really a cowboy. However, he does drive a white van and often brags that he paid cash for it. So maybe he really is a cowboy.

Most of the child snatcher vans come in white so the businesses can easily paint their names on them or so the Free Candy lettering shows clearly.

Where can I find a PorkPie hat these days?

 

[REWahoo]

Where can I find a PorkPie hat these days?

Where else: https://www.amazon.com/Mens-Crushab...sr=1-2&nodeID=2474937011&keywords=porkpie+hat

 

[redduck]

Where can I find a PorkPie hat these days?

There's a bunch of porkpie hats for sale on Amazon, many of which you can get in two days time if you use prime.


edit: Darn. REWahoo beat me to it.

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

Am I the only one that thinks $6500 cash just really isn't that much?



Sent via mobile device. Please excuse any grammatical errors.

 

[FUEGO]

Agreed. But when a BUSINESS does a transaction, cash is not preferable. A $6500 cash transaction borders on money laundering. The BUSINESS also needs to pay sales tax on any purchases, whether it is a vehicle, a couch or a lawn mower - even if purchased from a private individual.

The government loses the ability to track income and expenses if you use cash.

There is categorically zero wrong legally with paying in cash. It is not illegal to deposit cash. You can even deposit $9,000 at a time a few times in a row and it's not illegal structuring ($10k being the limit where you must file Treasury paperwork). I've deposited a series of $8-9k cash deposits, I mentioned to the teller what I was doing and said I wanted to make sure they and I are in compliance in case they need to file a SAR. They said it was fine at the level I was working at.

You just can't split a transaction into multiple parts to get below $10k to avoid the reporting requirements - that's a violation of federal law (learned that in law school!).

This was a one off transaction, below the $10k threshold so zero risk of it being illegal in any way, shape, or form. Maybe the buyer gets called by his bank, and I assume he tells them the truth - bought a van on craigslist, here's the buyer's name and # if you want to verify, here's a photocopy of the transferred title.

As for tax compliance, when you register the car and have a new license issued, our state assesses a 3% use tax (= sales tax basically) based on NADA/KBB value, not actual sales price. So the guy is going to pay 3% of $6000-7000 or whatever the tax office carries this make/model/year at. No way to avoid it, though maybe you can protest that it's an old, crappy vehicle, broken down, worth less, etc. But I don't recall that being an option.

As for the government losing the ability to track income and expenses with cash payments - that may be true, but there is a very clear paper trail that a college intern at the IRS could track (again, assuming he actually withdrew the $ from BofA which the envelope said when he handed it to me).

 

[youbet]

Am I the only one that thinks $6500 cash just really isn't that much?

Nope...... On the contrary, I was surprised that folks were suspicious of someone paying cash in that amount.

 

[FUEGO]

Fuego says: "White construction vans are hot is what I conclude based on all the interest." (end quote)
+++

I don't know anything about the construction business...

"Hey, redduck, add that to the list."
"It's already on the list."

...but the color of the van (let's say white is a color) was mentioned several times (ok, at least once) in the now-deceased thread. Would a green or blue or brown van be less desirable? Anyhow, why would a white van be so desirable?

I can't hardly recall seeing this Ford work vans in any color but white. At least when I was researching comps to price this one, they were all white. Any other color is probably a custom job.

I don't know if they are configured differently inside, but these are mostly sold as cargo vans without seats inside. The new van then gets upfit with interior shelving/cabinets, a passenger cage to keep stuff from sliding into the front seats, and usually a roof rack for ladders or materials.

I think some other posters mentioned the white color making it easy to see lettering and signage applied to the van. Probably a lot of truth in that - easy to make the signage highly visible on a light colored van.

White construction van is like a red caboose or yellow taxi. It just seems like that's the color they always are.

 

[target2019]

Fuego says: "White construction vans are hot is what I conclude based on all the interest." (end quote)
+++

I don't know anything about the construction business...

"Hey, redduck, add that to the list."
"It's already on the list."

...but the color of the van (let's say white is a color) was mentioned several times (ok, at least once) in the now-deceased thread. Would a green or blue or brown van be less desirable? Anyhow, why would a white van be so desirable?

Just drove past ford dealership. All vans on street side were white. I think the reason is simply that white doesn't show dings, and you never wash it.

 

[FUEGO]

Nope...... On the contrary, I was surprised that folks were suspicious of someone paying cash in that amount.

That dollar amount didn't surprise me at all. For higher priced cars ($12-15k+), I might expect buyers to offer something safer like a cashier's check drawn on a bank while I watched. But can't imagine it being a big deal for lesser amounts. It's not like we're trading cash in a back alley at night (with the lightning flashing overhead).

We were inside a bank, covered with camera surveillance, middle of the day, bright outside, not in a dangerous part of town.

 

[target2019]

OMG. People are determined to get this thread closed again.

Why can't we talk about something else, like redduck discussing the color of the van, or the van buyer's attire?

Was he clean-shaven, or wearing a mustacle? A beard? Was he bald, or how he parted his hair?

Drivers of white vans have receding hairline, wear a do-rag, and have a stubble.

