Search Underway for Titanic Tourist Submarine

Like so many, I've been fascinated by the Titanic story since I saw "A Night to Remember" when I was about 9 years old. After Ballard discovered the wreck, I told friends I would give my eye teeth to go down in one of those "subs" to see it first hand. When I actually gave it some thought, I realized "Hell no" it's way too dangerous if something goes wrong. I got the impression, from that CBS News video, that this enterprise was just shy of being shady. Even if I was willing to fork over $250,000, it would not have been with this company. I hate to say this, but I think an implosion would be the the merciful result for these people; the otherwise slow death is what nightmares are made of.
 
Two miles underwater, a sub built with a lot of off the shelf gear, a Playstation game controller for maneuvering, "one button, like an elevator", "...An experimental submersible vessel that has not been approved or certified by any regulatory body ...", " ...a lot of things appear to be improvised...".

What could possibly go wrong??
 
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gromit said:
The link is to an article with a 7 minute video of a CBS Mornings interview with David Pogue. He rode in this submersible about a year ago and knows quite a bit about it.


https://www.cbsnews.com/news/what-h...ort-david-pogue-oceangate-possible-scenarios/
Click to expand...

Thanks for the link. I can't imagine being bolted into a piece of pipe (be it made out of CF, titanium or whatever) knowing you can't open it from the inside and descending into the ocean to 12'000 feet. The claustrophobic factor is just too great. Hoping for the best but understanding the odds aren't good at all.
 
Ian S said:
As a materials engineer with (ancient) experience in carbon fibers and their composite structures, I was intrigued if somewhat skeptical of this submersible design. Typically, carbon fiber composites are used for their tensile strength (for a given weight) rather than their compressive strength which is critical for submersibles. This article https://www.compositesworld.com/new...-carbon-fiber-submersible-in-4000-m-solo-dive gives some info on the design which also incorporates titanium. The vessel appears unique and incorporates some "firsts" e.g. "the largest known submersible carbon fiber and titanium pressure vessel." It sounds to me like the titanium is used for "endcaps" that attach to the filament wound carbon fiber cylinder. Then there are the titanium interface rings that join the titanium endcaps to the carbon fiber composite central cylinder. I recall that interfaces between such dissimilar materials were always tricky to design but I admit the technology has probably advanced a lot since I was involved decades ago.

Sadly, I'm inclined to believe that the vessel has been lost. In any event, I hope that whatever happened can be successfully analyzed to establish exactly what happened and give guidance on how to avoid such problems in the future.
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I'm wondering how they can attach the titanium end caps to the carbon fiber cylinder without welding it. There would be a lot of movement as the hull compresses while diving and expands while ascending. If there was a leak, I expect it would be at that junction of the hull and the end cap.

Edit to add -- The window edge would also be a potential weak point for the same reason.
 
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Sunset said:
There is a "toilet" at the front, right in front of the porthole, when you use it they pull a curtain across for privacy. And turn the music up loud to give noise privacy.

Pretty crude in normal circumstances. They normally advise to eat lightly before the dive.
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Sounds like heaven compared to a small aircraft.
 
frayne said:
Thanks for the link. I can't imagine being bolted into a piece of pipe (be it made out of CF, titanium or whatever) knowing you can't open it from the inside and descending into the ocean to 12'000 feet. The claustrophobic factor is just too great. Hoping for the best but understanding the odds aren't good at all.
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Now I understand the immediate air search.. they could be bobbing on the surface and will suffocate in 2 days if not found :facepalm:
 
Gumby said:
I'm wondering how they can attach the titanium end caps to the carbon fiber cylinder without welding it. There would be a lot of movement as the hull compresses while diving and expands while ascending. If there was a leak, I expect it would be at that junction of the hull and the end cap.
Click to expand...

Bingo, my thought exactly. Two dissimilar materials with different expansion and contraction properties are a likely point of failure. A small leak while descending when they lost communication at 8K would be like a high pressure cutting torch and a catastrophic failure would surely follow quickly.
 
marko said:
Two miles underwater, a sub built with a lot of off the shelf gear, a Playstation game controller for maneuvering, "one button, like an elevator", "...An experimental submersible vessel that has not been approved or certified by any regulatory body ...", " ...a lot of things appear to be improvised...".

What could possibly go wrong??
Click to expand...

The" Toilet " was a gallon jug, the lights were purchased from a "camper outlet store", I read in that article....
 
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Sunset said:
Yes...

And almost as good as Amtrak roomette with the built in toilet :LOL:
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Made me think of our one Amtrak trip ca 1985. For some reason, I was walking through an old car on our train. IIRC it may have been the baggage car. IF I recall correctly, the baggage may have been secured on racks and secured (from falling off) by straps or metal side rails. Anyway, IF I recall correctly, one could go through all the luggage one wanted to with no consequences assuming no one else happened to be coming through (or if that person cared or noticed what you were doing - as it could be YOUR luggage you were rummaging through for a forgotten bottle of hootch.)

BUT that's not what I came here to tell you about. I THINK it was in that car that there were "rest rooms" (men and women.) I was in the mood so stepped inside the men's room. It was quite large by train standards. Though antiquated, it had (IIRC) a big mirror, big sink, shelves to put your stuff on when you washed or shaved, etc. The toilet had a beautifully "carved" wooden seat. BUT I noticed there was no water tank, no flush handle, no chemical toilet apparatus. Just a toilet with a beautiful seat. When I looked closer, I could see that there was "earth" visible through the toilet. No longer would you need to worry about what you put down the toilet because it wasn't going into a tank. It was simply going between the rails.

