RANT: Lightning strike close to my house killed my electronics!

years ago we were watching a horror movie and I was the only person facing the screen door. i saw the very close strike to the pole and transformer, so I didn't scream like the other 3 people :D
The TV got very bright and never worked again. It was not my place so I don't know what else got cooked, but it was within 100 yards.
 
Did the UPS/surge protectors prevent things plugged into them from being fried?

No, not at all. Everything that was blown up had a surge protector on it. It took out my firestick, lan hub, and dish receiver that was behind our tv but left the tv and chromecast alone. That stuff was all on an "expensive" surge protector.
 
Originally Posted by ERD50 View Post
Agreed. The resistor isn't going to do any good for a lightening strike, the only thing I was thinking was that it would bleed off static charge. Your use of an inductor with Hi-Z at the frequency of interest would do that too.
And all that is irrelevant to what causes damage. ...

OK, but isn't that exactly what I said in what you quoted?

It was said in the context of that video - static electricity building up on an antenna.

Your suggestion of an NE-2 neon lamp would be good for limiting to 90 volts also (to be a bit more accurate, they limit to 90 V, the firing voltage. The 60V you mention is what they clamp to after firing). Although I'm not sure if an NE-2 would present too much capacitance for an antenna feed, or if the transmit voltage peaks would exceed thefiring voltage of the NE-2.

... In every case, it is about a connection to what does all protection - earth ground.

To be effective, a protector must connect low impedance (ie less than 10 feet) to earth ground. Only Type 1 and Type 2 protectors are robust enough to make that connection. Without threatening human life.
.... .

Good information. One of the "whole house" protection units I'm looking at is this, a type 2, and my panel is only a few feet from the ground rod (I'll measure later), on the basement wall at the feed:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01AQAKRSS

I don't expect miracles from a device like this, but it can certainly protect against some spikes, and for the money I figure is better than nothing.

-ERD50
 
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OK, but isn't that exactly what I said in what you quoted?

It was said in the context of that video - static electricity building up on an antenna. ...

Your suggestion of an NE-2 neon lamp would be good for limiting to 90 volts also (to be a bit more accurate, they limit to 90 V, the firing voltage. The 60V you mention is what they clamp to after firing). Although I'm not sure if an NE-2 would present too much capacitance for an antenna feed, or if the transmit voltage peaks would exceed thefiring voltage of the NE-2.
Great discussion. But a few technical problems. For example, static building up on an antenna never caused damage. Protection already inside all electronics makes static electricity irrelevant.

For example, this (now obsolete semiconductor ) can be damaged by 60 volts. And when part of a system, will withstand 15,000 volts without damage.

Reasons for NE-2 neon lights is also why high frequency protectors also use Gas Discharge Tubes. Those also have low capacitance so that Gigahertz signals are not diminished. Those also trigger on a high voltage. Create plasma to conduct at a much lower voltage.

Static charges on antenna are a fable justified by emotions. All RF transceivers (even early 1960s semiconductor transceivers) routinely suffered direct static discharges to their antennas without damage.

Antenna protection is about destructive currents - ie lightning. So antennas are required, by code, to be earthed. Either directly to earthing electrodes or via a protector.

For example, that protection is standard even on commercial AM radio towers. That transmitter tower cannot connect directly to earth. So a spark gap makes that required connection. When antennas must be earthed via a direct hardwire connection or via a protector.

Furthermore, code requires an antenna lead to also have another earth ground where it enters a building. Properly installed antennas route an antenna lead down to the service entrance to be earthed. And only then rise back up to enter a building. Various National Electrical Codes (starting around Article 800) require that.

Rightly noted: a J pole antenna does not mean an earth ground exists. But that J-pole can be earthed directly, without a protector, to have best protection. Without diminishing antenna performance.

Yes, some antennas cannot connect directly to earth. So protectors are used. TV antennas routinely connect directly to earth without diminished performance. Depends on the design. But antenna must have some connection to earth.

Tripping voltage for an NE-2 is anywhere from above 60 volts to less than 100 volts. Once triggered, that voltage drops to well below 60V. So NE-2 (neon glow lamps) were common even in 1960 transceivers. Because that less than 1 millimap, conducted by an NE-2 bulb, means all static charges (thousands or ten thousands volts) are made irrelevant. Its trigger voltage is not its conducting voltage. It might take 90 volts to trigger a conversion from gas to plasma. Then voltage Through plasma is always well below 60 volts.