 

[audreyh1]

Am I the only one that thinks $6500 cash just really isn't that much?



Sent via mobile device. Please excuse any grammatical errors.

No. We received $4000 cash for a sailboat over 10 years ago.

 

[NW-Bound]

Speaking of white vans, I have never owned one. But my class C RV is built on what is called a cut-away van with rear dually, as all class C's are. And they are all white, whether GM or Ford.

My chassis is a GM Express Van 3500. Its hood was peeling. I forgot to take a photo, but what started out as a small blister slowly spread in 5 years into larger blisters. Eventually, I was able to peel the paint off in large pieces, each the size of my hand.

Needless to say, it made the RV look terrible, and I had to have the hood repainted. The rest of the cab including the doors is fine.

Driving around, I observe that this hood peeling is quite common with GM commercial vans. A search on the Web confirmed that this enraged quite a few van owners. It appeared that the hoods were produced at a different plant than the rest of the cab, hence the defect of the paint or process was limited to the hood only.

See some typical photos on the Web.

 

[Texas Proud]

If you or the seller aren't comfortable dealing with a big wad of cash, this is about the best way to be sure the check is good. I did take a cashier's check from an out-of-town buyer for a boat I sold on Craigslist, but prior to signing over the title I called the issuing (small town) bank to confirm they had issued the cashier's check to the buyer.

Checking is a smart thing to do... there are fake cashiers checks out there... same with money orders...

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

The white van thing reminds me of when my Dad was still in business (commercial HVAC). He bought vans that were ultimately destined for conversion (you know, the sweet paint jobs and electric couches) but got them before they were sent off. That way, they had AC, power windows and power locks. His favorite colors were tan and silver. When he bought them, they were in lots of 5. I don't remember him EVER having a white one in the fleet.

Sent via mobile device. Please excuse any grammatical errors.

 

[harley]

There is categorically zero wrong legally with paying in cash. It is not illegal to deposit cash. You can even deposit $9,000 at a time a few times in a row and it's not illegal structuring ($10k being the limit where you must file Treasury paperwork). I've deposited a series of $8-9k cash deposits, I mentioned to the teller what I was doing and said I wanted to make sure they and I are in compliance in case they need to file a SAR. They said it was fine at the level I was working at.

You just can't split a transaction into multiple parts to get below $10k to avoid the reporting requirements - that's a violation of federal law (learned that in law school!).

Prior to 2014 there were quite a few asset seizures based on the structuring laws that had nothing to do with avoiding reporting (examples below).

Victory Over the IRS: IRS Returns N.C. Man’s Entire Life Savings After Seizing It Through Civil Forfeiture - Institute for Justice

After Returning the Money They Stole, Feds Will Pay Interest and Legal Expenses Too - Hit & Run : Reason.com

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/26/u...unts-on-suspicion-no-crime-required.html?_r=0

Luckily the IRS changed it's policy regarding this practice in 2014. Hopefully there will be fewer abuses in the future.

 

[pb4uski]

Agreed. But when a BUSINESS does a transaction, cash is not preferable. A $6500 cash transaction borders on money laundering. The BUSINESS also needs to pay sales tax on any purchases, whether it is a vehicle, a couch or a lawn mower - even if purchased from a private individual.

The government loses the ability to track income and expenses if you use cash.

You obviously don't know the definition of money laundering if you think a business buying a piece of equipment in cash from someone via craigslist is money laundering. In the case of cars I have sold there is a bill of sale and that would be their documentation.

Also, BOTH individuals and businesses need to pay sales tax on purchases from a private individual and in the case of vehicles that need to be registered, sales tax would be collected when the buyer registers the vehicle.

As a seller on craigslist, I would not take a check from an individual or a business who I don't know, so the buyer needs to bring cash (though I like the idea of meeting the buyer at their bank and having the bank issue me a cashier's check).

As I'm sure you know each paper currency says on it "This note is legal tender for all debts, public and private" so it is perfectly legal to do cash transactions. While the government may lose the ability to track income and expenses if you use cash, the government isn't entitled to track income and expenses. Rather, each taxpayer (individuals and businesses) are obligated to report their income and expenses when they do their tax returns and have appropriate supporting documentation for said income and expenses.

 

[dixonge]

That dollar amount didn't surprise me at all. For higher priced cars ($12-15k+), I might expect buyers to offer something safer like a cashier's check drawn on a bank while I watched. But can't imagine it being a big deal for lesser amounts. It's not like we're trading cash in a back alley at night (with the lightning flashing overhead).

We were inside a bank, covered with camera surveillance, middle of the day, bright outside, not in a dangerous part of town.

We sold a CRV several years back, got $11k for it. Buyer met us in a town halfway between our home and his. 90-minute drive for us. We met at a bank. We negotiated a slight discount. He pulled out a check and a plastic bag full of cash. We went inside and he had everything converted to a cashier's check for us, so we didn't have to drive back home with stacks of cash in our lap (or worry about counterfeit bills). It was to be used for an employee to drive around the state of Texas in.

