haha
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
It's just an accounting/budgeting device. No money gets moved until it's time to buy a new car.
Mikey
ready at 39...have i missed anything?
- Thread starter ozarkjohn
- Start date
It's just an accounting/budgeting device. No money gets moved until it's time to buy a new car.
Mikey
great input!
thanks you all for the input and observations! for the record, i'm currently doing telecom R&D work and am burned out on this collapsing industry. my target/current budget is as follows (with the exception of health care - which my employeer kinda provides):
Annual expenses:
Recreation, vacation, gifts, toys etc.. $3,000
Property taxes $2,000
Car insurance $800
Household mtce $700
Homewoner insurance $500
Heat - 3 tons wood pellets $500
Annual total: $7,000
Monthly: $625
Monthly expenses:
Food $500
Health care (ins, co-pays, dental etc..) $450
Transportation
thanks you all for the input and observations! for the record, i'm currently doing telecom R&D work and am burned out on this collapsing industry. my target/current budget is as follows (with the exception of health care - which my employeer kinda provides):
Annual expenses:
Recreation, vacation, gifts, toys etc.. $3,000
Property taxes $2,000
Car insurance $800
Household mtce $700
Homewoner insurance $500
Heat - 3 tons wood pellets $500
Annual total: $7,000
Monthly: $625
Monthly expenses:
Food $500
Health care (ins, co-pays, dental etc..) $450
Transportation
great input!
thanks you all for the input and observations! for the record, i'm currently doing telecom R&D work and am burned out on this collapsing industry. my target/current budget is as follows (with the exception of health care - which my employeer kinda provides):
Annual expenses:
Recreation, vacation, gifts, toys etc.. $3,000
Property taxes $2,000
Car insurance $800
Household mtce $700
Homeowner insurance $500
Heat - 3 tons wood pellets $500
Annual total: $7,000
Monthly: $625
Monthly expenses:
Food $500
Health care (ins, co-pays, dental etc..) $450
Transportation $250
Communications (phone, inet etc..) $125
Electric $75
Clothing (incl. laundry) $25
Personal hygene & grooming $25
Monthly subtotal: $1,425
Annual total: $24,000
i am not dependent on a "back to the earth" type existence, but i do enjoy and practice self reliance, vegetable gardening, and minimal consumerism. i also expect that i will continue to be active in volunteer activites (scouting, church, environmental causes, habitat etc...) and will likely work on generating some minimal income (and major QOL benefits) from my hobbies of wooden boat building and alternate energy (wind & solar). i developed a sucessfull small business in my early 20's (satellite tv) and know many of the in's-and-out's as well as the economic realities, so i don't want to count on any of these ventures panning out.
thanks you all for the input and observations! for the record, i'm currently doing telecom R&D work and am burned out on this collapsing industry. my target/current budget is as follows (with the exception of health care - which my employeer kinda provides):
Annual expenses:
Recreation, vacation, gifts, toys etc.. $3,000
Property taxes $2,000
Car insurance $800
Household mtce $700
Homeowner insurance $500
Heat - 3 tons wood pellets $500
Annual total: $7,000
Monthly: $625
Monthly expenses:
Food $500
Health care (ins, co-pays, dental etc..) $450
Transportation $250
Communications (phone, inet etc..) $125
Electric $75
Clothing (incl. laundry) $25
Personal hygene & grooming $25
Monthly subtotal: $1,425
Annual total: $24,000
i am not dependent on a "back to the earth" type existence, but i do enjoy and practice self reliance, vegetable gardening, and minimal consumerism. i also expect that i will continue to be active in volunteer activites (scouting, church, environmental causes, habitat etc...) and will likely work on generating some minimal income (and major QOL benefits) from my hobbies of wooden boat building and alternate energy (wind & solar). i developed a sucessfull small business in my early 20's (satellite tv) and know many of the in's-and-out's as well as the economic realities, so i don't want to count on any of these ventures panning out.
I've been watching this thread with interest, especially the comments pertaining to kids (not goat husbandry, Hyper). We have for the most part always practiced a LBYM lifestyle and the boys have been used to it. We don't make it sound like a burden and I'm very careful not to use *We can't afford it* too often. We talk about choices in spending, giving up control for momentary pleasure, needs versus wants, yadda, yadda, yadda. My standard Mom mantra has been *we are responsible for your needs but not all of your wants*. They also know that if they really want something, they can earn money to get it. Now, before you think these poor little deprived things with no fun-they have every electronic gadget and game. We have cable, internet, rent DVDs.