How does lightning work? It converts air to plasma. If I recall, lightning constructs 30 foot plasma sections. Once every section between cloud and earth is plasma, then the cloud discharges across what is now a three mile, tiny voltage, connection. NE-2 bulbs do same to make static charges irrelevant.

I ignore most YouTube videos. Too many outright lies (ie subjective claims). Learn this stuff from science. Or even the various articles in QST Magazine (the ARRL magazine) that discuss it. Too many YouTube videos promote scams. Are often why many repeat (recite) scams.

First indication that it is best considered a lie - it does not say why by citing relevant numbers. No numbers means he is best ignored.

Eaton protector. If that Type 2 protector does not protect from direct lightning strikes (and other surges), then a human mistake exists. Lightning is typically 20,000 amps. So a minimal 'whole house' protector must connect at least 50,000 amps (low impedance) to earth ground. And remain functional. Even many decades later. Protectors never do protection. Protectors are only connecting devices to earth ground. (Therefore we say an antenna connected to earth, via a protector, is earthed.)

Most attention focuses on what defines protection. That low impedance (ie hardwire has no sharp bends or splices) connection to and the quality of earthing electrodes.

Low impedance is just one of many reasons why wall receptacle safety ground is not a relevant ground. It is only safety ground - to protect humans. It does nothing to protect appliances or make a protector effective. It cannot connect low impedance to earth. Plug-in protector is only Type 3. A threat to human life if connected low impedance to earth.

A protector is only as effective as its earth ground. Type 3 protectors only do something useful if a properly earthed Type 1 or Type 2 protector exists.

Orange County FL suffered repeat damage to Emergency Response hardware. They finally hired people who know this stuff. That case study. What was fixed to eliminate all damage? Only earth grounds.

We've been at this business for a dozen years, and not one of our clients has ever lost a single piece of equipment after we installed a proper grounding system.


No magic box (protector, UPS, power conditioner, etc) claims effective protection. Protection is provided by the item that harmlessly dissipates hundreds of thousands of joules. Single point earth ground. As so many professionals have said for so long.

Protection is only and always about where *hundreds of thousands of joules* harmlessly dissipate. Effective protection only exist when a surge it not anywhere inside. Then best protection, already inside every appliance (dishwasher, LED & CFL bulbs, central air, recharging electronics, GFCIs, smoke detectors), is not overwhelmed.

Good is to see one discussing technology rather than post emotions. Critical to appreciating what works (for anything - not just electricity) means relevant numbers are always discussed.
 
Great discussion. But a few technical problems. For example, static building up on an antenna never caused damage. Protection already inside all electronics makes static electricity irrelevant.



Orange County FL suffered repeat damage to Emergency Response hardware.

Which is it?
 
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Which is it?
Orange County suffered repeated damage until (obviously) they hired professionals. Those professionals then said:
We've been at this business for a dozen years, and not one of our clients has ever lost a single piece of equipment after we installed a proper grounding system.
Obviously fixed was the reason for damage at so many county locations. Fixed was what does all protection - earth ground.

Static electricity is not a destructive current. Sub-milliamps - not thousands of amps. Even made irrelevant by protection already inside semiconductors. Static electricity is made further irrelevant by connections to earth.

I apologize from much text that was irrelevant. I had confused this discussion with another. Since moderators insist on reviewing these texts, then I discovered and was unable to remove irrelevant paragraphs.

Lightning damage is so routinely averted (even 100 years ago) that damage is considered a human mistake. An investigation to locate that human mistake starts with THE most critical component in every layer of protection: earthing electrodes and connections to them.

Protectors are only connecting devices to what does all protection. Protection only exists when a destructive transients dissipates harmlessly outside; is not anywhere inside. As understood over 100 years ago.
 
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I had confused this discussion with another.

No problem. I just picked up on the obvious oxymoron you created and wanted to understand which one was correct.
 
Since moderators insist on reviewing these texts, then I discovered and was unable to remove irrelevant paragraphs.

Please don't misunderstand. Moderators don't review posts before they appear.
The forum software automatically holds back posts from new members (or those with very few posts like yourself) that contain links to external sites. Those are flagged for a moderator to look at, because they often contain spam.

