Spreads so easily......

[Koolau]

As someone who has spent a lot of time in Mexico, this pandemic (and the response to it) really has me reconsidering retirement locations. I feel like my life is being threatened daily just by being *in* the U.S. This article describes some of the lengths other countries have gone to in order to limit the spread. I find them very refreshing and encouraging. I would gladly comply! Making notes for future reference...


https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/selina-wang-asia-covid-quarantine-intl-hnk/index.html

It always comes down to risk vs benefit, safety vs freedom so YMMV.

 

[harllee]

Just heard on the BBC news that Great Britain's Prime Minister Boris Johnson is in isolation after being exposed to Covid-19 a few days ago. Prime Minster Johnson had Covid-19 back in April and was in intensive care a few days but recovered. Evidently the concern is that he can get Covid-19 a second time. Does anyone know the current thinking among the medical experts about the ability to get Covid-19 more than once? Is there any immunity? If so how long does it last?

 

[Poopycat]

As someone who has spent a lot of time in Mexico, this pandemic (and the response to it) really has me reconsidering retirement locations. I feel like my life is being threatened daily just by being *in* the U.S. This article describes some of the lengths other countries have gone to in order to limit the spread. I find them very refreshing and encouraging. I would gladly comply! Making notes for future reference...


https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/selina-wang-asia-covid-quarantine-intl-hnk/index.html

Your post led me to do a search on the coronavirus situation in Mexico. What I read wasn’t exactly comforting: the country is approaching 100,000 deaths. Mexico is about 130 million people so their death rate due to the virus appears to be higher than ours, although their total number of cases is much lower (close to 2 million).

But I agree with you, it’s discouraging to see how the US is faring against the virus compared to other industrialized countries.

 

[dixonge]

Your post led me to do a search on the coronavirus situation in Mexico. What I read wasn’t exactly comforting: the country is approaching 100,000 deaths. Mexico is about 130 million people so their death rate due to the virus appears to be higher than ours, although their total number of cases is much lower (close to 2 million).

But I agree with you, it’s discouraging to see how the US is faring against the virus compared to other industrialized countries.

I only mentioned Mexico as an indication that we're comfy living outside the U.S. I don't consider their COVID response to be any better than the U.S. - neck and neck on deaths/million.

 

[Alan]

Just heard on the BBC news that Great Britain's Prime Minister Boris Johnson is in isolation after being exposed to Covid-19 a few days ago. Prime Minster Johnson had Covid-19 back in April and was in intensive care a few days but recovered. Evidently the concern is that he can get Covid-19 a second time. Does anyone know the current thinking among the medical experts about the ability to get Covid-19 more than once? Is there any immunity? If so how long does it last?

The disease is less than a year old so we don’t really know how often reinfection happens. UK guidelines are that if you are advised to isolate then you should do so regardless of if you have had it before.

 

[sengsational]

According to most recent info I can find here in NC about 300,000 people have downloaded the app (I wish it were more) and there have been about 500 Covid notifications from the app. No way to tell if those 500 people would have been otherwise notified they had been exposed. From what I read the main focus has been getting college students to sign up for the app. I hope that colleges make it mandatory for students to have the app.

If a business or school wanted to do so, they could make the app mandatory for entrance to various venues. I don't think that would be illegal. It might ruffle feathers, but whenever I see a sign of strong measures to curb transmission, I'm more likely to take part. Where would you more be comfortable, a doctor's office that just was operating normally, or one where, before you entered, they did a contactless temperature and asked you about symptoms? State legislatures could probably pass a rule for government buildings that have metal detectors.... You need to show your phone and if you can't pull-up the app, you need to check your phone at the door. Not barring entrance, but who wants to not have their phone!

I am not so certain even with legislation that there will be compliance.

My BIL got a "ticket" and a fine for breaking a tree branch in a remote area of a national park. Yes, there's a law that he broke. The branch was hanging in a non-designated trail that lead down to the water's edge where his boat was parked. Everyone had been ducking under it until my BIL snapped it off. The crime was witnessed by a park official, and a ticket written. If they can do that, they can certainly ticket you for witnessing a mask hanging from one ear.