How do they affect the budget? My healthcare insurance is higher. My clothing budget is higher but it is only 25/month for the 4 of us. We live very nicely on what others discard. Thrift stores rock. The most expensive item is shoes for 2 growing boys. I budget 50/month for education. This is a very loose category as we consider most things in life educational but I use this money to pay for whatever we want to do at the time, books, concerts, plays, magazine subscription, actual classes. I invest 50/mo/child in their college saving plan. No, it won't pay for their complete college education but it will get them started if that's what they choose. Food is probably higher but is less than others here, coming in at around 350/mo. As the older son is now 15.5 I can look forward to car insurance rate increases in the foreseeable future.
I have had to discount all the *it costs x $ amt to raise a child* and focus on what I really wanted to provde for my children and family. It is sometimes a tough battle because consumerism is so invasive.
If you dream it, you can do it (quote by someone famous)
Judy
Edited to add: We have never spent more than 800/annually for gifts, that includes Christmas. The boys do have generous grandparents :
How do they affect the budget? My healthcare insurance is higher. My clothing budget is higher but it is only 25/month for the 4 of us. We live very nicely on what others discard. Thrift stores rock. The most expensive item is shoes for 2 growing boys. I budget 50/month for education. This is a very loose category as we consider most things in life educational but I use this money to pay for whatever we want to do at the time, books, concerts, plays, magazine subscription, actual classes. I invest 50/mo/child in their college saving plan. No, it won't pay for their complete college education but it will get them started if that's what they choose. Food is probably higher but is less than others here, coming in at around 350/mo. As the older son is now 15.5 I can look forward to car insurance rate increases in the foreseeable future.
I have had to discount all the *it costs x $ amt to raise a child* and focus on what I really wanted to provde for my children and family. It is sometimes a tough battle because consumerism is so invasive.
If you dream it, you can do it
(quote by someone famous)Judy
Edited to add: We have never spent more than 800/annually for gifts, that includes Christmas. The boys do have generous grandparents :
J
John Galt
Guest
True!
Be a productive member of society for 30+ years.
Pay into SS/CPP.
Don't try to get something for nothing.
Be debt free. Pay off the mortgage.
Pay yourself 10% each and every year into 401k's or RRSPs.
Raise productive members of society to carry on your line.
Another 10 years and you should be close.
Not to pick on Zipper, but I see this kind of thinking on the board every now and again, and it always gets my back up.
What is a "productive member of society" some sap who toils at a desk job 50hrs a week for 40 years? Does pushing a pencil until your head is completely gray make you a better person somehow?
A "productive member of society" is someone who produces more than they consume. And in this society there is a clear measure of that-- it's your income less expenses. Someone who makes a million dollars a year and spends a million is not productive, they're just a highly paid good-for-nothing.
Ozarkjohn is 39 and he and his wife have between them put away more than 750K. That tells me that they have worked hard to produce a lot of value for other people, and asked very little in return. What right do we have to call them unproductive when the proof of their productivity and efficiency is staring us in the face?
Working 10 years longer to accomplish just as much doesn't make you a saint, it makes you a stooge.
And what's this crap about having children?!? What business is it of ours if someone decides not to have a kid?
Does that make them a bad person, or somehow not a "productive member of society?"
If so, here are some other good-for-nothing-childless-bums we should shun: George Washington, Mother Teresa, Imanuel Kant, Jesus Christ, T.E. Lawrence, Ayn Rand, Grace Hopper, Amelia Earhart, and Florence Nightingale. I'm sure I could go on for hours.
Hyperborea
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Well you had me until that point.
Calgary_Girl
Full time employment: Posting here.
Yeah, I've commented on this before but I'll chime in here as well. $25k/yr without rent to me would be very sweet as well. That's a little more than I spend right now and I always have a hell of a good time. Disclaimers are that I'm single, have quite low maintenance taste, and i'm still working. I must admit tho the budget posted by Bob_Smith got me thinking about allocating replacement expenses for capital items a bit more acurately. Still, even adding that in, I don't see my total going over $25k/yr, and I have posted numbers in the past.
