SS Benefits Claim Error - trying to help a friend

[Amethyst]

I'm trying to help a friend who is having issues with Social Security. Unfortunately, I don't qualify for SS so I have no experience to draw upon - but you all have tons, so I'm turning to you.

In October 2022, he applied for benefits, and started receiving them in January 2023. He had calculated everything down to the dollar, using SSA's earning record, and factoring in the 2023 8.7% COLA.

When his first deposit arrived, it contained only a 7.7% increase, about $50 less than he'd been expecting.

Assuming SSA would "catch up" with him in a month or so, he waited until March to go to the local SS office. (This was a walk-in, not an appointment, so he believes no records were kept). All told, he explained the matter to 4 people. He found them strangely unable/unwilling to help - a lot of hemming and hawing and "what do you think about this, Joe," and left with his issue unresolved. Nobody took ownership and promised to get a final answer. I was perturbed to hear of such careless customer "service," since it's these people's job to ensure everyone gets the benefits they are entitled to under law.

Today he informed me that he called SSA's benefits claims # and was told that because he'd waited more than 2 months to complain after first noticing a discrepancy, he was basically out of luck. They did direct him to benefits.application@ssa.gov where he filed a request for review, but he has little hope of resolution.

I just find it hard to believe that he is out of luck. As for his own calculations, he is much better at arithmetic than I am, so I feel his numbers were very likely correct - especially since the underpayment turned out to be exactly 1 per cent shy of what he'd been expecting.

What do you all think? Is he being mistreated? Is he out of luck?

Thanks,

Amethyst

 

[zl55lz]

I'm trying to help a friend who is having issues with Social Security. Unfortunately, I don't qualify for SS so I have no experience to draw upon - but you all have tons, so I'm turning to you.

In October 2022, he applied for benefits, and started receiving them in January 2023. He had calculated everything down to the dollar, using SSA's earning record, and factoring in the 2023 8.7% COLA.

When his first deposit arrived, it contained only a 7.7% increase, about $50 less than he'd been expecting.

Assuming SSA would "catch up" with him in a month or so, he waited until March to go to the local SS office. (This was a walk-in, not an appointment, so he believes no records were kept). All told, he explained the matter to 4 people. He found them strangely unable/unwilling to help - a lot of hemming and hawing and "what do you think about this, Joe," and left with his issue unresolved. Nobody took ownership and promised to get a final answer. I was perturbed to hear of such careless customer "service," since it's these people's job to ensure everyone gets the benefits they are entitled to under law.

Today he informed me that he called SSA's benefits claims # and was told that because he'd waited more than 2 months to complain after first noticing a discrepancy, he was basically out of luck. They did direct him to benefits.application@ssa.gov where he filed a request for review, but he has little hope of resolution.

I just find it hard to believe that he is out of luck. As for his own calculations, he is much better at arithmetic than I am, so I feel his numbers were very likely correct - especially since the underpayment turned out to be exactly 1 per cent shy of what he'd been expecting.

What do you all think? Is he being mistreated? Is he out of luck?

Thanks,

Amethyst

If it is like it used to be, they should have a record of the date and subject of when he was there and what the topic was so this might protect his appeal rights. They used to (and hopefully still do) have to enter this info for people who came in. They should have a record of any appeal he requested online as well.

I personally would go in and ask to speak with a supervisor--they tend to have a lot of experience, and if this fails I personally would contact my local congressperson and lay out my issue with dates in writing. My experience is that these requests get excellent attention.

 

[levindb]

You have not said how old this friend is (Medicare, FRA, etc) or whether they are still working. With the MILLIONS of folks getting benefits, we rarely see complaints like this. It may be that your friend may have calculated things improperly...not taking into account the first IRMAA bracket or earning limits. It is not a person that calculates the 8.7% COLA, so I doubt that a person made the 1% error. They should have received a letter from SSA advising them of their benefit and what the deposit will be. They may be able to see that letter online at ssa.gov. Since it was their FIRST deposit, they may not have the correct base number before the 8.7% was added...and I am making all of this up based on the information provided.

 

[Amethyst]

Sorry, I forgot to say that this is a retired friend. That $50 a month matters to him. He was 67 when he applied for regular SS, has Medicare, and he is not currently working. He pays the regular Medicare premium, and his income, even while working, has never been more than $70K.