 

[Calico]

If a business or school wanted to do so, they could make the app mandatory for entrance to various venues. I don't think that would be illegal. It might ruffle feathers, but whenever I see a sign of strong measures to curb transmission, I'm more likely to take part. Where would you more be comfortable, a doctor's office that just was operating normally, or one where, before you entered, they did a contactless temperature and asked you about symptoms? State legislatures could probably pass a rule for government buildings that have metal detectors.... You need to show your phone and if you can't pull-up the app, you need to check your phone at the door. Not barring entrance, but who wants to not have their phone!

My BIL got a "ticket" and a fine for breaking a tree branch in a remote area of a national park. Yes, there's a law that he broke. The branch was hanging in a non-designated trail that lead down to the water's edge where his boat was parked. Everyone had been ducking under it until my BIL snapped it off. The crime was witnessed by a park official, and a ticket written. If they can do that, they can certainly ticket you for witnessing a mask hanging from one ear.

There are those among us who do not have cell phones. Having a cell phone is not actually a requirement in this country. My aunt and uncle are old school, and they do not have cell phones. They should not be restricted from being able to enter buildings for that reason.

 

[Mr._Graybeard]

If a business or school wanted to do so, they could make the app mandatory for entrance to various venues. I don't think that would be illegal. It might ruffle feathers, but whenever I see a sign of strong measures to curb transmission, I'm more likely to take part. Where would you more be comfortable, a doctor's office that just was operating normally, or one where, before you entered, they did a contactless temperature and asked you about symptoms? State legislatures could probably pass a rule for government buildings that have metal detectors.... You need to show your phone and if you can't pull-up the app, you need to check your phone at the door. Not barring entrance, but who wants to not have their phone!

Getting businesses on board seems to move the ball forward a great deal with regard to compliance with safe practices generally. I see that Costco recently announced that "medical conditions" would no longer be an excuse for going without a mask or face shield. You want to shop, don a mask. End of story.

A funny aside: my local veterinarian's office has posted a sign at the door saying that all who enter must wear a mask or submit to having their temperature taken -- and they have only rectal thermometers!

 

[harllee]

There are those among us who do not have cell phones. Having a cell phone is not actually a requirement in this country. My aunt and uncle are old school, and they do not have cell phones. They should not be restricted from being able to enter buildings for that reason.

I am hearing that many colleges in my state are going to require students to download the Covid app on their phones before the start of next semester. I would be surprised if there are many college kids that don't have some sort of smart phone. If they don't I guess they can buy a cheap prepaid smart phone at Walmart or somewhere.

 

[Calico]

<snip>A funny aside: my local veterinarian's office has posted a sign at the door saying that all who enter must wear a mask or submit to having their temperature taken -- and they have only rectal thermometers!<snip>

Best pandemic sign so far!!

 

[Gumby]

According to most recent info I can find here in NC about 300,000 people have downloaded the app (I wish it were more) and there have been about 500 Covid notifications from the app. No way to tell if those 500 people would have been otherwise notified they had been exposed. From what I read the main focus has been getting college students to sign up for the app. I hope that colleges make it mandatory for students to have the app.

Here in Connecticut, the app was announced last Thursday, four days ago. Since then, 600k people - about 17% of the state's population - have downloaded it. People here have generally been very good at working together to fight the virus. Masking is almost universal and has been since the spring.

 

[sengsational]

There are those among us who do not have cell phones. Having a cell phone is not actually a requirement in this country. My aunt and uncle are old school, and they do not have cell phones. They should not be restricted from being able to enter buildings for that reason.

The idea was that if you had a phone, you'd have to show the app, or check your phone at the door. If you left your phone in the car or didn't have a phone, you'd be granted entrance. But they could do something similar to what they do at the TSA screening at airports (they don't REQUIRE you to get irradiated by their x-ray scanning machine, but if you decide to get the pat-down, they make you sit and wait for it, then make a spectacle of you while they do the pat down). If I were king, I wouldn't require the app for admission to buildings; I'm just saying what *could* be done, if there were a certain will on the part of those that make such decisions.

 

[Alan]

There are those among us who do not have cell phones. Having a cell phone is not actually a requirement in this country. My aunt and uncle are old school, and they do not have cell phones. They should not be restricted from being able to enter buildings for that reason.

A phone and app is not required here, just to complete a form or logbook to give contact details before entering certain premises, whether that be work, a gym, cafe etc. Having a phone and app just makes things easier.

