Sleep apnea and mouth guards

[explanade]

Does the $500 version have a money back guarantee?

 

[Mr._Graybeard]

Does the $500 version have a money back guarantee?

They have a refund policy but it's pretty conditional (and vague). You can see it here. The clunky version has a trial period as well, so I expect to be out about $20 for giving their product a preliminary look.

 

[explanade]

They have a refund policy but it's pretty conditional (and vague). You can see it here. The clunky version has a trial period as well, so I expect to be out about $20 for giving their product a preliminary look.

Wow those sleep apnea devices look like the idea is to keep your mouth open, keep your jaws spread apart?

That doesn't look comfortable.

 

[tfudtuckerpucker]

Quick comment- I just came back from my new sleep doctor, and he found that the previous doctor had not set the airsense 10 to "autosense". So it was set up incorrectly, and I have been using that incorrect setting for years. After my new doctor fixed that, my sleep has dramatically improved. So I downloaded a freeware app called OSCAR, so you can check your own readings, and not be dependent on a doctor. The readings show that, after the change, all my therapy efficiency measurements became dramatically better.

 

[explanade]

Do you get referred to sleep doctors or does your primary care guy give referrals?

 

[swakyaby]

Mine was a referral by my primary care doc. The conversation went something like this:

I think I need a sleep study.
Why? Because you snore?
No, because my spouse says I stop breathing.

 

[Mr._Graybeard]

Wow those sleep apnea devices look like the idea is to keep your mouth open, keep your jaws spread apart?

That doesn't look comfortable.

The intent is to shift the lower jaw forward. That keeps the tongue from blocking the airway but it also applies lateral pressure against the teeth. They tend to be adjustable so you can increase or decrease the offset.

Whether that's more or less comfortable than a CPAP is open to debate, IMO.

 

[SheitlQueen]

Can you please elaborate on this "chip"?


omni

He is probably referring to Inspire, an implanted device that is supposed to control apnea.

 

[SheitlQueen]

Can you even use CPAP if you almost always sleep on your side?

I use one and I am a side sleeper. It's actually better to sleep on your side because sleeping on your back generally makes sleep apnea worse.

 

[SheitlQueen]

My apnea is too severe to use a dental device so I have no direct experience. However, I belong to several FaceBook pages for Sleep Apnea, and for the most part people don't do well with oral devices. Complaints include jaw pain, poor control of the apnea, and movement of teeth. Might be worth a try though if you can find one cheap enough.

 

[PatrickA5]

I toss and turn all night. Back to side. Side to back to other side. I probably turn 20-30 times a night. Can someone use a CPAP that moves around a lot?

I'm not even sure I have sleep apnea. I don't snore that much and I'm rarely sleepy during the day. I've never in my entire life fallen asleep in a chair. But, I do have 19" neck. Used to be 21" before losing some weight. I just can't see myself wearing something hooked up to a hose. I'd probably strangle myself.

 

[troutnut1]

I toss and turn all night. Back to side. Side to back to other side. I probably turn 20-30 times a night. Can someone use a CPAP that moves around a lot?

I'm not even sure I have sleep apnea. I don't snore that much and I'm rarely sleepy during the day. I've never in my entire life fallen asleep in a chair. But, I do have 19" neck. Used to be 21" before losing some weight. I just can't see myself wearing something hooked up to a hose. I'd probably strangle myself.

Yes. I learned to handle the hose fairly quickly. I still toss and turn some, but not nearly as much as before I had cpap. The cycle previous to getting cpap was that apneas would wake me up. There is normally an adrenalin rush when your body realizes it can’t breathe. Then being awake because of the apnea, the tossing and turning starts, and often another trip to the bathroom too. My sleep test showed this happening 16 times and hour on my side, and 33 times an hour on my back. And I would have swore I didn’t have it either.

When I am not being woken up all night, because cpap is working for me, I rarely have trouble with tossing and turning, and usually don’t even have a bathroom trip. Managing the hose doesn’t seem to be a problem, though I recall it taking a while to get used to. I’ve been using it 8 years so I’m pretty good at it I think even while sleeping well.

The only reliable way to know is to get a quality sleep test. I was lucky my cardiologist suggested a sleep test or I would never have known. He asked my wife “does he snore?” She said yes. When he asked me “how do you sleep?” I said “Great”. And I thought I did! But I just didn’t know the difference. I was on medication for years thinking I was ADHD. Turns out I was just suffering from too little sleep although I was always in bed 8 hours or more. No more medication and no more ADHD. And the blood pressure that caused me to visit the cardiologist normalized with good sleep.

Every case is different. But if you suspect you might have it you probably do. The break point for a diagnosis is 5 or more events per hour. Less than that and most insurance won’t pay for machines and supplies. But knowing what I know now I would pay myself if I had to.Choking 5 times and hour is still 40 times per night! That’s no longer acceptable to me. I average 1.5 times per hour with cpap treatment.

