Need to learn to keep my mouth shut?

[rescueme]

Which is now easily done for most houses by a few mouseclicks and key strokes...

Sometimes, sometimes not.

We purchased our property (raw land) before we built our retirement home, 17 years ago. The current county RE records only show our original land purchase price, not the total build price of the home, together with the land. That would only work in previous built homes.

Of course, you can use Zillo but that only shows a current "guesstimate" based upon local market conditions - not necessarily what you actually paid.

BTW, snow in NJ is different than snow in Denver, where the air is drier. You can get soaked in the east with the snow moisture content; not so much in the west.

 

[52andout]

On my street many of us have lived here since the houses were built about 25 years ago. Several neighbors, empty nesters in late 50's and early 60's , are moving. One into a condo to cut costs and one into a much larger, new house. This weekend the big discussion in the yards was mortgages. I came inside very thankful for my not perfect but paid for house, which I didn't mention.

School loans are a big taboo to talk about too. My nieces will graduate with useless degrees and big school loans from private schools with no job prospects. They could not possibly go to state schools. Too good for that.

I keep my mouth shut and spend my days working in my garden, riding my bike, reading my books and pursuing my hobbies while they all rush out each morning to work not realizing there is a choice.

 

[Danmar]

My SIL/BIL live in NJ as he works in NYC in financial services. They live in an affluent neighbourhood. I am always amazed by how much they know about their neighbours' financial affairs. It is apparently quite acceptable to disclose incomes and mortgages to relative stangers. This is generally not the case in Canada and people view such discussion as impolite or worse. I suspect i might be a NYC thing?
I try to keep as quiet as possible about financials but sometimes our lifestyle will give it away. THat's part of the reason I participate on these forums. You get to disclose things and get feed back in an anonymous way.

 

[brewer12345]

My SIL/BIL live in NJ as he works in NYC in financial services. They live in an affluent neighbourhood. I am always amazed by how much they know about their neighbours' financial affairs. It is apparently quite acceptable to disclose incomes and mortgages to relative stangers. This is generally not the case in Canada and people view such discussion as impolite or worse. I suspect i might be a NYC thing?
I try to keep as quiet as possible about financials but sometimes our lifestyle will give it away. THat's part of the reason I participate on these forums. You get to disclose things and get feed back in an anonymous way.

Maybe things are different in wealthier 'hoods. In my mixed middle class cul-de-sac we have everything from cops to (extremely wealthy) investment bankers to retirees to construction workers and lots in between. I would not say I disclose stuff to perfect strangers, but I routinely chat about investment opportunities with coworkers and friends and I have been asked to look at a few friends finances/portfolios. So I suspect there is some cultural difference, but its not like we walk around with out personal balance sheets tattooed on our foreheads.

 

[rescueme]

...its not like we walk around with out personal balance sheets tattooed on our foreheads.

So, what kind of "tats" do you have on your foreheads? ...

 

[Webzter]

So, what kind of "tats" do you have on your foreheads? ...

false eyes, scares away the predators.

 

[kumquat]

Key word is should. I'm a grasshopper in a world full of ants, some of whom are friends. I'm not worried about offending them. But I do take care how I talk about money because I don't want them to think I think I'm better than them. So I don't give advice, criticize, or comment on their financial situation and keep mine to myself unless someone asks for investment advice.

If you are here, it's more likely you are the ant than the grasshopper.

 

[Tadpole]

I think my husband's family would have been surprised that we have been paying cash for everything since we moved close to them after retiring. But they are not. I explained to them that I always save the money for purchases I know will occur. (This is true.) I told them that we squeeze our lifestyle if necessary to do this. (Also true.)

So they don't view us as "rich" but view us as people who saved for that new car, rewiring, extra insulation, new furniture, etc. They know nothing about the rest of our finances. It was obvious to them that prepaying in a piggy bank for these things was no different than borrowing for these things and saved the aggravation and interest on the purchases.

 

[Leonidas]

My ex-employer changed insurance carriers recently and I had to go downtown to get some things straightened out down at the admin tower. Talking with a staffer in the benefits office I was getting weird vibes from her about my choice of plans. She tried to steer me away from the high-deductible plan and into the low-deductible plan with double the premium cost. Her repeated comment about my choice was, "that's for people who don't get sick."

When I told her that I had used their online tools and my own math to determine that I would actually save money using the high-deductible plan she seemed stunned. Then she asked if I could afford to pay for care before the deductible kicked in. Not thinking, I made the offhand remark, "Oh yeah, no problem."