Your posts were fine, and when they were noticed they were approved. Once you get a little experience and recognition here, the forum software will know you and that won't happen any more.
 
The forum software automatically holds back posts from new members (or those with very few posts like yourself) that contain links to external sites. Those are flagged for a moderator to look at, ...
I appreciate that. But once I realized my mistake, I could not correct it. Just so others are not confused, "never mind".
 
I appreciate that. But once I realized my mistake, I could not correct it. Just so others are not confused, "never mind".

If there's anything in your posts that you feel needs correction, please PM a moderator with your edit proposal and we can review. Again, as Braumeister noted, this is for forum protection and usually only applies to new posts, to protect against you-would-not-believe-how-much-spam.
 
...

Eaton protector. If that Type 2 protector does not protect from direct lightning strikes (and other surges), then a human mistake exists. Lightning is typically 20,000 amps. So a minimal 'whole house' protector must connect at least 50,000 amps (low impedance) to earth ground. And remain functional. Even many decades later. Protectors never do protection. Protectors are only connecting devices to earth ground. (Therefore we say an antenna connected to earth, via a protector, is earthed.)
....

I appreciate all the detailed info, but I feel you are in the land of "don't let perfect be the enemy of good".

I have no expectations that I can protect my home against a direct lightening strike for a few hundred or even a few thousand dollars. Lightening can hit a chimney/roof, and do damage and/or start a fire, separate from any electrical damage. But ( I need to do more research), it sounds like for a few hundred, I can protect myself against a transient from a nearby (bit not too near!) strike. And that sounds like a reasonable investment to me.

-ERD50
 
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I have no expectations that I can protect my home against a direct lightening strike for a few hundred or even a few thousand dollars.
And yet is was routine even over 100 years ago so that lightning did not connect into the heads (via headsets) of operators.

Your telco's CO suffers about 100 surges with each storm. Using protectors on each incoming wire that cost maybe $1 (much less back then). Similar devices were installed where their telco wire enters each house.

With the advent of transistors, telcos reviewed existing protection. With but a few minor problems, inexpensive protection even that long ago was found perfectly good for semiconductors in COs. Again, protection is that simple, that inexpensive ... and that much unknown to layman educated only by myths and hearsay.

How often is your town without phone service for four days while they replace that $million switching computer in a CO? Never? Must not happen anywhere in the world. They only use what is similar to what all homeowners can implement. For about $1 per protected appliance.

Electronics atop the Empire State Building would suffer about 23 direct strikes annually - without damage. So many direct strikes that both GE and Westinghouse did much research on protection there in the 1930s. That threat number for the WTC was 40 - without damage.

Direct strikes without damage has been routine using items that cost single digit or two digit dollars for the past 100 years. So many professionals have stated so. And support their contentions with examples. As even defined by the cited Sun Server Room manual.

Or this from an AT&T forum.
By far, the whole house hardwired surge protectors provide the best protection.

No facts suppose your beliefs. Direct strikes without damage is routine. But again, that protection is defined by a connection to and quality of earth ground.

To not know that is to deny even what Ben Franklin demonstrated over 250 years ago. Unfortunately many, who do suffer damage, do not want to blame the reason for that damage. Themselves.

Or from an engineer for a TV station that suffers many direct strikes without damage.
> Well I assert, from personal and broadcast experience spanning 30 years, that you can design a system that will handle *direct lightning strikes* on a routine basis. It takes some planning and careful layout, but it's not hard, nor is it overly expensive. At WXIA-TV, my other job, we take direct lightning strikes nearly every time there's a thunderstorm. Our downtime from such strikes is almost non-existant. The last time we went down from a strike, it was due to a strike on the power company's lines knocking *them* out, ...

Where is even one fact or number that supports denials? Numbers say effective 'whole house' protector means direct lightning strikes without damage. Why would anyone dispute that without any experience and without facts tempered by numbers?

Nearby strikes (induced surges) do not damage. Protection already inside all electronics makes such noise irrelevant. Damage only exists when that current has both an incoming and outgoing path, destructively, through appliances.

Unfortunately, many assume a strike somewhere else was not incoming and outgoing through the house. For the same reason, one is told to keep his feet together during a lightning storm. Lightning striking a nearby tree went through the bodies of many sleeping camper. That direct strike to the tree was also a direct strike to those many boys in their sleeping bags. But again, this means learning the science long before making any conclusions. Otherwise those conclusions are only justified by junk science.
 
