RealID and spies

[SecondAttempt]

A couple was arrested today in Hawaii. They adopted the identities in the 1980s of infants who died in the 1960s. But what is so wild about it is that the husband had a current DoD security clearance and both had valid US passports issued fairly recently on their fake identities. Beyond the embarrassment for the State Department and Defense Security Service, this call into question the integrity of the whole RealID system.

The FBI says they were Russian spies although they have not yet been charged with espionage.

The husband served in the Coast Guard for 22 years ending in 2016 and was until yesterday a defense contractor with access to secret information at Hawaii military bases.

Just, wow! I'm actually thinking they are just wannabees but still, the system failed miserably.

 

[JoeWras]

Real ID isn't meant to smoke out strong, long established fakes. Since one of the documents considered "golden" to get real ID is a passport, then the passport faker is way ahead of the game for real ID.

Call into question why it is so easy to get fake passports.

 

[Chuckanut]

A couple was arrested today in Hawaii. They adopted the identities in the 1980s of infants who died in the 1960s. But what is so wild about it is that the husband had a current DoD security clearance and both had valid US passports issued fairly recently on their fake identities. Beyond the embarrassment for the State Department and Defense Security Service, this call into question the integrity of the whole RealID system.

The FBI says they were Russian spies although they have not yet been charged with espionage.

The husband served in the Coast Guard for 22 years ending in 2016 and was until yesterday a defense contractor with access to secret information at Hawaii military bases.

Just, wow! I'm actually thinking they are just wannabees but still, the system failed miserably.

Never let the perfect become the enemy of the good.

 

[Dash man]

His clearance may not have been that high. I doubt he had a polygraph.

 

[SecondAttempt]

His clearance may not have been that high. I doubt he had a polygraph.

The newspaper said "secret" which is of course "entry level" and could just be media shorthand for any security clearance. He was apparently an avionics technician in the Coast Guard but it is not clear what he was doing lately.

I have this suspicion that the fake IDs were about escaping bad credit and a foreclosure in the 80s and the spy stuff was just wannabe pretending. But it may be an interesting story to watch evolve.

I personally do not believe polygraphs work.

 

[athena53]

I've always wondered about that tactic since I read that it was used in "Day of the Jackal"- find a record of someone born around the time you were and of the same sex, who died early. You'd think it would set off alarm bells. A SSN is needed if anyone is going to claim you as a dependent on their taxes, You also need to supply it to an employer. So how would two 30-year olds explain why they were applying for the first time?

A few civil servants were asleep at the wheel.

 

[Ian S]

I've always wondered about that tactic since I read that it was used in "Day of the Jackal"- find a record of someone born around the time you were and of the same sex, who died early. You'd think it would set off alarm bells. A SSN is needed if anyone is going to claim you as a dependent on their taxes, You also need to supply it to an employer. So how would two 30-year olds explain why they were applying for the first time?

A few civil servants were asleep at the wheel.

I also immediately thought of "Day of the Jackal." Apparently that technique of changing your identity is known as "The Day of the Jackal fraud." The book was great and so was the 1973 movie. Edward Fox was perfect as the "Jackal." A really good thriller to read/watch with what was for me a satisfying ending plus twist.

 

[W2R]

The newspaper said "secret" which is of course "entry level"

Not wanting to be nit-picky, but what about "confidential"?

There are three levels of security clearance: confidential, secret, and top secret.

https://www.state.gov/security-clearances#:~:text=There are three levels of,, secret, and top secret.

 

[SecondAttempt]

I've always wondered about that tactic since I read that it was used in "Day of the Jackal"- find a record of someone born around the time you were and of the same sex, who died early. You'd think it would set off alarm bells. A SSN is needed if anyone is going to claim you as a dependent on their taxes, You also need to supply it to an employer. So how would two 30-year olds explain why they were applying for the first time?

A few civil servants were asleep at the wheel.

Yeah, there is plenty to digest here. But they assumed the identities in the 80s which we all know were different times. His assumed identity was 12 years younger so it boggles my mind why a Coast Guard recruiter would believe a 39 year old was 27!