 

[anethum]

Here is an article about passengers who became infected on a flight from Dubai to New Zealand, an 18 hour flight on a Boeing 777. NZ has a strict 14-day quarantine in place for arriving travelers. Arriving passengers are monitored for 14 days and are re-tested. 7 cases were linked to the flight which had only 86 passengers. At least 4 of the cases have been linked to one passenger through genome sequencing. The infectious passenger had a negative PCR test within 48 hours of the flight, and was asymptomatic until 71 hours after the flight. This event contradicts a US Dept. of Defense study which said that someone would have to sit next to an infectious passenger for at least 54 hours on a flight in order to become infected.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/travel/2020/11/20/new-zealand-flight-covid/?itid=hp_mr_5

 

[retire-early]

Here is an article about passengers who became infected on a flight from Dubai to New Zealand, an 18 hour flight on a Boeing 777. NZ has a strict 14-day quarantine in place for arriving travelers. Arriving passengers are monitored for 14 days and are re-tested. 7 cases were linked to the flight which had only 86 passengers. At least 4 of the cases have been linked to one passenger through genome sequencing. The infectious passenger had a negative PCR test within 48 hours of the flight, and was asymptomatic until 71 hours after the flight. This event contradicts a US Dept. of Defense study which said that someone would have to sit next to an infectious passenger for at least 54 hours on a flight in order to become infected.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/travel/2020/11/20/new-zealand-flight-covid/?itid=hp_mr_5

Taiwan is requiring starting Dec 1 a negative test 3 days before flight ( https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/4057167 ), but it appears that while a negative test is better than not, their 14-day quarantine is still absolutely necessary.

 

[EastWest Gal]

Mask-wearing, 102 (the second semester)

In my few outings, I've noticed that people are being much more vigilant about correct mask-wearing choices and technique. I'm starting to get the feeling of "we're all in this together" from friends and strangers alike. I live in mix of suburb/rural not far from Harrisburg, and the change is striking. And for that I'm thankful. Most of the time the two and three-year olds are the best mask wearers. It's like wearing a diaper to them. It's what you do and what your parents expect.

I'm wondering if others have observed less mask-wearing problems as well.

 

[Koolau]

In my few outings, I've noticed that people are being much more vigilant about correct mask-wearing choices and technique. I'm starting to get the feeling of "we're all in this together" from friends and strangers alike. I live in mix of suburb/rural not far from Harrisburg, and the change is striking. And for that I'm thankful. Most of the time the two and three-year olds are the best mask wearers. It's like wearing a diaper to them. It's what you do and what your parents expect.

I'm wondering if others have observed less mask-wearing problems as well.

I would have thought so - especially with the uptick in cases. Sadly, personal observation is that folks are somewhat blasé about how they wear their masks and what they consider a mask. I see lots of under-the-nose wearers. I don't feel comfortable mentioning this "infraction" to folks, but I wouldn't probably ride the elevator with them. YMMV

 

[harllee]

Most of the people in my circle of friends (we are all late 60s or early 70s) are now saying we have to do everything we can to stay safe for the next 3-6 months until we get the vaccination. We see the light at the end of the tunnel and we want to be alive and healthy when that vaccine is available. None of my friends are getting together with large groups for Thanksgiving. We are all wearing masks and distancing. No one is eating inside a restaurant or going to fitness centers.

 

[garyt]

Just heard on the BBC news that Great Britain's Prime Minister Boris Johnson is in isolation after being exposed to Covid-19 a few days ago. Prime Minster Johnson had Covid-19 back in April and was in intensive care a few days but recovered. Evidently the concern is that he can get Covid-19 a second time. Does anyone know the current thinking among the medical experts about the ability to get Covid-19 more than once? Is there any immunity? If so how long does it last?

Everything I've read says the antibodies decrease rapidly and may only give protection for up to 3 months, if that. I did see a new article that said immunity lasts much longer, maybe years. As someone who has had covid I sure hope this is true but I still live my life as a covid virgin. I'll post the link later if I can find it

 

[timo2]

The PBS Newshour ran a short bit every Friday this past year called 'Honoring Lives Lost in the Pandemic'. Today (Thanksgiving) they ran all of them together. It's an emotional watch, but worth it, IMO.