.. please PM a moderator with your edit proposal and we can review.
Unfortunately I could not read that post to state which items should not be removed. I hoped I could edit it when it finally appeared. I couldn't. So the best I could do (later) was apologize.

Appreciate that no emotions exist. It happened because that is how the system works. Created by my mistake. I noted it - only logically. No emotions cast or even implied blame. Stated were only the facts as they existed.

I am confused why anyone has so much concern over my mistake? It is how the system work. So be it.
 
And yet is was routine even over 100 years ago so that lightning did not connect into the heads (via headsets) of operators.

Your telco's CO suffers about 100 surges with each storm. Using protectors on each incoming wire that cost maybe $1 (much less back then). Similar devices were installed where their telco wire enters each house. ...

Can you boil this down to something actionable for a homeowner?

Maybe it's me, but I'm not really getting what the solution(s) is(are) from your postings.

Reading up a bit, the recommendations seem to be to verify that the ground rod is < 25 ohms (on my to-do list), and that all safety grounds are connected to that single point (they look to be, will look closer later). Add in a Type 2 surge protector, as close as possible (and < 10') to the incoming power and ground - maybe one like this:

https://www.eaton.com/us/en-us/skuPage.CHSPT2ULTRA.html

Is that close?

-ERD50
 
^^ +1
About 15 years ago, I had a direct lightning hit to my double 3 story chimney. It hit one of the bird preventer caps and sent it 100 feet into the neighbors yard. It damaged the chimney and scattered about 20 bricks into my yard. It also damaged my LR fireplace and hearth by creating a floor to ceiling crack. No damage to fireplace in basement.

However, we had no electrical damage done. I am not aware of any protector in my circuit box, built 1991, on the other side of house. Did we just luck out? There is no external lightning rod on the chimney.
 
... Reading up a bit, the recommendations seem to be to verify that the ground rod is < 25 ohms (on my to-do list), and that all safety grounds are connected to that single point (they look to be, will look closer later). Add in a Type 2 surge protector, as close as possible (and < 10') to the incoming power and ground - maybe one like this:
https://www.eaton.com/us/en-us/skuPage.CHSPT2ULTRA.html

Safety ground does not connect to earth ground - for appliance protection. Again, perspective. Every pipe is leaking water in your house. Why do we say they are not leaking? Because the leaking number is so tiny.

Same applies to safety ground. It is more than 10 feet from earth ground electrodes. For surge protection, it is all but completely disconnected. It is connected only for currents that might threaten humans. Impedance numbers (discussed previously) say why.

Numbers are never seen in a first reading. Review those numbers. To learn why safety ground is not a connection to earth ground. Perspective.

That Eaton is an example of a connecting device to earth ground. Like all protectors, it does not do protection. A recommended solution because (and only if) it connects low impedance (ie hardwire not inside any metallic conduit) to earthing electrodes.

That Eaton is rated for 108,000 amps. It exceeds 50,000 amps. So it should remains functional for many decades after many direct lightning strikes.

That is protector life expectancy. The art of protection is that connection to and quality of earth ground.

For example, lightning kept striking a wall. They installed lightning rods connected to 8' earth ground rods. Lightning struck that wall again.

Eventually learned: that wall contained bathroom plumbing that was connected to deeper limestone. Lightning rods were only in sand. Longer electrodes were driven well into that limestone. Then the best (conductive) path to distant earthborne charges was via lightning rods and longer rods; not bathroom pipes. Another example of the art of earthing.

25 ohms is a vague but relevant number. What really matters is conductivity, via electrodes, that connects to distant earthborne charges. Geology is a critical parameter.

That Eaton is one popular example of an effective protector.

Same and best protection exists when all receptacles are three wire or two. (Safety ground does or does not exist.) Safety grounds throughout a house do nothing to make or increase appliance protection.
 
^^ +1
About 15 years ago, I had a direct lightning hit to my double 3 story chimney. ...

However, we had no electrical damage done. I am not aware of any protector in my circuit box, built 1991, on the other side of house.
What was the electrical current path from that cloud to distant earthborne charges? Apparently that electric current path used the chimney to make a connection to earth and electrical charges maybe four miles away. So that current did not go through anything inside the house.

Also why Franklin's lightning rods worked. It connected that current to earth on a path that was not (need not be) through wooden steeples.