I told a couple of folks about this and they apparently didn't believe me as they had to go look. Weeks later I mentioned all this to FIL who worked on the railroad as a switchman. He said "Oh, yeah. That was the way they did it for a 100 years."

Returning you now...
 
Gumby said:
I'm wondering how they can attach the titanium end caps to the carbon fiber cylinder without welding it. There would be a lot of movement as the hull compresses while diving and expands while ascending. If there was a leak, I expect it would be at that junction of the hull and the end cap.

Edit to add -- The window edge would also be a potential weak point for the same reason.
Click to expand...
Developing an appropriate method of joining composites to metals has been underway for decades. I can envision a combination of a mechanical/adhesive approaches being viable. The key would be to design the joint so that when exposed to high compressive stresses, the tendency would be for the joint to tighten and prevent the adhesive from failing. But what happens with many cycles of compression and release? Also, I imagine seawater in contact with an polymeric adhesive under ultra high pressures might produce unanticipated joint failure modes. We all remember the Challenger tragedy, itself an instance of joint failure.
 
Calico said:
Well, after watching that, I just pray that an implosion killed them immediately. It would be far preferable to a slow, painful, terrifying death at the bottom of the ocean.
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I accidentally deleted a reply that I intended to send. Just as well. Let's just say I have personal experience with this specific topic and we'll leave it at that.

I relayed a haunting story that I'll not retype. I decided it was catharsis and not appropriate for our membership. I'm having a tough week.

Anyway, if the CO2 scrubbers were functioning properly, the deaths would have been slow and terrifying, but mercifully, not painful. CO2 is what alerts the body it isn't getting enough "air" (O2, really.) Simple lack of O2 causes a bit of dizziness and then unconsciousness before death.
 
A good perspective on the issues and challenges that the crew might be facing, along with some footage of the Titan build. The author also reviews the construction and systems on board.



https://youtu.be/4dka29FSZac
 
Koolau said:
When I looked closer, I could see that there was "earth" visible through the toilet. No longer would you need to worry about what you put down the toilet because it wasn't going into a tank. It was simply going between the rails.

I told a couple of folks about this and they apparently didn't believe me as they had to go look. Weeks later I mentioned all this to FIL who worked on the railroad as a switchman. He said "Oh, yeah. That was the way they did it for a 100 years."

Returning you now...
Click to expand...

Yeah, the first time I took a train was in the 60's going to New York with a school group. I vividly remember seeing the rail road ties when I looked down the toilet.

We used to walk train tracks all the time before that, but never again.
 
Ian S said:
Developing an appropriate method of joining composites to metals has been underway for decades. I can envision a combination of a mechanical/adhesive approaches being viable. The key would be to design the joint so that when exposed to high compressive stresses, the tendency would be for the joint to tighten and prevent the adhesive from failing. But what happens with many cycles of compression and release? Also, I imagine seawater in contact with an polymeric adhesive under ultra high pressures might produce unanticipated joint failure modes. We all remember the Challenger tragedy, itself an instance of joint failure.
Click to expand...

I found this 6 year old article in "Composites World" that describes the construction of the Titan submersible. https://www.compositesworld.com/articles/composite-submersibles-under-pressure-in-deep-deep-waters

I also reviewed the video posted by Go-NoGo showing some of the construction. It appears to be simple end to end adhesive bonding between the carbon fiber cylinder and the titanium end cap. I would have appreciated a more extensive view of that joint's construction.
 
An interesting detail for the technically minded of the sub.
The propulsion and attitude thrusters seem mighty tiny.
Photo copied from The Sun.


stockton-rush-ceo-oceangate-taking-826160726.jpg
 
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I spent some time reading about the passengers. Very sad, and one is only 19 years old.
 
I read an article at ARS Technical. Apparently this submersible can not be opened from the inside so if it came to the surface they are still trapped inside of it. I find it hard to believe there is no pinger like jets have to locate it's position. So there is no way to know if it is 2' below the surface or 12,500'!

The remoteness of the site pretty much means there is no hope for rescue machines to reach them before the 96 hours of O2 is depleted. Rescue at the surface should be easy BUT you need to find them! Rescue at 12,500' is basically impossible given the time line even if there is something capable of attaching to it and bringing it to the surface.

A slow death freezing in total darkness as you gasp for air that is filling with CO2 is truly a nightmare like being buried alive in a coffin, a merciful death would be a catastrophic failure of the hull killing them instantly. I fear there is no good outcome for the crew and they may never be found.
 
Graybeard said:
I read an article at ARS Technical. Apparently this submersible can not be opened from the inside so if it came to the surface they are still trapped inside of it. I find it hard to believe there is no pinger like jets have to locate it's position. So there is no way to know if it is 2' below the surface or 12,500'!

The remoteness of the site pretty much means there is no hope for rescue machines to reach them before the 96 hours of O2 is depleted. Rescue at the surface should be easy BUT you need to find them! Rescue at 12,500' is basically impossible given the time line even if there is something capable of attaching to it and bringing it to the surface.

A slow death freezing in total darkness as you gasp for air that is filling with CO2 is truly a nightmare like being buried alive in a coffin, a merciful death would be a catastrophic failure of the hull killing them instantly. I fear there is no good outcome for the crew and they may never be found.
Click to expand...

Let us hope the CO2 scrubbers had excess capacity. That would insure a merciful death, though a long prelude with too much time to think. Yes, a catastrophic failure would be better - though it's too early to give up hope.
 
Gumby said:
It appears to be simple end to end adhesive bonding between the carbon fiber cylinder and the titanium end cap. I would have appreciated a more extensive view of that joint's construction.
Click to expand...

In other words the CF and titanium are glued together !
 
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