It was only after I left her office that I understood that, "this plan is for people who don't get sick", was the way they were pushing people away from a plan that required some financial discipline and planning. For too many people, including her, it made more sense to pay thousands more each year in premiums via payroll deductions because they couldn't handle budgeting to have the money on hand to pay for out of pocket costs.

 

[Nords]

It was only after I left her office that I understood that, "this plan is for people who don't get sick", was the way they were pushing people away from a plan that required some financial discipline and planning. For too many people, including her, it made more sense to pay thousands more each year in premiums via payroll deductions because they couldn't handle budgeting to have the money on hand to pay for out of pocket costs.

Everybody wants to save on their premiums, but then nobody saves the premium.

 

[Jay_Gatsby]

Key word is should. I'm a grasshopper in a world full of ants, some of whom are friends. I'm not worried about offending them. But I do take care how I talk about money because I don't want them to think I think I'm better than them. So I don't give advice, criticize, or comment on their financial situation and keep mine to myself unless someone asks for investment advice.

Like you, I don't initiate money discussions, but I do believe that I'm "better" than people who squander their money. Yes, I know that one man's squander is another man's necessity, choice, etc.... However, the bottom line is that when you spend your money on one thing, you no longer have it to spend on something else. "Better" people save their money (i.e., pay themselves first) before spending what's left. "Lesser" people do the opposite.

 

[Bimmerbill]

Had something similar in court a few months back. Other lawyer kept asking what money I was using to pay for the car and what the payments were. She couldn't understand I had no car payments. It was going round and round so I funally had to stand up and and say "I don't owe any money other than my mortgage." Glad the judge didn't yell at me.

 

[Independent]

I'd distinguish between different types of "money" discussions.

Investments. Now that lots of people have 401Ks, it's acceptable to talk about stocks vs. bonds, etc. Lots of people make these decisions and I can discuss them without putting dollar signs on my balance. It might be that Brewer's neighbors know he's an investment professional, so many of his money discussions were in this category.

Loan rates. Does the local CU have better rates than the banks? Is a fixed rate mortgage better than a variable rate? This is a little more sensitive. I can talk about these things theoretically without hitting people with the fact the I don't borrow. If I get the "you must be filthy rich" look when I say I haven't been following loan rates carefully, I'll mention that I borrowed money for my first new car ($1,850 for a 1970 Ford Maverick, the cheapest car on the market at the time) then we drove it as our only car for 8 years until we could afford to buy a new Chevy for cash. i.e. I have no trouble talking about an LBYM lifestyle, but I try not to bring it up unless it's relevant.

Anybody's annual income. This is the one that bothers lots of people. It's funny because when I worked hourly jobs, people were pretty open about hourly wages to the penny. But many salaried workers have a big "performance" component in their income, so it's not just about money, it's also about somebody's evaluation of you as an individual. That's touchy.

Of course, saying I've got savings and I don't borrow makes some people assume I must have a very high income. That's when I bring out the relevant LBYM stories.

(Here's a local story. I'm living in Iowa. The farmers all know who owns which land, and therefore who has millions of dollars in land wealth. They don't know how much of that is supported by borrowing. Regardless of net worth, they drive muddy pickups and wear jeans and flannel shirts.)

 

[Brat]

This thread reminds me of a couple observations made by people I respect:

I was a member of a Camp Fire Girls as a kid. Our meetings rotated among the members. One meeting was held at a mansion and I came home to report all the splender I observed. Mom said, "They don't have that money by giving it away."

The other was from a business owner in Manhattan. I worked for US DOL at the time and because pay is such a sensitive issue in many offices I discussed my need for a private place to examine payroll. He said, "Don't worry about that. I pay for performance and really want staff to know what others earn. In a perfect word I would post the pay of everyone, including mine, with a notice that if they thought they should earn more to come see me." He was great to work with.

 

[Danmar]

Like you, I don't initiate money discussions, but I do believe that I'm "better" than people who squander their money. Yes, I know that one man's squander is another man's necessity, choice, etc.... However, the bottom line is that when you spend your money on one thing, you no longer have it to spend on something else. "Better" people save their money (i.e., pay themselves first) before spending what's left. "Lesser" people do the opposite.

Slippery slope there Jay. Am I better because I saved more than you? I don't think you meant that?

