Need info from an electrician

[Texas Proud]

I am an electrician and not an accountant but lets say the roles were reversed. Say that electrician has you doing some accounting work and he didn't like the way you had all of the line items laid out on his statement. Although this is the way its normally/always done he wants to see it done his way but he admits he knows NOTHING about accounting. He most certainly won't want to pay you for your extra efforts to re do it his way and you know that it won't make a hill of beans amount of difference in a million years and the end result will be absolutely the same. How would you handle such a ridiculous request?


To ask if you are being too picky is a huge understatement.


Regarding the junction box. I am sure if it really bothers you and you don't mind spending the extra money they will be glad to cut up the rest of your house and fish in a new wire to eliminate the box. Then of course you will have to deal with the expense and the mess of the patching of all of the holes it took to gain the access needed to add the additional wiring. Or you could just leave that calendar over it.

Well, since you asked....

If someone wanted me to display their financial stmts in a different way than normal, I would do it.... they are for the customers benefit, not mine... BTW, I have done this before so I am not just saying it.... it was a real decision for me...

Also, changing the wires would have taken a few minutes at most... changing a financial might or might not be that easy.... if it was easy then no extra charge... if difficult I would charge...


I am OK with the junction box... I would have preferred them asking where I would like it, but where they put it is fine... like my last stmt, it was more difficult to redo the wire so I would have chosen the junction box...

 

[Texas Proud]

Not an electrician so I have to ask if it is kosher to drywall over that junction box. It just provides continuation for a short line, and not really a junction of several connections that you may need to access later.

No more blank plate.

I asked... they said no, it cannot be covered up...

Now, I am sure I could hire someone to do it, or do it myself in the future... we will see.....

 

[NW-Bound]

I relocated a low wall outlet that was going to be covered up by a new floor cabinet. No need for me to drywall over it, as it is now behind the cabinet.

Wonder if I will be jailed if somehow someone discovers it.

PS. If that connection fails, I will lose the new outlet higher on the wall. I would not be able to fix the connection, because the new cabinets are semi-permanently installed, and have a granite countertop over them. Mucho money to destroy.

 

[Music Lover]

Not an electrician so I have to ask if it is kosher to drywall over that junction box. It just provides continuation for a short line, and not really a junction of several connections that you may need to access later.

No more blank plate.

In most places it is against code to cover a junction box.

 

[Music Lover]

If that connection fails, I will lose the new outlet higher on the wall. I would not be able to fix the connection, because the new cabinets are semi-permanently installed, and have a granite countertop over them. Mucho money to destroy.

That's why it's against code to cover up a junction box. If you were going to all the work to install new cabinets, then why not just do it right and reroute the wire correctly?

 

[ERD50]

In most places it is against code to cover a junction box.

I relocated a low wall outlet that was going to be covered up by a new floor cabinet. No need for me to drywall over it, as it is now behind the cabinet.

Wonder if I will be jailed if somehow someone discovers it.

PS. If that connection fails, I will lose the new outlet higher on the wall. I would not be able to fix the connection, because the new cabinets are semi-permanently installed, and have a granite countertop over them. Mucho money to destroy.

That's why it's against code to cover up a junction box. If you were going to all the work to install new cabinets, then why not just do it right and reroute the wire correctly?

Or, if possible - just cut a hole in the back of the cabinet. At least you have some access to the outlet, even if it isn't usable.

-ERD50

 

[NW-Bound]

That's why it's against code to cover up a junction box. If you were going to all the work to install new cabinets, then why not just do it right and reroute the wire correctly?

Because I would have to tear out the wall to run a new continuous piece of wire.

I was betting that the chance of the twisted wire nuts failing would be small, and was willing to take the chance.

Oh, just thought about it. I could gain access to that old outlet box by cutting through the back of the cabinet. Still betting that I would never need to do that.

PS. Cross-posted with ERD50.

 

[NW-Bound]

Ah, had I cut a hole in the back of the cabinet, then the old outlet would still be accessible and usable.

Now, someone upon seeing it (a new homeowner after we croak) may say "Ah hah, I can plug in my toaster or rice cooker with it inside the cabinet, and have it running while the door is closed".

Is it against the code to enable someone to do some bad things like that?

 

[ERD50]

Ah, had I cut a hole in the back of the cabinet, then the old outlet would still be accessible and usable.

Now, someone upon seeing it (a new homeowner after we croak) may say "Ah hah, I can plug in my toaster or rice cooker with it inside the cabinet, and have it running while the door is closed".

