Overtourism

[deserat]

We've had this dream to go hike between the towns of the Cinque Terre when the weather is nice, after ER and while we are still young enough to enjoy it. Sadly, I am not sure there is an intersection point that doesn't include overcrowding.

Do it - it is worth it - go during the week and avoid the weekend. We hiked it in a day - it wasn't too long of a hike. Pick one of the smaller cities to stay and then just hike or train to the bigger ones if you want another restaurant or experience. Rick Steves has some great advice as well - watch his show or read the book.

The only overcrowding I saw was at the beginning and end and it was mostly Italians. In fact, I'll never forget the young lady in stacked sandals on the hike going slowly and talking a mile a minute. I was shocked at her attire as it wasn't the best for the hike (especially the shoes). It reminded me of the people trying to climb Half-dome in flip-flops

 

[deserat]

We just changed our 4 days in Venezia in September to 4 days in Treviso.
We have been to Venezia before.
This trip will be Bologna (day trip to Modena), Treviso, Piran, Ljubljana, Wien.

Barcelona is crowded. 10,000 people per day visit the Sagrada Familia.
But, Zaragoza (we did 3 days) is not and is delightful.
Sitges (south of Barcelona) is a cozy beach town and not crowded as long as you avoid July-August.
Irunea is very quiet if you avoid the nine-day festival of Sanfermines.

Yes, there are many anti-AirBnB signs in Coimbra, but students are very political. There are many empty building in the old part of the city that could be rehabbed.
Aveiro was very peaceful and worth the 3 days.
Porto is overrun with tourists. Lisboa is much less so.

Slovenia is phenomenal - a beautiful country all around and great food at the right price. I love that country.

 

[deserat]

It is a time-of-year thing! Try April or October. The summer seems to be cluttered up with teachers and retirees who think that the weather might be bad.

You are correct - picking your time to travel makes a huge difference. The shoulder seasons of spring and fall bring less travelers and cheaper prices. I've loved my May and October cruises as well as trips. I tend to avoid going anywhere in the summer (except southern latitudes to ski) as that is prime season for tourists.

 

[NW-Bound]

Is this for real? That is, these "reality" flipsides aren't photoshopped? I've never been to any of these places, so I don't know the reality...

These reality photos are real, but are taken at the worst crowded time, and at an angle to show a lot of people in the frame.

Heck, if there's a line of climbers waiting to summit the Himalaya for a selfie after paying $70K, then what's a crowd at the Eiffel Tower, or at San Marco Square in Venice that anybody with a few bucks can travel to?

 

[cathy63]

The WaPo had a story today with a link to a new site that predicts how crowded popular European cities will be on a given day. They base their calculations on things like public and school holidays, cruise ship calendars, local events, etc. I poked around a little and it looks interesting. https://avoid-crowds.com/

 

[NW-Bound]

^^^ Very interesting.

I entered in the dates of my recent visit to some European cities to check. In Lisbon at the end of April and on May Day, traffic was supposed to be only 50% of the max, and it was already too crowded for me. Can't imagine it with 2x more visitors, such as right now.

ARGHHH!

 

[ImaCheesehead]

A remarkable thread. It reminded me that I'm overdue for a visit to the Upper Peninsula of Michigan. Still generally peaceful and uncrowded. Great fishing, too.



Also, like NW-Bound, I always enjoy Nova Scotia and Newfoundland. If you get off the beaten track a bit, you can have things to yourself.

Just arrived in Sault Ste Marie two days ago! We are the only RV on a little peninsula at the Elks Lodge, just feet from the water, and can watch the 1000 footers as they come and go at the locks.

 

[NW-Bound]

The above post reminded me of the time in one RV trek, when we were on the bank of the Columbia River, perhaps 40 miles upstream from the river mouth. I caught the following shot of a ship steaming up the river at a reasonable speed, of 10 knots perhaps.

What caught my attention was that the ship nose pushed ahead a bow wave that was a lot higher than I would have thought. I just looked up this CSL Tecumseh to be 750' long and of the Panamax class.

 

[SpinDoctorTX]

Wish we’d spent more time there 20 years ago before big cruise ships were allowed in the canals.

Me too. It was way less crowded everywhere while we were in Italy during 2006.

 

[ckelly78z]

Just arrived in Sault Ste Marie two days ago! We are the only RV on a little peninsula at the Elks Lodge, just feet from the water, View attachment 31881View attachment 31882and can watch the 1000 footers as they come and go at the locks.

We are heading back up to Michigan's Algonac State Park East of Detroit again this year to watch the freighters, and other river traffic from our campsite. We also very much liked the Suite Ste Marie area, and particularly appreciated the ship wreck museum on White Fish Point, and Tahquamenon falls about an hour West of there.

 

[Rianne]

We are heading back up to Michigan's Algonac State Park East of Detroit again this year to watch the freighters, and other river traffic from our campsite. We also very much liked the Suite Ste Marie area, and particularly appreciated the ship wreck museum on White Fish Point, and Tahquamenon falls about an hour West of there.

Love Michigan. Lived there for 9 years and traveled north often. Crowds were rare. Sleeping Bear Dunes, Mackinaw Island, upper peninsula, so many sleepy towns on Lake Michigan. Maybe the long drive keeps people at bay. Parts of upper Michigan are in the top 10 most beautiful places in the country.

 

[FreeBear]

Love Michigan. Lived there for 9 years and traveled north often. Crowds were rare. Sleeping Bear Dunes, Mackinaw Island, upper peninsula, so many sleepy towns on Lake Michigan. Maybe the long drive keeps people at bay. Parts of upper Michigan are in the top 10 most beautiful places in the country.

