Thanks for the comment. My name is not Mark, BTW. I should have picked Marking2024 - indicting my desire to retire in 2024.
probably delaying retirement plan
- Thread starter Mark2024
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Thanks for the comment. My name is not Mark, BTW. I should have picked Marking2024 - indicting my desire to retire in 2024.
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Mark2024:
I had a plan in my head for many years. We would retire the minute my young wife first became became eligible for her (reduced) teacher pension. With that and a 4% draw on our portfolio, we should have a fine retirement. All the calculators said so. I would be 55 and she would be 53. Then came the 2008 market meltdown and suddenly that scenario was not looking so rosy.
While financially we recovered relatively quickly from it, the experience convinced me that, before we retired, we should: a) have a better secured, inflation adjusted cash flow and b) have a larger portfolio. So we waited another 5 years, until she got an unreduced pension, I became eligible for a small pension from my last job and, of much greater value, retiree health care from that job. Now, we are care free and have been enjoying retirement for over 4 years.
There is no deadline to retire. You should retire when you feel comfortable and not sooner. If there is something you feel might be lacking in your plan, then take whatever steps are necessary to fill that gap. I would not be enjoying retirement half so much if I had not waited a little to be certain.
I had a plan in my head for many years. We would retire the minute my young wife first became became eligible for her (reduced) teacher pension. With that and a 4% draw on our portfolio, we should have a fine retirement. All the calculators said so. I would be 55 and she would be 53. Then came the 2008 market meltdown and suddenly that scenario was not looking so rosy.
While financially we recovered relatively quickly from it, the experience convinced me that, before we retired, we should: a) have a better secured, inflation adjusted cash flow and b) have a larger portfolio. So we waited another 5 years, until she got an unreduced pension, I became eligible for a small pension from my last job and, of much greater value, retiree health care from that job. Now, we are care free and have been enjoying retirement for over 4 years.
There is no deadline to retire. You should retire when you feel comfortable and not sooner. If there is something you feel might be lacking in your plan, then take whatever steps are necessary to fill that gap. I would not be enjoying retirement half so much if I had not waited a little to be certain.
Many facets of retirement. Math is ONE facet. And it's the fairly easy one. You are right. Definitely not just about the math. The other stuff has to be addressed. Some people go BACK to work after retiring for reasons other than math. Keep asking questions. I found that when the math does work, that is one less issue I have to figure out. Good luck to you sir.
LateToFIRE
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
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OP, As noted earlier, I cannot exactly throw stones: my NW is a measure higher than yours and yet here I am still working when so many people here have managed retirement on far less. So, I really do understand extremely well the difficulty in walking away from a very very cushy income, not to mention the gratification of watching your NW grow and compound year after year. If you started with less than zero like me, experiencing having this kind of wealth is unreal - and THAT is the problem - it feels very UNREAL - like something I cannot count on. Somehow, there is fear it will all be taken away, disappear, vanish into thin air, like it never existed. Because I was never acclimated to having it - its not part of my early experience.
I understand that it is not just math and even that the math is not purely objective. Plenty of debate around which math is the right math. One of my deepest fears is that all the math is wrong - and we're all going to be destitute and homeless someday. But, I know that is just my irrational fears trying to control my behavior.
Putting the pieces together from your comments, it seems clear that you recognize that your fears are irrational - the math works but its not just about the math. You're asking how people overcame their fear. I can only speak to my own thinking and how I have framed how I'll approach the decision:
(1) You'll hear a lot of people talking about trading money for time instead of time for money. The math says at this point I'm many times more likely to die rich than broke. That helps me put a value on that next dollar of earned income - what is it buying me? Would I ever get to spend it? How much security do I really need?
(2) I thoroughly enjoy working (most of the time) though it comes at a price for sure. I've never worked with the idea of retirement in mind. I've worked with the idea of Financial Independence in mind, or what we like to call F-U money in my trade - the flexibility to pursue whatever path I want and not put up with BS. Even once I "retire" there is no doubt I'll still be looking for ways to be productive, and probably earn some $$$, just in a different way, on my own terms.