As has been said before, just cause you can do it doesn't mean you should tho. If you have a higher maintenance lifestyle, young kids, aging parents, and/or a family, etc, I would take a serious look at how you are living now, and an even more serious look at how that is going to change as kids grow up, parents age, and you age. Everything is risk vs reward, and to retire young on $25k/yr will take alot of self confidence and an ability to adapt. Neither is a problem for me, but again, I'm single and don't have a care in the world !!!!!
Bob Smith, thanks for the numbers and analysis you provided, I'm working them into my scheme.
Good luck whatever you choose, let us know how it goes.
-Pan-
As has been said before, just cause you can do it doesn't mean you should tho. If you have a higher maintenance lifestyle, young kids, aging parents, and/or a family, etc, I would take a serious look at how you are living now, and an even more serious look at how that is going to change as kids grow up, parents age, and you age. Everything is risk vs reward, and to retire young on $25k/yr will take alot of self confidence and an ability to adapt. Neither is a problem for me, but again, I'm single and don't have a care in the world !!!!!
Bob Smith, thanks for the numbers and analysis you provided, I'm working them into my scheme.
Good luck whatever you choose, let us know how it goes.
-Pan-
J
John Galt
Guest
Being "single' and "not having a care in the world"
kind of go together in my experience
Hey panhead, my bike is stored now but I rode well
into October. Do you ever go down to BIKE WEEK
in Daytona Beach in March?
JG
kind of go together in my experience
Hey panhead, my bike is stored now but I rode well
into October. Do you ever go down to BIKE WEEK
in Daytona Beach in March?
JG
Hey JG !!
definitely OT:
Daytona is the one big one I haven't been to yet. I've tried 3 times to get there and every time something catastrophic happens. I posted a while ago about a good friend of mine dying of a heart attack the night before we were supposed to leave the last time I tried to go. After that, i haven't even tried. Who knows, maybe this year I will, but if I do, it'll be last minute. Load the bike in the back of the truck and pack a tent.
As for storing the bike, I don't. She's always ready to go. I rode a couple of weeks ago when I was home for thanksgiving (I'm back in Europe again now), and every (reasonably) warm day I have time, she comes out !
...and as for being single and not having a care in the world, you're right ! They do go together well ! I've had several attempts at trying to "tame" me, but it hasn't worked yet !
Sorry about hijacking the thread for a couple of posts.... ;-)
-Pan-
definitely OT:
Daytona is the one big one I haven't been to yet. I've tried 3 times to get there and every time something catastrophic happens. I posted a while ago about a good friend of mine dying of a heart attack the night before we were supposed to leave the last time I tried to go. After that, i haven't even tried. Who knows, maybe this year I will, but if I do, it'll be last minute. Load the bike in the back of the truck and pack a tent.
As for storing the bike, I don't. She's always ready to go. I rode a couple of weeks ago when I was home for thanksgiving (I'm back in Europe again now), and every (reasonably) warm day I have time, she comes out !
...and as for being single and not having a care in the world, you're right ! They do go together well ! I've had several attempts at trying to "tame" me, but it hasn't worked yet !
Sorry about hijacking the thread for a couple of posts.... ;-)
-Pan-
Exalted examples of virtue...
The phrases "Father of Our Country" and "George Washington Slept Here" were published as discreet 18th-century humor that's lost on today's society.
Ol' George wasn't childless. Martha maybe, but not George.
The phrases "Father of Our Country" and "George Washington Slept Here" were published as discreet 18th-century humor that's lost on today's society.
Well, GDH, you do have a long way to go.
If anybody's back should be up it should be mine and the generations that paid your freight. At 25, and Canadian, give yourself at least another 25-30 years to pay back the citizens who educated you and paid the medical bills and infrastructure that you have used. Who do you think paid for the bulk of your IT training?
At 25, I was wondering who my next date would be, and trying to do the best job I could in my profession. In that order!
Get your career together, save 10%/year, and quit thinking the world owes you a living.
If you don't want kids.......fine. ER 5 years earlier.
My oldest son is an IT professional, did his 5 years slogging, never complained, and started his family at 29.
I didn't have my own kids 'til I was 29 and up, so you don't have to lecture me about family values.