Try Sleeping Bear Dunes from a kayak. There is a local guide that takes smaller groups the in stable kayaks. Recommend July or early August, otherwise often too cold and the wavy to make the trip unless very experienced. Also check out Traverse City nearby. Great food, and waterfront dining, vineyards with wine tasting. Obviously busiest in the summer, but still quieter than the big city. Amazing views, relaxed attitude.

 

[NW-Bound]

... Of course, to be fair to the Chinese, a mob of people is a mob of people, regardless of their nationality.

And I suspect the Chinese feel the same way about groups of Westerners visiting over there.

I have not been to China, but recently watched many Youtube videos of a South African man who has been living in China for more than 12 years. He speaks fluent Chinese, and married a Chinese woman. In traveling all over China, he found that many Chinese had never seen a white man in person, and many wanted a photo with an exotic foreigner for a trophy.

Perhaps the Forbidden City and certain sections of the Great Wall may be mobbed by tourists, but the rest of China is still isolated from the rest of the world. This is particularly true with their government censorship and control of the Internet access.

I found the above videos very interesting, as it shows China as viewed by an insider, yet with the eyes of a Westerner.

 

[Gearhead Jim]

We've been going in the "shoulder" seasons- Spring and Fall, for 40+ years because we use standby airline passes and have a better chance of getting on. The reduced crowds and lower hotel prices are a side benefit.


Just finished a week touring around Romania (now requires an International Driver's License) and had a great time, couple of years ago did the same in Slovenia. Eastern Europe reminds me of what the US was probably like just before or after WWII, which is more good news than bad.

 

[Nemo2]

Just finished a week touring around Romania.

Loved Romania!

 

[brett]

We knew it was time to stop visiting one popular island in Thailand when we had to ask the small family run restaurants to prepare our food the Thai way, ie with the full splash of curry, vs the tourist way. Have not been back to the area in four subsequent winters. Other, less touristy areas, don't ask.

 

[Nemo2]

We knew it was time to stop visiting one popular island in Thailand when we had to ask the small family run restaurants to prepare our food the Thai way, ie with the full splash of curry, vs the tourist way. Have not been back to the area in four subsequent winters. Other, less touristy areas, don't ask.

Been there, done that....circa 1986 driving through Greece with my late wife & her parents, (we on an R&R from Riyadh)......off season...stopped at a deserted out of the way restaurant.....menu loaded with hamburger meat variations.

Asked the owner if he served moussaka....he said "No, the tourists don't want it".

 

[brett]

In five years of spending winters in Thailand and eating in restaurants, markets, and street food, the only time we ever got sick was after eating a western meal in a Phuket restaurant that catered to North American tourists! Same in Vietnam and Malaysia. Eat what the locals eat. Eat where the locals eat. Avoid the tourist traps.

 

[brydanger]

Of course!
We are overpopulating the planet and everyone travels... how could we NOT end up with overtourism?

Our answer to this has always been to run further away (camp in a 4x4 van so we could get further "out" than any other RVs and campers, sail to the caribbean vs flying to an island, etc) but it is still getting harder to find those little private camp sites or beaches that we enjoy/prefer.

 

[Nemo2]

...it is still getting harder to find those little private camp sites or beaches that we enjoy/prefer.

I guess this one, on La Digue in the mid 1980s...(we walked one beach after another like it......saw two other people, and they were as surprised to see us as we were them.....especially since they were both naked ), has been overrun like the others:

 

[brett]

That beach is much like the one we spent a week at this past Feb. in Thailand. Baan Grood/Baan Krut Beach. Sometimes we walked for a few km's and only came across one or two people. Busier on the w'end with locals. With incredibly good family run restaurants and ice cold Chang beer. Best way to beat the cold winter months.

We plan to return!

 

[FreeBear]

Been there, done that....circa 1986 driving through Greece with my late wife & her parents, (we on an R&R from Riyadh)......off season...stopped at a deserted out of the way restaurant.....menu loaded with hamburger meat variations.



Asked the owner if he served moussaka....he said "No, the tourists don't want it".

Yikes! Disappointing too.

Was traveling in through the uppe Midwest awhile back and stopped in Indian restaurant. Was shocked to find beef on the menu! Definitely a first for me.

The food though was fantastic. No, I didn’t try the beef.

 

[ElizabethT]

We went to the Grand Canyon at the end of January 1985. It was well below zero and the snow was piled high. We were the only ones there. The only ones at the hotel outside the gate and the only ones in the South Kaibab visitors center. The only other person we saw was a ranger on a mule coming up out of the canyon as we were walking down. He took one look at our lack of proper gear and told us to turn right back around.

That was the greatest trip to a tourist attraction ever - having the entire Grand Canyon to ourselves. We can never go back now.

We backpacked it with the Sierra Club in 2015; six days and nights I will hold as among the most amazing of my life. We were many miles from civilization until the last day, and the brillance of the stars that far away from any man made lights, including the Milky Way, can't properly be described.

We did Isle Royale NP the same way in 2016, and while we weren't all alone on the trail, it was still pretty sparse. It's good to know there is still solitude to be found as long as I'm physically capable.

 

[Badger]

I the 70s and early 80s I would take off each summer in my VW bus for at least a month and travel around the southwest or up to Canada visiting National Parks and camping. The world wasn't so small back then but now it is too crowded and visiting the same natural sites isn't the same. Even traveling in the off seasons will put you in the middle of a lot of people and the trash they leave.

I'm glad I had the opportunity to travel the continent when I did but Thomas Wolfe was right. I even went to some of the places where I grew up and was disappointed when I realized it would never be like my memories.



Cheers!

 

[NW-Bound]

Venice is swamped, and Venetians can't hack it anymore. We visited in 2003, and have not been back. I wonder if we ever will.

I recall then walking around one early morning, and seeing shop owners swearing while cleaning up the mess left by backpackers overnight in front of the stores.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-49054042