 

[SecondAttempt]

Not wanting to be nit-picky, but what about "confidential"?


https://www.state.gov/security-clearances#:~:text=There are three levels of,, secret, and top secret.

Technically yes, but I have never heard of anyone apply for a confidential clearance.

My Secret clearance took about 3 weeks to get approved. As soon as it was, my FSO put in a request for to to be upgraded to Top Secret and "Interim Top Secret" was approved within about 3 hours with no additional paperwork or investigation. Full TS approval took a few months but I had access to Top Secrect information and meetings during that time.

There is no way to determine if that was the case here. If he had access to secure compartmentalized information I doubt we will ever hear about it, way too embarrasing for way too many players.

Edit: My experience is with Department of Defense while the link you posted is for State Department. I have no experience with State Department. They may very well follow the same rules and procedures, I just don't know. Hard to look into it because both use the DSS for the process, in one case the Defense Security Service and in the other the Diplomatic Security Service. And lest there be any concerns, everything I have posted is open source, publically available information regarding experiences and procedures.

 

[aja8888]

I had a Top Secret clearance when in the Air Force (nuclear weapons operations and access to the NATO War Plan stuff) . The day I got out of the military and went to work for a defense contractor, I had to go thru the entire clearance process again to get the Top Secret clearance reestablished. I remember I had to sit in the company in a special closed in area for three months when they were processing the clearance. Checked everything back to birth and almost everyone I knew along the way.

I doubt these folks who got caught had anything like a Top Secret clearance.

 

[Dash man]

I had a Top Secret clearance when in the Air Force (nuclear weapons operations and access to the NATO War Plan stuff) . The day I got out of the military and went to work for a defense contractor, I had to go thru the entire clearance process again to get the Top Secret clearance reestablished. I remember I had to sit in the company in a special closed in area for three months when they were processing the clearance. Checked everything back to birth and almost everyone I knew along the way.



I doubt these folks who got caught had anything like a Top Secret clearance.

I had pretty much the same experience. Air Force Top Secret clearance, upgrading it to SCI when I worked for a defense contractor. I think I was in “the Colony” for about three months too. A very boring three months!

 

[JoeWras]

My neighbor installed fire suppression. He was going to do so in a secure government facility. It would require some sort of clearance.

One day someone from the Feds comes by to interview me. They asked some pretty probing questions like did my neighbor:
- ever present himself drunk
- cheat on his wife
- how many kids does he have
- where did he grow up, ever tell you?
- how many times did he move before he came here
- and he was here how long?

And so on.

I mean, the background checking is pretty damn thorough. And I was just one neighbor. He interviewed others, along with who knows who else.

 

[ncbill]

I've always wondered about that tactic since I read that it was used in "Day of the Jackal"- find a record of someone born around the time you were and of the same sex, who died early. You'd think it would set off alarm bells. A SSN is needed if anyone is going to claim you as a dependent on their taxes, You also need to supply it to an employer. So how would two 30-year olds explain why they were applying for the first time?

A few civil servants were asleep at the wheel.

Yep, the technique they used hasn't worked in decades...states now match birth & death records, the novel probably helped speed that up.

And what tripped up this couple (and some previous) was applying for passports...they'd still be flying under the radar had they not done so.

 

[Koolau]

This whole thing reminds me of the series "The Americans" from around 2013. I couldn't stay with it but the first season was amazing. You believed it could happen. YMMV

 

[SecondAttempt]

Yep, the technique they used hasn't worked in decades...states now match birth & death records, the novel probably helped speed that up.

And what tripped up this couple (and some previous) was applying for passports...they'd still be flying under the radar had they not done so.

I don't think so. They got their passports in the 80s

 

[ncbill]

I don't think so. They got their passports in the 80s

Sorry, wasn't it renewing their passports?

I know other scammers had no trouble getting driver's licenses & even SS benefits, but once they applied for a passport they got caught.