Protection is always about how charges in a cloud connect to distant earthborne charges. A most common path is a strike to electric wires many blocks away. That current is incoming to every household appliance. Only damaged is one or two appliance that made a best connection to earth and distant earthborne charges.

Effective protection always makes that connection outside a structure. Then best protection inside all appliances is not overwhelmed.

And yes, mistakes can be easily made. Electricity can often find other paths that human did not originally see. Many items, that are considered not conductive (ie concrete), are quite conductive.
 
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So should I install a lightning rod for the chimney? I will be BTD on a new rear deck with roof so perhaps I can put a rod in when the put up the piers. Or am I just asking for a strike then? All of our electrical, phone and CATV cables are buried in our neighborhood of 300. We've lived here for over 30 years, and they say it doesn't strike twice......:)
 
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All of our electrical, phone and CATV cables are buried in our neighborhood of 300. We've lived here for over 30 years, and they say it doesn't strike twice......:)
Does not matter if incoming wires are overhead or underground. A professional [Tech Note](https://www.erico.com/catalog/literature/TNCR002.pdf) demonstrated this concept. Lightning is incoming even on that underground wire.

Neighborhood history, over decades, is another relevant consideration. Many may suffer one surge in seven years. Due to robust protection already inside appliances, that surge might exist and not cause damage. Geology is another factor that can change that threat number significantly even in the same town.

Since a 'whole house' solution is about $1 per protected appliance (compared to $25 or $80 for plug-in protectors), then homeowners install best protection anyway. To protect from surges created by tree rodents, wind, linemen errors, other human mistakes, and utility switching.

Underground wires are still connected to overhead wires. A direct lightning strike to those overhead wires many blocks away is also a direct strike incoming to all household appliances.
 
Yes, I had this a few decades ago. Lightening struck the house next door and blew out our TV. Fortunately this before home computers, cell phones, etc. existed.
You may want to consider a whole house surge protector. I'm considering doing this to protect everything. I wonder if I could get an insurance discount if I got this.
 
The most important thing to do

The single most important thing you can do is have a single-point ground. Lightning is trying to distribute electrons across the earth. If you have one ground rod for your power entrance and a second for your cable service, make sure they are bonded together with a low resistance cable.

If you do not do that lightning will try to find a way to get electrons to both ground rods and the easiest path is through your equipment.

ALL ELECTRONICS SHOULD BE CONNECTED TO THAT SINGLE GROUND. You can add more ground rods, but connect them to the single ground point.

In communication services this concept is called a "ground window".

CT Retiree
 
I always pay the price and get Surge Protectors on all of my electronics. On one house I used to own I also had a whole house surge protector wired into the circuit box.

I also have a UPS/Line Conditioner/Surge Protector on the really special stuff.

Decades ago, Steve Ciarca of Ciarca's Circuit Cellar (BYTE Magazine), ran an article on soldering MOVs into a cheap power strip. Why? Because he lost thousands of dollars because of a lightning strike. Nowadays, Surge Protector power strips are cheap insurance that you can take with you as needed.
 
I had a lightening strike a number of years ago. In my case nothing that was on a surge protector was damaged, but items not protected were damaged. My 2 cents for the average homeowner:
1. Install surge protectors on any electronics such as TVs, computers, phones, etc. Get the highest joule rating you can.
2. Install a whole house surge protector. After getting hit I installed a Square D HEPD80 on the main breaker before it enters the house. There are a number of brands out there, but install the largest joule rated one you can get. It won't cost much more than a smaller one and the installation costs will be the same.
These actions won't guarantee protection from lightening, but will improve your odds. Dealing with a lightening strike can be a real Pain.
 
Buy Surge Protectors on anything that is important to you.

Buy a UPS with Line Conditioning on anything that is critical to you.

Note that these also come with insurance... however, I haven't heard really good things about that.
 
Since so many people are still replying on this (and probably not reading all the comments) I will again state that I did have surge protectors and UPS on all things that blew up.

I have also ordered a CHSPT2ULTRA and 50A double pole breaker as suggested by WESTOM. I will install these in the near future and help my father install them in his home as well.

Total financial hit with all the things I've lost so far has been $28. I had a lot of spares and didn't replace everything. Must better than the $250K I've lost in TQQQ since the storm hit two weeks ago. :mad:
 
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