Is it against the code to enable someone to do some bad things like that?

A duplex outlet is common under a sink - one socket for the (usually nearby) dishwasher, one for a garbage disposal. So if, like us, you don't have a disposal, there is an empty socket under there, just waiting for someone to plug in a toaster and shut the door!

Hey, never underestimate what someone might do!

-ERD50

 

[Hermit]

Ah, had I cut a hole in the back of the cabinet, then the old outlet would still be accessible and usable.

Now, someone upon seeing it (a new homeowner after we croak) may say "Ah hah, I can plug in my toaster or rice cooker with it inside the cabinet, and have it running while the door is closed".

Is it against the code to enable someone to do some bad things like that?

Not only is it against code to cover junction boxes, it is against code to cover any access to wires even if the wires are continuous. They make 90 degree elbows in conduit with a cap on the end to make it easier to feed the wire through the bend. They cannot be used behind dry wall. At least that is how my inspector reads the NEC.

 

[foxfirev5]

I am an electrician and not an accountant but lets say the roles were reversed. Say that electrician has you doing some accounting work and he didn't like the way you had all of the line items laid out on his statement. Although this is the way its normally/always done he wants to see it done his way but he admits he knows NOTHING about accounting. He most certainly won't want to pay you for your extra efforts to re do it his way and you know that it won't make a hill of beans amount of difference in a million years and the end result will be absolutely the same. How would you handle such a ridiculous request?


To ask if you are being too picky is a huge understatement.


Regarding the junction box. I am sure if it really bothers you and you don't mind spending the extra money they will be glad to cut up the rest of your house and fish in a new wire to eliminate the box. Then of course you will have to deal with the expense and the mess of the patching of all of the holes it took to gain the access needed to add the additional wiring. Or you could just leave that calendar over it.

CUSTOMER SERVICE 101 - Sorry but you would never get any of my work. It's not a big deal and you are probably right but what is most important?

 

[NW-Bound]

Not only is it against code to cover junction boxes, it is against code to cover any access to wires even if the wires are continuous. They make 90 degree elbows in conduit with a cap on the end to make it easier to feed the wire through the bend. They cannot be used behind dry wall. At least that is how my inspector reads the NEC.

Hmmm...

Now, the wires inside the wall are usually threaded through studs without being inside any conduit. So, their entire lengths are accessible. That should mean they cannot be drywalled over.

 

[ERD50]

Hmmm...

Now, the wires inside the wall are usually threaded through studs without being inside any conduit. So, their entire lengths are accessible. That should mean they cannot be drywalled over.

I'm only familiar with conduit. And I think they expect that you could pull new wires through in the future, if there was any damage, or even maybe add a new circuit. So if a removable cap at the elbow was seen as being needed to pull the wire through that bend initially, you could no longer count on being able to do that w/o access.

I dunno how it works without conduit. Is the wire loose enough to be used to fish in anew piece as you pull it out? As long as you can do that w/o pulling the drywall, you should be OK.

But if they don't design it for that, it makes no difference - you are going to be ripping into walls anyhow!

-ERD50

 

[Ronstar]

I dunno how it works without conduit. Is the wire loose enough to be used to fish in anew piece as you pull it out?



-ERD50

Not normally. When using Romex, the cable is stapled to studs etc

 

[NW-Bound]

I believe Hermit was talking about this kind of EMT elbow.

I always use this when making external circuit run because it turns tighter corner than the following elbow.

With either one, you are not going to replace any wire or pull new ones through the conduit after the circuit is installed. It is hard enough with all the pieces loose on the ground.

And usually, you do not use EMT inside drywall, but if one wants to, why not?

 

[Senator]

It is up high (because that is where the wire ended) and is into our bedroom behind our door... DW has a calendar over it... they said it would look bad in the bathroom as it would be seen easily in the mirror....

DW is fine with this.... did not think about adding a plug... thanks...

If you have an attic above that room, the junction box could have been in the attic, not the room.

I have worked with many handymen that cover them up routinely. It is not code, and if a wire nut ever comes loose it is near impossible to diagnose the issue.

A plug works the best, and even if it is a poor location, maybe better than a blank plate.

 

[ERD50]

...
And usually, you do not use EMT inside drywall, but if one wants to, why not? ...

It is code here. Every house I've seen in this area is all conduit. Except for the old, old places with knob and tube. But any rehab means replacing it all. I think you can get away with short runs of armored cable (BX).

