NW Mutual

W

wildsun

Recycles dryer sheets
Joined
Apr 6, 2015
Messages
60
Location
Portland
I'm curious if anyone in the forum has had experience using the CFPs at NW Mutual as advisors. NW Mutual is mutual insurance company, but from what I've been able to figure out so far, their financial planning service looks pretty strong, so I'm considering using their service.
 
I would not get financial advice from, well, almost anyone, and NWML would be towards the bottom of that list. They will be biased towards higher fee and more conservative targets than I need, and they'd charge for their services to boot. No thank you.

I say that as the son of someone who owns half a dozen NWML policies of varying kinds.
 
SecondCor521 said:
I would not get financial advice from, well, almost anyone, and NWML would be towards the bottom of that list. They will be biased towards higher fee and more conservative targets than I need, and they'd charge for their services to boot. No thank you.

I say that as the son of someone who owns half a dozen NWML policies of varying kinds.
Click to expand...

I am a confirmed DIY guy myself, on just about any task in my life. And I'm learning about investing every chance I get. But I don't have the time yet, and even though I'm a numbers guy, I'm not sure I have the attention required, to do it myself.

What do you do if you wouldn't use a "financial advice firm"?

A lot people on this forum seem to park money at Vanguard, Fidelity or Schwab -- and it sounds like they do well with this approach. Are they relying on the fund managers making the right decisions? Of course they are, but do they do well with this approach?
 
wildsun said:
A lot people on this forum seem to park money at Vanguard, Fidelity or Schwab -- and it sounds like they do well with this approach. Are they relying on the fund managers making the right decisions? Of course they are, but do they do well with this approach?
Click to expand...
I don't rely much on fund managers. Our portfolio is mostly in index funds though we do own a few actively managed funds too.


There is absolutely nothing a paid advisor can do for you that you can't do yourself far cheaper. A very typical management fee is 1% of assets under management. That means $10,000 EVERY YEAR to "manage" a $1 million portfolio for you. That's insane.


Put your money in a total stock market fund and a total bond market fund in whatever percentages you like and you'll beat that pro year after year after year.
 
NW Mutual likely has high fees either for AUM and/or fund expenses. You can do much better with low cost ETFs from Fido, Schwab or Vanguard.
 
Yeah, I've regretted most of the paid (one way or another) advice I've received. I won't pay for more advice (again, paying one way or another.) YMMV
 
wildsun said:
I am a confirmed DIY guy myself, on just about any task in my life. And I'm learning about investing every chance I get. But I don't have the time yet, and even though I'm a numbers guy, I'm not sure I have the attention required, to do it myself.
Click to expand...

I think it will cost you a lot to delegate. A lot.

I would (and did) make the effort to learn.

Nobody cares as much about your finances as you will, especially when keeping you incapable results in you paying them money.

wildsun said:
What do you do if you wouldn't use a "financial advice firm"?
Click to expand...

I DIY. I invest entirely in low cost broad based index funds. I don't actively trade at all. Other than very occasional and very minor rebalancing, I buy and hold forever.

I think financial advice - generally of the frenetic active variety - actively destroys investment returns.

wildsun said:
A lot people on this forum seem to park money at Vanguard, Fidelity or Schwab -- and it sounds like they do well with this approach. Are they relying on the fund managers making the right decisions? Of course they are, but do they do well with this approach?
Click to expand...

My family has money at all three of those firms.

As noted above, I don't rely on fund managers because I do not invest in active mutual funds.

Buying and holding broad based low cost index funds forever and ignoring all the tactical maneuvering results in very few decisions having to be made.

My portfolio expense ratio is 0.04%. My 10 year rate of return is 11.8%. I retired at age 46. My net withdrawal rate is now 1.39%. I consider myself to have done well.

And I'm by far not the only one. I'm just giving you a typical example. I'm sure if others wanted to they could tell similar histories.
 
Bottom line - if you decide that you want to pay for investment advice, you don't go to an insurance company, that probably the worst option.
 
OP - what exactly are you wanting/needing from a CFP? How to invest? Can you retire? Other?
 
RetiredAt49 said:
OP - what exactly are you wanting/needing from a CFP? How to invest? Can you retire? Other?
Click to expand...

I'm already semi-retired. I show down my consulting business last year, but I am still actively maintaining an managing short term rentals on the Oregon Coast that I own. I know I have enough to retire. I haven't done active investing, but I know how to buy into a fund.

I'm looking for a financial plan for the rest of my life. The plan will evolve as things change of course. I've done all the math myself to address the question of do I have enough and that all looks great, but that's not the only thing I need.