(3) I also enjoy having enough income to enjoy a very nice lifestyle - one in which financial considerations are secondary. But, at this point wealth and passive income can replace earned income in this regard - this is where my early experiences betray me - I grew up placing more value on income than wealth. I thought I had learned otherwise in adulthood, but there still is that emotional doubt to overcome, to let go of that reliance on earned income.
(4) Somehow, over the years I've allowed my work to define me. Yuck! That's not good. It feels good when everything is going great, but it is a fleeting pleasure, like a drug addiction, and then its back to what have you done for me lately. I've focused more of my energy on creating a separate and distinct identity. That has been a critical element of preparation - at least in my case. They've made that a lot easier as of late for a variety of reasons I won't detail.
(5) As I look at my age demographic and folks a bit older, its really sinking in that I might only have a limited amount of time as a relatively healthy, able-bodied, person. How do I want to spend that valuable time? More time with family? Travel? Hobbies? Volunteer work? Coaching others? etc. For me, all of the above.
(6) My in-laws did provide a great example. They retired, had a great lifestyle, went through the whole LTC debacle, and even managed to leave a good bit behind, and they did so on far less than DW and I have accumulated. They showed us how to do it. I need to trust that.
So, I don't know exactly when or how I will make the transition. What I do know is that I can. I can do it and it will be ok. I can do it without reason to fear. It's my choice, my option. And its great to know you have options.
If you want to work - if that gives you the most pleasure - then work. I would be the last to judge. I know and respect a few folks who will probably drop dead at their desks, and that will be ok for them. The thing that disturbs me with you is that you are "suffering" for no apparent reason. It does not sound as if you enjoy work, nor do you enjoy your lifestyle - you sound trapped in a hellish existence. Why? This I do not understand.
swakyaby
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Have you tried tracking a year’s worth of typical expenses, and categorized them as essential vs nonessential expenses? Having that information should relieve a lot of anxiety about spending in retirement.
anothercog
Recycles dryer sheets
This week I got to say goodbye to my uncle. I was fortunate I happened to be on the East Coast at this time. I saw him on Monday and he passed on Tuesday. He was 73, had a wonderful family and far more money than he needed.
He loved his job and his family. When he was diagnosed with cancer 6 years ago, he figured he would be beat it, get back to work and things would be normal. He traveled a lot for work but if humanly possible he would fly out in the morning, make or take presentations, and fly back in time for a late dinner with family.i
He fought the cancer like hell and beat the odds for many years but pancreatic cancer is a formidable foe and a year into battling it he finally realized he would rather spend his remaining time with his family and grandkids than working.
He had more years than expected. I wanted to ask him if he would have retired sooner if he had to do it all over again but he was too far gone by the time I saw him. He really should have had a much longer, fun-filled retirement but the cancer had other plans for him.
We never know how much time we have. If you have something to retire to, and the math checks out, figure out what is keeping you from moving forward before a health crisis makes that decision for you and you find yourself not enjoying the retirement you imagined.
He loved his job and his family. When he was diagnosed with cancer 6 years ago, he figured he would be beat it, get back to work and things would be normal. He traveled a lot for work but if humanly possible he would fly out in the morning, make or take presentations, and fly back in time for a late dinner with family.i
He fought the cancer like hell and beat the odds for many years but pancreatic cancer is a formidable foe and a year into battling it he finally realized he would rather spend his remaining time with his family and grandkids than working.
He had more years than expected. I wanted to ask him if he would have retired sooner if he had to do it all over again but he was too far gone by the time I saw him. He really should have had a much longer, fun-filled retirement but the cancer had other plans for him.
We never know how much time we have. If you have something to retire to, and the math checks out, figure out what is keeping you from moving forward before a health crisis makes that decision for you and you find yourself not enjoying the retirement you imagined.
Lewis Clark
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Lots of people feel the way you do, and with far less resources. Everyone who voluntarily chooses to retire is leaving money on the table. With a six-figure salary you would be leaving more on the table than most.
You have run a few calculators and they all give you at least a 90% probability of success. Yes, these calculators can only back test against what might have happened in the past. None can predict the future. And none of us can know what the future will hold.