 

[SheitlQueen]

I toss and turn all night. Back to side. Side to back to other side. I probably turn 20-30 times a night. Can someone use a CPAP that moves around a lot?

I'm not even sure I have sleep apnea. I don't snore that much and I'm rarely sleepy during the day. I've never in my entire life fallen asleep in a chair. But, I do have 19" neck. Used to be 21" before losing some weight. I just can't see myself wearing something hooked up to a hose. I'd probably strangle myself.

I flop around all night. I do best with a hose that comes out of the top of the headgear rather than out of the front. But I don't flop around as much as I used to, and I no longer have to get up several times during the night. I'm not exhausted any more. I stopped breathing 89 an hour and my oxygen levels were dropping as low as 51%. When I heard all that I was motivated to use the machine if I wanted to stay alive. I have no trouble adjusting to it at all. Been using it three years now and doing well with it. If you think you might have apnea, the only way to know is to have a sleep test.

 

[SheitlQueen]

I am a female, normal weight, side sleeper and I snore unbelievably loud. I used to use an oral appliance called Silent Night which I got from my dentist. I primarily used it when I was sharing a room for travel, etc. I think it was $400-$500 10 years ago. It worked pretty well but could be a bit uncomfortable. I’m actually in the market for a new one as this one degraded over the years and I will be sharing a room on an upcoming trip. I have no intention of spending thousands of dollars on one. I’m sure the expensive one your dentist recommended is better made than the Silent Night. I did eventually have a sleep study and have mild to moderate sleep apnea but even my doctor was surprised at how loud my snoring is. I have a cpap now and have tried several different masks and comfort accessories but I just can’t get comfortable with the cpap. Plus it’s unrealistic to travel with one. So I have given up on the cpap and just sleep in my own room now. I am hoping to get an over the counter one that will work but have no idea which ones are effective and tolerable.

I travel all the time with mine. Just got back from England and Ireland with it. It is surprisingly easy to travel with. The snoring is not my focus in using it, the focus is on preventing the oxygen level drops that cause health issues-stroke and heart disease among them. I was very motivated to use it.

 

[SheitlQueen]

Anecdotally, in my social circle, nearly al of the men and many of the women use a cpap. Additionally, I've not heard of a single person who's gone through a sleep study and was not subsequently diagnosed as needing a cpap. It's interesting that humans have so quickly evolved to require an apparatus to sleep safely. (I jest.)

I've known people who thought they had sleep apnea but a sleep test showed otherwise, so no machine for them. Most people are not referred for a sleep test unless there is a good indication they have apnea. So it makes sense that most people who have one end up diagnosed with sleep apnea.

 

[SheitlQueen]

Does anyone use only a small mask, like the nose mask linked earlier?

As opposed to a full mask that seems to be what most people think of when they think of CPAP?

OK read up on it, guess there are nasal pillows, nasal masks and full face masks.

Complications are dry mouth or nose bleeds depending on type of mask and type of breathers.

Do you have to have forced air or can some people get by with a device to mostly prevent obstruction of airways?

I use several type of masks, one similar to the above link which sits below the nose, one that covers the nose only, and a full face mask that sits below the nose but covers both the mouth and the nose. My favorite is the nose one, but it leaves a red mark on the bridge of the nose so after a few days I switch to the one that sits below the nose. During allergies or colds I switch to a full face mask so I can breathe through my nose. Nasal pillows were terrible for me, lasted one night. In concentrates the air too much and was like a hurrican in my nose. I've never had any issues. If people use a nasal mask but open their mouth their are chin straps to prevent that.

 

[pacergal]

DH tried them all, least problematic for him were the nose pillows. He has been without his CPAP for almost a year, feels he is sleeping better as he has less back pain with being able to sleep on his stomach.
He was recently fitted for his new dental mouthguard. We only had to pay $114, insurance picking up the rest. He should be picking it up soon, hoping it will work well. His last sleep study still showed quite a bit of apnea.

 

[Mr._Graybeard]

Last night was my first night using my new mouthguard apnea device. I actually got it a couple weeks ago, but I had a Zoom consultation yesterday with the doctor who designed it, Richard Hamburg of Smithtown, NY, to fit it to my mouth. It's made of thermoplastic, so it molded to my teeth after it softened in hot water.

One of the reasons I went with this product is that it offered a 30-day trial period for $19. If I'm satisfied after that time, I'll be charged the full fee of a bit over $100.

Dr. Hamburg is an ENT specialist, so he's well versed in the conditions that produce sleep apnea. We spoke about the prevalence of CPAP applications in treating the condition, and I came away with the impression that he knows what he's talking about. Of course, the fact that we're in agreement may have influenced that conclusion.