Nowhere did I say having children is obligatory, but if you do, you damn well better be there for them, and have an attitude that is transparent.
Where did I say that you have to work 50 hours a week at a desk 'til you drop?
I retired at 54.
If anybody's back should be up it should be mine and the generations that paid your freight. At 25, and Canadian, give yourself at least another 25-30 years to pay back the citizens who educated you and paid the medical bills and infrastructure that you have used. Who do you think paid for the bulk of your IT training?
At 25, I was wondering who my next date would be, and trying to do the best job I could in my profession. In that order!
Get your career together, save 10%/year, and quit thinking the world owes you a living.
If you don't want kids.......fine. ER 5 years earlier.
My oldest son is an IT professional, did his 5 years slogging, never complained, and started his family at 29.
I didn't have my own kids 'til I was 29 and up, so you don't have to lecture me about family values.
Nowhere did I say having children is obligatory, but if you do, you damn well better be there for them, and have an attitude that is transparent.
Where did I say that you have to work 50 hours a week at a desk 'til you drop?
I retired at 54.
As for paying back those who helped you...
What's the difference between A) Working 30 years in a relatively low-paying job, paying relatively little in taxes before retiring, and B) Working 10 years in a high-paying job, paying lots in taxes, and retiring early?
In both cases, the person probably paid a similar amount "back", yet Person A won't get any snarky comments about cheating society or copping out, while Person B will. What, is it something like "you have to suffer for the same amount of years I suffered, or else you're a copout?"
A and B get more unbalanced if you consider what a lot of people actually DO when they don't have to go to work every day. Like volunteer or get active in their community. Like actually interacting with people and making for a more positive social environment. Like not having to drive a long commute to work every day, clogging up the roads and polluting the air.
And don't even get me started on people who think that it's selfish or something to not have kids. Uhhh.... part of my income taxes goes to pay for the education system, and I'm very happy with that - well-educated and healthy kids are important for society as a whole -- even though I will never have any kids to personally take advantage of that. Hardly selfish!
What's the difference between A) Working 30 years in a relatively low-paying job, paying relatively little in taxes before retiring, and B) Working 10 years in a high-paying job, paying lots in taxes, and retiring early?
In both cases, the person probably paid a similar amount "back", yet Person A won't get any snarky comments about cheating society or copping out, while Person B will. What, is it something like "you have to suffer for the same amount of years I suffered, or else you're a copout?"
A and B get more unbalanced if you consider what a lot of people actually DO when they don't have to go to work every day. Like volunteer or get active in their community. Like actually interacting with people and making for a more positive social environment. Like not having to drive a long commute to work every day, clogging up the roads and polluting the air.
And don't even get me started on people who think that it's selfish or something to not have kids. Uhhh.... part of my income taxes goes to pay for the education system, and I'm very happy with that - well-educated and healthy kids are important for society as a whole -- even though I will never have any kids to personally take advantage of that. Hardly selfish!
bow-tie
Full time employment: Posting here.
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2004
- Messages
- 688
Exactly. I'd like some help understanding this, too. My wife and I are D I N Ks, and we get killed in taxes. I'd like to think we're doing our share. And the sooner we're done, the better.
I think that you are right and the nest egg is more than large enough to sustain a $25k annual withdrawal amount. Add to that the fact that in the following years, Ozarkjohn will likely work part-time from time to time, I would not be upset should I have this nest egg in my portfolio!
The $25k budget depends a lot upon where you live, but I think that if it is enough now, it is likely to be enough later during retirement. Some day, the kids will grow and leave home, which can be seen as "deflation" of expenses.
At this time, maybe Ozarkjohn will find his home too large for him and his wife and sell it for a smaller house or condo and invest the cash.
If I wish I was you Ozarkjohn, since I would retire today (I am 29)
Jack
The same people who will be more than payed back by the increased taxes I will generate as a higher paid employee over the course of my career.
Thinking the world owes me a living? Would I be working 60hrs a week, saving 30-40% of my income, managing my expenses, planning my investments, and working nights on my M.Sc. if I thought someone owed me a living?
I've been accused of being cheap, but never of being a slacker.
OTH, I re-read my original post and was surprised by the angst. I apologize if I offended anyone, but I stand by my point that productivity isn't measured in years.
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