If you continue working, then at some point you will be trading time you cannot get back for money you will never spend.
What finally push me over the retirement cliff was the Safe Withdrawal Series of the earlyretirementnow.com blog. It's the best source I know for explaining the math of retirement. It's written by a former economist with a PhD who used to work in wealth management.
This was the point that turned on the light for me: Using monthly historical data going back as far as 1871, the failsafe initial withdrawal rate was about 3.25%. This assumes:
* Portfolio of around 70% stocks and 30% bonds
* Retirement can start at any time
* Withdrawals are adjusted for inflation
* A 60-year retirement
* Capital preservation. Meaning that the ending balance is greater than or equal to the balance at retirement on an inflation-adjusted basis.
For my wife and I:
* Our time horizon is far less than 60 years. More like 35 years. If we are lucky.
* We are willing to spend down some of our capital.
* Our withdrawal rate is less than 3.25%.
So even if the future is worse than the worst case of retirement history, we still have a large margin of safety. Eventually I got comfortable with the idea and retired.
Good luck with your decision.
You have run a few calculators and they all give you at least a 90% probability of success. Yes, these calculators can only back test against what might have happened in the past. None can predict the future. And none of us can know what the future will hold.
If you continue working, then at some point you will be trading time you cannot get back for money you will never spend.
What finally push me over the retirement cliff was the Safe Withdrawal Series of the earlyretirementnow.com blog. It's the best source I know for explaining the math of retirement. It's written by a former economist with a PhD who used to work in wealth management.
This was the point that turned on the light for me: Using monthly historical data going back as far as 1871, the failsafe initial withdrawal rate was about 3.25%. This assumes:
* Portfolio of around 70% stocks and 30% bonds
* Retirement can start at any time
* Withdrawals are adjusted for inflation
* A 60-year retirement
* Capital preservation. Meaning that the ending balance is greater than or equal to the balance at retirement on an inflation-adjusted basis.
For my wife and I:
* Our time horizon is far less than 60 years. More like 35 years. If we are lucky.
* We are willing to spend down some of our capital.
* Our withdrawal rate is less than 3.25%.
So even if the future is worse than the worst case of retirement history, we still have a large margin of safety. Eventually I got comfortable with the idea and retired.
Good luck with your decision.
wrigley
Full time employment: Posting here.
Koolau
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Yeah, I've known too many folks with pancreatic cancer. So far, a year or two is about the limit, so hooray for your uncle to live so long with it. Sounds like his family was very close which is even more important than an early retirement IMHO. So sorry for your loss.
Sorry to hear about your loss. If one follows the news, you would see many "rich and famous" left this world in their 70s. Yes, time is definitely more important than money sometimes.
Even millionaires worry about having enough money for retirement
While this is clearly an advertisement article, it did mention that "Even millionaires worry about having enough money for retirement".
In other words, I am not alone in worrying about outlive my $.
While this is clearly an advertisement article, it did mention that "Even millionaires worry about having enough money for retirement".
In other words, I am not alone in worrying about outlive my $.
Alex The Great
Recycles dryer sheets
The link does not work for me. But I found through the search:
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/even...ng-enough-money-for-retirement-123452417.html
It does not matter how much money do you have. There is always a failure ahead when expenses are not under control. Consumer world is designed to push people to spend money no matter what. The main question if someone has a character to stand against it or not.
Im a pretty anxious person generally.
Married 40 plus years, raised two kids.
Decided early to stash 20% in 403b and live on the rest of our low 6 figure income.
Husband is cancer survivor, i have a chronic health condition.
It was obviously 'time' in our early 60s, healthwise, stresswise, familywise.
I did a 3 year lookback of expenses, and checked expected SS, pension, IRA withdrawals.
We intentionally downsized housing, retired and are living happily debt free for 4 years. Im still surprised how easy the decision was once I realized I could trust that time with our grandson was absolutely more important than money.
Married 40 plus years, raised two kids.
Decided early to stash 20% in 403b and live on the rest of our low 6 figure income.
Husband is cancer survivor, i have a chronic health condition.