I also sold a big pickup truck a few years ago. Buyer flew in from a city around 500 miles away, started it up. Gave it the once-over, waved his taxi off, then tossed cash on the driver's seat. I signed the title and bill of sale, he drove off. He also only had one arm. He owned a construction company and his employees had managed to total the previous vehicle.

I also sold a car on eBay Motors. A used car dealer in Ohio paid a driver to fly down and pick the car up and drive it back. Paid by PayPal if I remember correctly.

None of these types of transactions caused me so much as a raised eyebrow. There are a million stories out there. Most are legitimate scenarios.

 

[Lakewood90712]

Where else: https://www.amazon.com/Mens-Crushab...sr=1-2&nodeID=2474937011&keywords=porkpie+hat

I always called them "Popeye Doyle hats" from the French Connection.

 

[papadad111]

Cash gives negotiating leverage. It's amazing how I can still haggle the price down on a car or lawnmower or hobby toy by a few hundred bucks once the cash comes peeling out.

Cash is king. It's the only way I roll when buying or selling stuff. Too much forgery of cashiers checks, stolen credit cards and the like.

Either bring cash or don't bother showing up ...

 

[Senator]

You obviously don't know the definition of money laundering if you think a business buying a piece of equipment in cash from someone via craigslist is money laundering. In the case of cars I have sold there is a bill of sale and that would be their documentation.

Also, BOTH individuals and businesses need to pay sales tax on purchases from a private individual and in the case of vehicles that need to be registered, sales tax would be collected when the buyer registers the vehicle.

As a seller on craigslist, I would not take a check from an individual or a business who I don't know, so the buyer needs to bring cash (though I like the idea of meeting the buyer at their bank and having the bank issue me a cashier's check).

As I'm sure you know each paper currency says on it "This note is legal tender for all debts, public and private" so it is perfectly legal to do cash transactions. While the government may lose the ability to track income and expenses if you use cash, the government isn't entitled to track income and expenses. Rather, each taxpayer (individuals and businesses) are obligated to report their income and expenses when they do their tax returns and have appropriate supporting documentation for said income and expenses.

100% correct. And if a business is audited by the IRS, and they say all the business expense are done in cash, it makes for a much more difficult audit. Receipts would help explain expenses, and you only need a receipt for transactions over $75.

I could have a MUCH higher income if I could use that method of accounting for all my expenses. "Yep, IRS agent, the last $100K of my expenses were all expenses under $75. All miscellaneous business expenses..."

That's when the IRS assigns an income level to you, and you pay the amount they say. Or just disappear and open up a new company.

 

[pb4uski]

My dad had an all cash business when I was growing up... a car wash that operated on quarters (no credit cards back in those days)... never a problem (not even an inquiry IIRC). There are many other businesses that do transactions in mostly cash and it is rarely a problem. As a practical matter, an IRS agent isn't going to bite off a dispute that they have no chance of proving in tax court so unless there is some angle to prove unreported revenue they are not going to waste their time with it.

 

[Senator]

My dad had an all cash business when I was growing up... a car wash that operated on quarters (no credit cards back in those days)... never a problem (not even an inquiry IIRC). There are many other businesses that do transactions in mostly cash and it is rarely a problem. As a practical matter, an IRS agent isn't going to bite off a dispute that they have no chance of proving in tax court so unless there is some angle to prove unreported revenue they are not going to waste their time with it.

Car washes and laundromats are well known to the IRS. They look at the vending machines, and water usage, and assign you a profit if you do not show one.

The IRS has detailed water statistics from many businesses, and many types of water using machines. They can tell how many cycles were used, and see how much you are charging. They know what expenses similar businesses have.

The IRS only goes to tax court of you take them there. It is very expensive. More likely, you get a large IRS bill and pay it, as it is the lesser or the two evils. Even if you win in tax court, you lose.

 

[H2ODude]

Cash gives negotiating leverage. It's amazing how I can still haggle the price down on a car or lawnmower or hobby toy by a few hundred bucks once the cash comes peeling out.

Cash is king. It's the only way I roll when buying or selling stuff. Too much forgery of cashiers checks, stolen credit cards and the like.

Either bring cash or don't bother showing up ...

Absolutely. My only big cash experience was when selling my motorcycle. Guy showed up (said he owned a pawn shop, he did in fact know what he was doing). I think I'd just run an ad in the paper. I was asking I believe $11k or something like that. We couldn't come to terms but as he was walking away he whipped out $10k cash in 100's and said he could take it right there if I'd just sign the title over. I would not have agreed to that price if there would have been a meeting at a bank or checks involved. But to just sign the title and take cash and be done with it, SOLD. IIRC the wad was $10k exact so he knew what he was going to pay, although I suppose he had some extra in his pocket.

 

[ivinsfan]

Car Wash business all cash, watch out now we have entered into "Breaking Bad" territory

 

[jfn111]

Just before I retired I sold our two Harleys using Craigslist. Both sales were over $10,000. The first bike sold the guy paid in $100 dollar bills and the second sale we both had accounts at Wells Fargo so we met at the bank and they transfered from his account to mine.
I told anyone who called Cash Only!