When the consultation was over, I was still somewhat skeptical that this device would work. At the minimum, I figured I'd endure a sleepless first night. But I slept quite well and awoke feeling refreshed. Night #1 was a definite success.

I will say that the device has some crude points. After all, I fitted it myself while sitting at the kitchen table. There are some spots that need some fine adjustment. The doctor says the device will shrink with use and urged me to use it regularly during the settling-in phase. So, I'll leave it as is for the time being.

Here's the SleepMD website: https://www.sleepmd.net/

 

[troutnut1]

Interesting website. Very carefully worded not to make any claims about actually treating sleep apnea.

One of the most difficult things about sleep apnea is that the person who has it usually doesn’t know. Because we are in deep sleep when it happens. That’s why sleep tests are used. My question is how will you know if it is working to prevent apneas? Cpap machines monitor breathing and generate detailed reports to prove whether they are working or not. Obviously this is not possible with a mouthpiece.

Sleep testing with the device would probably be the gold standard. A much weaker diagnostic tool might be a wearable pulse oximeter that you wear like a bracelet (Amazon) and it looks for the tell tale signs of oxygen desaturation caused by sleep apnea. Of course you would have to know what to look for in the reports generated. And weakest of all, but cheapest, is to ask whomever you are sleeping with. And results would then depend upon how well they sleep.

 

[Mr._Graybeard]

Interesting website. Very carefully worded not to make any claims about actually treating sleep apnea.

One of the most difficult things about sleep apnea is that the person who has it usually doesn’t know. Because we are in deep sleep when it happens. That’s why sleep tests are used. My question is how will you know if it is working to prevent apneas? Cpap machines monitor breathing and generate detailed reports to prove whether they are working or not. Obviously this is not possible with a mouthpiece.

Sleep testing with the device would probably be the gold standard. A much weaker diagnostic tool might be a wearable pulse oximeter that you wear like a bracelet (Amazon) and it looks for the tell tale signs of oxygen desaturation caused by sleep apnea. Of course you would have to know what to look for in the reports generated. And weakest of all, but cheapest, is to ask whomever you are sleeping with. And results would then depend upon how well they sleep.

I have a follow-up appointment with the sleep lab where I had my original testing. At that time I will request another home test. I should be accustomed to wearing the mouthguard by then.

 

[pacergal]

Glad yours was comfortable.
DH should be getting his mouthpiece from the dental specialist office soon. Once he has it, they will schedule another sleep study to see how effective it is for him.
We are hoping it works well. He has very high apnea spells but just can't tolerate the mask any more. He has tried several types over the years.

 

[Mr._Graybeard]

Glad yours was comfortable.
DH should be getting his mouthpiece from the dental specialist office soon. Once he has it, they will schedule another sleep study to see how effective it is for him.
We are hoping it works well. He has very high apnea spells but just can't tolerate the mask any more. He has tried several types over the years.

My mouthpiece is not perfect by any means -- it definitely needs some fine tuning. I found another company that will have you take impressions of your teeth at home with latex and use the impressions to create a device in their lab. The cost for that is about $500. Still a far cry less than the $3k my dentist quoted. If this one works adequately, I'll likely look for a more refined version at some point.

With all the dentists on the Mexican border, I wonder if any are affiliated with a sleep lab or ENT. I'm happy to pay a reasonable fee, and I like my dentist overall, but the exorbitant price he quoted for me for an apnea appliance makes me like him a lot less.

For those who wonder, "why not just get a CPAP?" They are not without risk either, aside from their general complexity and inconvenience. Google "CPAP lawsuit" and you'll get the drift.

I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but the idea that the medical establishment made a complicated air pump the SOP solution to a fairly simple problem makes me wonder.

 

[explanade]

I have a follow-up appointment with the sleep lab where I had my original testing. At that time I will request another home test. I should be accustomed to wearing the mouthguard by then.

Let us know how it works out.

 

[Finance Dave]

No apnea or CPAP for me, but dentist told me I needed a "nightguard" (mouthguard) because I grind my teeth. Been wearing it for about 6 years now. Slightly uncomfortable, but not a big deal.

 

[Mr._Graybeard]

Let us know how it works out.

I did a second at-home sleep study this month while using my oral device, and had a follow-up consultation with a nurse practitioner from the sleep clinic today.

The verdict: During my first study, my oxygen level dropped to 83% for a total of 40 minutes over the course of the night. With the oral device, I still have very mild apnea, but the second test showed my oxygen level was 88% at its lowest, and only for 0.3 of a minute. Ninety percent is what the clinic considers an acceptable oxygen level. I'm averaging 94%.

So the clinic pronounces my experiment with the $120 mouth device to be a success, and I don't require any additional treatment for sleep apnea.