It was obviously 'time' in our early 60s, healthwise, stresswise, familywise.
I did a 3 year lookback of expenses, and checked expected SS, pension, IRA withdrawals.
We intentionally downsized housing, retired and are living happily debt free for 4 years. Im still surprised how easy the decision was once I realized I could trust that time with our grandson was absolutely more important than money.
2HOTinPHX
Full time employment: Posting here.
Just read through this thread from the start. I think the OP is suffering the same experience a lot of us are. Hard to go from working and getting that paycheck to spending money they worked so hard to accumulate. Retirement takes a leap of faith into the great unknown. I am getting ready to do it in about a month I hope..
LOL...with far less. But with reading a lot here, planning budget, using calculators and watching a lot of videos I think we're as ready as we're ever going to be.
I started a thread with some inspirational videos for those still in the fence. OP I think the first one there may be your situation. No matter how much you accumulate it may not give you the feeling you have enough.
https://www.early-retirement.org/forums/showthread.php?t=118539
LOL...with far less. But with reading a lot here, planning budget, using calculators and watching a lot of videos I think we're as ready as we're ever going to be.
I started a thread with some inspirational videos for those still in the fence. OP I think the first one there may be your situation. No matter how much you accumulate it may not give you the feeling you have enough.
https://www.early-retirement.org/forums/showthread.php?t=118539
Be wary of what I think you are "guilty" of. Confirmation Bias.
Koolau
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Of course, there are millionaires and then, there are MILLIONAIRES. My "low, single digit" millions leave room for worry, I suppose. If you're a Gulfstream V owner, I hope you don't have to worry too much (except where to fly for the week end.) YMMV
HGTVFanatic
Recycles dryer sheets
Same. Laid off at 59. Our daughter had twins two days before and her husband was deployed. We were needed big time so it was fate. I took SS at 64 and with my husband’s pension plus his SS, we are living very comfortably. Only accessed our investments to pay for new roof and water heater. We travel in our RV and have no debts. We are living very comfortably and have more money than we know what to do with.
Please watch the retirearly500k channel on YouTube. This guy is living good on 500K .
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thanks for the suggestion. I guess it is all about the definition of "living good". Yes, I did go to YouTube to watch several videos of reirearly500K. Other than making YouTube videos, that guy does not do anything else. Everyday of his "retirement", I bet he was thinking about the idea of next video.
In the theme of many are bragging about BTD, that guy's retirement is just surviving. Anything unusual happens, he will be broke.
NW-Bound
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
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I just looked briefly at the above YouTuber channel. He retired in 2021 with 500K, and is now 61. If the guy is frugal and has no debts, he will do OK. And if the economy gets bad, he can claim SS early.
2HOTinPHX
Full time employment: Posting here.
I think this video would be helpful to OP from what I linked above thread.....
https://youtu.be/wVhXkerpf6s?si=kuwctSpvZ4pWrhEG
https://youtu.be/wVhXkerpf6s?si=kuwctSpvZ4pWrhEG
well, if you think thinking of what to make for the next YouTube video everyday is a good way in your retirement is doing OK. Then, we are in different channel.
So I am a couple years older than that guy, also living very frugally with no debts. Other than that I am getting a 6 figure salary and full benefit and he is getting only $2K a month from YouTube. What is any advantage he has over me? He probably works more hours a week than me. I could quit anytime and do nothing but he has to work for YouTube every week.
2HOTinPHX
Full time employment: Posting here.
He seems happy with his current lifestyle. Hopefully you are too.
Have you seen charts like this?
View attachment 47177
Well. He has no other choice. I do. I am going to continue to work to get into a better financial situation. So that I could have a more enjoyable retirement - not to worry about anything.
PS. that attachment link does not seem to work.
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2HOTinPHX
Full time employment: Posting here.
Try googling James Canole retirement trap. I think you might get something out of it.
One thing I have learned by reading many many post here is no matter how much money you save most everyone questions if it is enough. Just human nature.
One thing I have learned by reading many many post here is no matter how much money you save most everyone questions if it is enough. Just human nature.
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