I think I need help with keeping the portfolio balanced, but probably could figure that out for myself.

I need help with minimizing taxes. I might need help with tax compliance issues at some point, like for example when I sell rental real estate.

I guess I think I've got most of the pieces of what I need, but I so far don't feel I have a Consistent and Clear way of putting all of the info together.

And the approach of buying low cost index funds makes some sense to me, but I haven't figured out how the returns from that approach would compare to the returns from a more active and/or more guided approach.
 
wildsun said:
I'm already semi-retired. I show down my consulting business last year, but I am still actively maintaining an managing short term rentals on the Oregon Coast that I own. I know I have enough to retire. I haven't done active investing, but I know how to buy into a fund.

I'm looking for a financial plan for the rest of my life. The plan will evolve as things change of course. I've done all the math myself to address the question of do I have enough and that all looks great, but that's not the only thing I need.

I think I need help with keeping the portfolio balanced, but probably could figure that out for myself.

I need help with minimizing taxes. I might need help with tax compliance issues at some point, like for example when I sell rental real estate.

I guess I think I've got most of the pieces of what I need, but I so far don't feel I have a Consistent and Clear way of putting all of the info together.
Click to expand...
You don't need an insurance salesman, you need a fee-for-service financial planner. These organizations have been favorably mentioned here, though I have not personally used them: garrettplanningnetwork.com, www.xyplanningnetwork.com, and napfa.org You should interview a few FAs who will charge hourly or by the task to help you and educate you.


wildsun said:
And the approach of buying low cost index funds makes some sense to me, but I haven't figured out how the returns from that approach would compare to the returns from a more active and/or more guided approach.
Click to expand...
Either of these books will tell you what you want to know; reading both is better:https://www.amazon.com/Random-Walk-Down-Wall-Street/dp/1324051132 and https://www.amazon.com/Four-Pillars-Investing-Second-Portfolio/dp/1264715919. Bernstein tends to be a little more mathematical but is not at all opaque. There are recently revised editions of both books; be sure to get the latest.

Spoiler: Over the past 60 years of studies, the average stock picker has been shown to consistently underperformed his benchmark and the rare outperformances can mostly be attributed to luck and not to skill.
 
OK, so you want some help with financial planning, and as others have suggested you probably want a fee-based financial planner. You may want a one-time consult or an on-going relationship. A fee-based planner will not recommend a specific set of investments but a broad-based approach to managing money, what to consider in your estate plan, and what your investment philosophy and policy will be going forward. Commission-based planners do this as well but can be influenced by the contracts they hold with brokers, insurers, etc. The fee can be several hundred dollars but you get a comprehensive look and recommendations.

If you want someone to manage your assets then you'll want a financial fiduciary - a stock broker. You can find that at many brokerages, but there are costs to manage the money - as someone said above about 1% of your total investment which can be substantial - and this is in addition to the costs of an index or mutual fund expenses that are built into the share price, or other fees for buying/selling commissioned products.


This Investopedia article is well-balanced and talks about the pros and cons of a fee-based planner:
https://www.investopedia.com/articl...nly-financial-advisers-what-you-need-know.asp

Most here have spent years reading and learning about managing their own investments. You have two good recommendations about how the stock market works. You may find this helpful as well:
Rick Ferri, All About Asset Allocation - how to balance a mix of stocks and bonds. A Financial Planner will talk to you about this and your goals for managing your retirement funds. So it should help prepare you for any meeting.

Stocks - Bonds - Treasuries - Mutual Funds - Index Funds - Expense Ratios - Commission Expenses It all can be a little overwhelming. You earned the money, some self-education can help you spend it wisely and enjoy your retirement.

HTH,
Rita
 
Good stuff @Gotadimple, but one small correction:

Gotadimple said:
... If you want someone to manage your assets then you'll want a financial fiduciary - a stock broker. You can find that at many brokerages ...
Click to expand...
"Stock Broker" is not synonymous with "fiduciary." In fact, most of the people referred to as stock brokers are officially "Registered Representatives," having passed a test called a Series 7. A fiduciary relationship is a legal relationship that requires the fiduciary to always act in the best interests of the client. In the investment world, these are usually Registered Investment Advisor firms, and their reps are Investment Advisor Representatives. The details of this can be quite subtle, but the IARs will usually have passed a Series 65 or Series 66 exam. There are also exams for selling insurance, but I am not up on them. For any investment rep of any flavor, OP, you should go to https://brokercheck.finra.org/ and check their record. If their record looks acceptable to you, ask for a document confirming that they have a fiduciary responsibility to you.
 