"On this Thanksgiving Day, tens of thousands of our friends and neighbors have one less person at the table because of COVID-19. It is this pandemic, and the devastation it has wrought in this country, that makes this holiday so different for all of us. Judy Woodruff takes an extended look back at just some of the more than 260,000 Americans lost so far to COVID-19."

https://www.pbs.org/video/on-thanksgiving-day-remembering-those-lost-due-to-covid-19-1606425531/

 

[audreyh1]

CDC was thinking the multiplier of reported tests to actual infections is 8x at end of September. Using that same multiplier today would suggest that almost 1/3 of the US population has caught the virus. Of course it’s yet another model. Looks like the article extrapolates from an end of September model/report.

Government Model Suggests U.S. COVID-19 Cases Could Be Approaching 100 Million

The actual number of coronavirus infections in the U.S. reached nearly 53 million at the end of September and could be approaching 100 million now, according to a model developed by government researchers.

The model, created by scientists at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, calculated that the true number of infections is about 8 times the reported number, which includes only the cases confirmed by a laboratory test.

Preliminary estimates using the model found that by the end of September, 52.9 million people had been infected, while the number of laboratory-confirmed infections was just 6.9 million, the team reported in the Nov. 25 issue of the journal Clinical Infectious Diseases.

https://www.npr.org/sections/corona...vid-19-cases-could-be-approaching-100-million

 

[JoeWras]

Anyone hear about the NBA camp entry results? Spreads easily indeed! And this thing is sly, with many asymptomatic cases.

Just goes to show how much is out there right now.

The NBA and the National Basketball Players Association jointly announced Wednesday night that there were 48 positive tests for COVID-19 out of the 546 players tested from Nov. 24 to Nov. 30.
This was the initial round of tests for players as they returned to their teams' markets ahead of the start of individual workouts Tuesday. The regular season is scheduled to start Dec. 22.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/30438683/nba-says-48-positive-covid-19-initial-re-entry-testing

 

[braumeister]

How to manage your virus risk

Nice "how to manage your risk" piece in the NY Times today, based on a survey of 700 epidemiologists and interviews with experts.
The relevant bits, extracted from the article:

1. There is one behavior you should try to eliminate, without exception: Spending time in a confined space (outside your household) where anyone is unmasked.

Don’t eat indoors at a restaurant or friend’s house. Don’t have close, unmasked conversations anywhere, even outdoors. If you must fly, try to not to eat or drink on the plane. If you’re going to work, don’t have lunch in the same room as colleagues. Group lunches have led to outbreaks at hospitals and elsewhere.

2. This next set of behaviors is best to minimize if you can’t avoid it: Spending extended time in indoor spaces, even with universal masking.

Masks aren’t perfect. If you can work out at home rather than at a gym — or do your job or attend religious services remotely — you’re reducing your risk.

3. Now the better news: Several activities are less risky than some people fear.

You don’t need to wear a mask when you go for a walk or a jog. Donald, who’s famously careful, bikes without a mask. “I consider keeping six feet distant outdoors more important than wearing a mask,” he told me. “If I had a birthday candle in my hand and you’re too far away to blow it out, I can’t inhale whatever you exhale.”

You can also feel OK about doing many errands. About 90 percent of the epidemiologists in our survey have recently visited a grocery store, a pharmacy or another store. Just wear a mask, stay distant from others and wash your hands afterward.

The big picture: I find it helpful to think about the notion of a personal risk budget. I don’t spend any of my risk budget on supermarket shopping, because grocery delivery works well for my family. But I do take occasional unmasked, distant walks with one or two friends. They help keep me sane as we head into a long, very hard winter.

 

[Montecfo]

Nice "how to manage your risk" piece in the NY Times today, based on a survey of 700 epidemiologists and interviews with experts.
The relevant bits, extracted from the article:

The part that to me is so important is the idea that distancing is more important than masks. Stands to reason.

 

[anethum]

The part that to me is so important is the idea that distancing is more important than masks. Stands to reason.

You left out the all-important part that it was said specifically in regards to being outdoors.

You don’t need to wear a mask when you go for a walk or a jog. Donald, who’s famously careful, bikes without a mask. “I consider keeping six feet distant outdoors more important than wearing a mask,” he told me. “If I had a birthday candle in my hand and you’re too far away to blow it out, I can’t inhale whatever you exhale.”