 

[Nords]

Had something similar in court a few months back. Other lawyer kept asking what money I was using to pay for the car and what the payments were. She couldn't understand I had no car payments. It was going round and round so I funally had to stand up and and say "I don't owe any money other than my mortgage." Glad the judge didn't yell at me.

Maybe the lawyer was trying to provoke instability and hostility... the judge probably thought the lawyer deserved the response.

 

[samclem]

Like you, I don't initiate money discussions, but I do believe that I'm "better" than people who squander their money.

I'd say that the person who decides to save for likely obligations has made a better choice than someone who spends irresponsibly, but I'd stop short of saying he's "better." I know lots of people who make dumb decisions, but they are good folks.

 

[freebird5825]

Religion...
Politics...
Sex...
In-laws...

Money is an easy topic compared to the above.

I have long been treated as a "have" by the "have-nots". Oh well.

Mum's the word - keep it under yer arm.

 

[ItDontMeanAThing]

If you are here, it's more likely you are the ant than the grasshopper.

D'oh! You're right, I got it backwards.

 

[ItDontMeanAThing]

Which is now easily done for most houses by a few mouseclicks and key strokes...

Totally off topic ... got curious about the house my dad sold it in '86 before the Southern California real estate bubble burst. Zillow shows it sold last year for a little over double the '86 price. I'm glad I treated Cali real estate as a spectator sport when I lived there.

 

[JoshTrent]

I can't speak for Denver.. but here in the Springs things are very laid back. Dave Ramsey comes through every 12-16 months to set everyone straight.

I chat with my Co-Workers about investments & retirement.. It was interesting that one-day, not so long ago, one let loose with the fact that having a "$250k 401(k) and $100k in cash/savings" really meant that he has a huge loan on his 401(k), he owes $50k on two cars, $100k+ in CC Debt, $10k on a Boat, $60k on a Kitchen remodel (on a $175k house). Another Co-Worker and I just kinda looked at each other.. but it clicked. The poor sap is out every night eating & throwing money out the window - he won't give up his lifestyle, but that lifestyle is going to drain him.

I have nothing against him or his lifestyle.. he can live however he likes. BUT I (and the other guy) do feel sorry for him, and it has had an affect our relationship.

 

[samclem]

Totally off topic ... got curious about the house my dad sold it in '86 before the Southern California real estate bubble burst. Zillow shows it sold last year for a little over double the '86 price. I'm glad I treated Cali real estate as a spectator sport when I lived there.

$1 in 1986 would be worth $2.04 in 2011, so the price of that house just about kept up inflation. US stocks did much better, even with some "unfortunate periods" during that timeframe.

I just "zillowed" the house in which I grew up in SoCal. My parents paid about $25K for it in 1965. It's now worth (according to zillow) $416K. That sounds like tremendous appreciation, but it's just 6.3% annually.

 

[Jay_Gatsby]

Slippery slope there Jay. Am I better because I saved more than you? I don't think you meant that?

To give a lawyer's answer - it depends. I could get into hard numbers, but to your point, it's a slippery slope as to where one draws the line. That said, Samclem got it right but I'd disagree with him that saving for one's likely obligations isn't a sign of being "better" than someone who doesn't (I equate making "better choices" with being "better"). The latter individual, perhaps having many other redeeming qualities, is being irresponsible in a major life area. It's no different than someone who earns a great deal of money, but neglects his or her family in the process. Balance is the key.

 

[kcowan]

Some of my multi-millionaire friends hate to pay more than their share of a meal out, and hate to overpay for wine or drinks. To hear them talk, you would think they were poor. Life has to bring a balance of enjoyment through both saving and spending.

Joy is about being happy with what you have!

 

[Jay_Gatsby]

Some of my multi-millionaire friends hate to pay more than their share of a meal out, and hate to overpay for wine or drinks. To hear them talk, you would think they were poor. Life has to bring a balance of enjoyment through both saving and spending.

Joy is about being happy with what you have!

I don't think any of us likes to pay more than our fair share of a meal out, or overpay for wine/drinks - just because we can afford it. Perhaps this is why your multi-millionaire friends have as much as they do. Generosity is and should be a voluntary act.

Don't get me wrong, being a miser is no way to go through life, but expecting that wealthier people should pay more just because they can isn't any better. Not to turn this into a political thread, but I've never liked the idea of just increasing taxes on high-earners as a way to close budget shortfalls. It is especially disconcerting when 50%+ of the population pays no taxes at all. This is simply wealth redistribution.