You've gotten plenty of good advice but I'll jump in. I worked in the insurance business for 38 years- on the property-casualty side but for a few companies that did have a life insurance and investment side. I buy insurance from insurance companies. I buy investment products from investment product companies. As others have noted, life companies tend to offer products with heavy expense loads. They're also often fond of annuities. Even if they do offer ETFs, why do you need to pay a % of assets under management to trade ETFs?

Educate yourself and then go with Vanguard, Schwab or Fidelity.
 
COcheesehead said:
It’s an insurance company. Think about that.
Click to expand...
Yes, but it is a mutual insurance company owned by and for the benefit of its policyholders. While I've been retired for 12 years, when I was in industry and in consulting it was widely viewed as the best and most well run life insurer in the US...top of the heap... with the highest possible financial strength ratings from A.M.Best, S&P, Moody's and Fitch.

I served on some life insurance industry committees with NML finance executives and they were all top notch.

The only other company with the highest possible financial strength ratings from A.M.Best, S&P, Moody's and Fitch is New York Life (also a mutual life insurer).

To be clear, I'm not endorsing NML for ETFs but IME, their corporate culture is responsible stewards operating in the best interests of their policyholders and I would not think that has changed.
 
Last edited:
pb4uski said:
Yes, but it is a mutual insurance company owned by and for the benefit of its policyholders. While I've been retired for 12 years, when I was in industry and in consulting it was widely viewed as the best and most well run life insurer in the US...top of the heap... with the highest possible financial strength ratings from A.M.Best, S&P, Moody's and Fitch.

I served on some life insurance industry committees with NML finance executives and they were all top notch.

The only other company with the highest possible financial strength ratings from A.M.Best, S&P, Moody's and Fitch is New York Life (also a mutual life insurer).

To be clear, I'm not endorsing NML for ETFs but IME, their corporate culture is responsible stewards operating in the best interests of their policyholders and I would not think that has changed.
Click to expand...
WADR, I'm sure that is all true, and very relevant to someone shopping for an insurance company, but the OP is looking for financial planning advice. We have a friend who works for Thrivent and her comment regarding their investment side is that "all the company cares about is selling insurance." This is logical and natural and I'm sure it’s the same for any insurance company that has responded to market changes by adding investments to its marketing presentations. I think that's @COcheesehead's point; NML is an insurance company not an investment company or a comprehensive financial planning company.

My personal bias is that beyond simple term insurance, other insurance products are rarely needed by the average family and most are unnecessarily costly, even rapacious. YMMV.
 
pb4uski said:
^^^ Read last paragraph of my post.
Click to expand...


There’s nothing wrong with people like OldShooter or yourself pb4uski in expressing your own thoughts/opinions. If people who read other opinions and get a little butt hurt… then we don’t benefit from diversified viewpoints.

OldShooter helped us dump our AUM FA last year when I needed a little encouragement while others expressed their views on keeping an FA.

Hope we can all keep an open mind and express freely and opening on all topics.
 
@RetiredAt49, thanks for the flowers, but I didn't take @pb4's comment negatively. Actually we agree on far more things than we disagree on. I did read his last paragraph, but took it in the spirit o the post, praising NML. Nothing wrong with any of that, I respect his opinions.My intended point was that an insurance company, even the best one in the known universe, is not what the OP needs.
 
wildsun said:
I'm curious if anyone in the forum has had experience using the CFPs at NW Mutual as advisors. NW Mutual is mutual insurance company, but from what I've been able to figure out so far, their financial planning service looks pretty strong, so I'm considering using their service.
Click to expand...


I guess if it were me, I'd ask a lot of questions before signing on. Do they push life insurance? Do the FAs sell anything (like, maybe insurance?) How are they paid? What products/investments are available? Do they have any satisfied customers who could recommend them?



Same as any other FA that you might quiz.



I think I'd start with a good dose of skepticism, but, again, I'd treat them as any other FA and see how they respond. Good luck and YMMV.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

U
What are your thoughts on Income Funds?
Replies
11
Views
2K
imbatman
imbatman
anethum
1041 trust return questions
Replies
6
Views
469
Montecfo
M
S
Fidelity Instead...
2 3
Replies
60
Views
5K
youbet
youbet
easysurfer
Going From Mutual Fund Only to Brokerage a Bit of a Nuisance For Me
Replies
12
Views
792
COcheesehead
C
S
DH signed up for Medicare Plan G today!
2
Replies
41
Views
4K
Deej
D

Latest posts

Back
Top Bottom