I know conduit is not common elsewhere, but it is what I grew up with, and it's weird for me to see these TV handy-man shows with wires just running through the wall.

Advantage is, you can pull new wires through the conduit, no ripping out walls. We had a small fire in our old house that damaged some wiring. They just pulled new. No mess at all.

With either one, you are not going to replace any wire or pull new ones through the conduit after the circuit is installed. It is hard enough with all the pieces loose on the ground.

I've done it. Pro's do it (but I don't think educated fleas do it. <sing-song>). It can be a challenge sometimes. They make a wax for it, it really helps.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Klein-To...e-and-Cable-Pulling-Lubricant-51012/202266595

-ERD50

 

[ERD50]

More Chicago area vs the rest-of-the-world electrical trivia:

https://www.reddit.com/r/chicago/comments/5k3e2c/hey_chicago_what_is_it_with_these_sideways/

Vertical outlets? I never noticed any difference when traveling. Horizontal seemed the norm to me, everywhere (with exceptions for a narrow wall or something). Not so?

-ERD50

 

[Texas Proud]

If you have an attic above that room, the junction box could have been in the attic, not the room.

I have worked with many handymen that cover them up routinely. It is not code, and if a wire nut ever comes loose it is near impossible to diagnose the issue.

A plug works the best, and even if it is a poor location, maybe better than a blank plate.

Nope, bedroom above... I will run the plug suggestion by the DW, but I bet it is a no since that would look stranger IMO.... we are talking a bit above eye level....

 

[ERD50]

Nope, bedroom above... I will run the plug suggestion by the DW, but I bet it is a no since that would look stranger IMO.... we are talking a bit above eye level....

Right where you would want to plug in a CO detector? Hmmm....

-ERD50

 

[meierlde]

I asked... they said no, it cannot be covered up...

Now, I am sure I could hire someone to do it, or do it myself in the future... we will see.....

It you ever watch Holmes on Homes you find he is on the warpath against hidden junction boxes it apparently is a severe violation of code, and a fire hazard to boot. (In particular consider the next person remodeling the house who does not know about the junction box)

 

[Senator]

Nope, bedroom above... I will run the plug suggestion by the DW, but I bet it is a no since that would look stranger IMO.... we are talking a bit above eye level....

Or put a bunch of false blank plates on the wall and make a design...

 

[Texas Proud]

I am an electrician and not an accountant but lets say the roles were reversed. Say that electrician has you doing some accounting work and he didn't like the way you had all of the line items laid out on his statement. Although this is the way its normally/always done he wants to see it done his way but he admits he knows NOTHING about accounting. He most certainly won't want to pay you for your extra efforts to re do it his way and you know that it won't make a hill of beans amount of difference in a million years and the end result will be absolutely the same. How would you handle such a ridiculous request?


To ask if you are being too picky is a huge understatement.


Regarding the junction box. I am sure if it really bothers you and you don't mind spending the extra money they will be glad to cut up the rest of your house and fish in a new wire to eliminate the box. Then of course you will have to deal with the expense and the mess of the patching of all of the holes it took to gain the access needed to add the additional wiring. Or you could just leave that calendar over it.

I have been looking online and so far every diagram or drawing that I can find shows that the wire coming into the box is coming in above the switch.... so saying that crossing the wires inside the box is what an electrician would normally do.... I just do not buy it... It sounds like an easy out to fix the problem they created in the first place...


BTW, my BIL was a contractor and I worked with him for awhile.... I saw many times where what he did want not 'correct' but 'good enough'.... I remember once when he was putting in some plumbing and did not have a long enough pipe... so he spliced a few together and that was that... sure, it worked, but was it the correct way to do it Not in my opinion....

 

[euro]

I have been looking online and so far every diagram or drawing that I can find shows that the wire coming into the box is coming in above the switch.... so saying that crossing the wires inside the box is what an electrician would normally do.... I just do not buy it... It sounds like an easy out to fix the problem they created in the first place...


BTW, my BIL was a contractor and I worked with him for awhile.... I saw many times where what he did want not 'correct' but 'good enough'.... I remember once when he was putting in some plumbing and did not have a long enough pipe... so he spliced a few together and that was that... sure, it worked, but was it the correct way to do it Not in my opinion....

If I were you, I'd let it go - you'll sleep better at night.

 

[Texas Proud]

If I were you, I'd let it go - you'll sleep better at night.

I let it go... just responding to a post...