Thanks for the info about the letter. It sounds like the one I get from OPM every time they adjust my pension.

You have not said how old this friend is (Medicare, FRA, etc) or whether they are still working. With the MILLIONS of folks getting benefits, we rarely see complaints like this. It may be that your friend may have calculated things improperly...not taking into account the first IRMAA bracket or earning limits. It is not a person that calculates the 8.7% COLA, so I doubt that a person made the 1% error. They should have received a letter from SSA advising them of their benefit and what the deposit will be. They may be able to see that letter online at ssa.gov. Since it was their FIRST deposit, they may not have the correct base number before the 8.7% was added...and I am making all of this up based on the information provided.

 

[levindb]

Sorry for getting into the weeds here, but in 2023 the max SSA benefit at FRA is $3627 and the max at age 70 is $4555. If the $50 represents 1% of their SSA payment (difference between 7.7% and 8.7%), then that would suggest they were expecting a $5000 monthly payment.

If they never earned more than $70K/year, then they would not be receiving the max numbers above...so, something is not right. They may be rounding to $50, but that is still a stretch based on the $70K earning number. If their earnings were never more than $70K, then that $50 would likely be important to them.

I am guessing their calculations may be off rather than SSA making a mistake...or maybe they are not explaining the whole situation properly to you.

 

[Amethyst]

Interesting, thank you. Yes, the $50 is rounding.

I've told him about the forum and he's interested in everyone's insights. He corrected two misconceptions I had - he actually got his first payment in December, when he wasn't expecting it till January. He then multiplied the December payment by 1.087 to get the 2023 number. What he got, instead, is 1.072 times the December payment.

Even if his methodology is off, it disturbs me that no one at the SSA office or on the SSA phone line will give him a bottom line for closure - Sir, this is the exact calculation, based on your earnings record and including the COLA. Instead he has been getting a runaround.

 

[COcheesehead]

If I am getting $5000 a month, I can squeeze $50 more a month out of that just based on where I put it, even short term. That to me sounds like almost a game. Maybe that’s where the future efforts should go, especially someone who is adept at math.

 

[CardsFan]

Just a thought:

Since the friend was past FRA when applying, could the difference be due to the way delayed credits are calculated? I recall some posts here saying they are only applied once a year.

Maybe someone who knows more about delayed credits can comment.

 

[MissMolly]

I'm trying to help a friend who is having issues with Social Security. Unfortunately, I don't qualify for SS so I have no experience to draw upon - but you all have tons, so I'm turning to you.



In October 2022, he applied for benefits, and started receiving them in January 2023. He had calculated everything down to the dollar, using SSA's earning record, and factoring in the 2023 8.7% COLA.



When his first deposit arrived, it contained only a 7.7% increase, about $50 less than he'd been expecting.



Assuming SSA would "catch up" with him in a month or so, he waited until March to go to the local SS office. (This was a walk-in, not an appointment, so he believes no records were kept). All told, he explained the matter to 4 people. He found them strangely unable/unwilling to help - a lot of hemming and hawing and "what do you think about this, Joe," and left with his issue unresolved. Nobody took ownership and promised to get a final answer. I was perturbed to hear of such careless customer "service," since it's these people's job to ensure everyone gets the benefits they are entitled to under law.



Today he informed me that he called SSA's benefits claims # and was told that because he'd waited more than 2 months to complain after first noticing a discrepancy, he was basically out of luck. They did direct him to benefits.application@ssa.gov where he filed a request for review, but he has little hope of resolution.



I just find it hard to believe that he is out of luck. As for his own calculations, he is much better at arithmetic than I am, so I feel his numbers were very likely correct - especially since the underpayment turned out to be exactly 1 per cent shy of what he'd been expecting.



What do you all think? Is he being mistreated? Is he out of luck?



Thanks,



Amethyst

It’s my understanding that COLAs are applied to the PIA amount, not the amount currently being received. The PIA amount changes each year with the COLAs and is cumulative.

 

[jebmke]

When I filed, the number in the determination letter was wrong. I filed an appeal before the first payment was expected and they fixed it before the first payment. Mine was off by the entire 2023 inflation factor.

I've cautioned a number of people to examine the determination letter and confirm that the calculations are correct. They don't often get it wrong but they do get it wrong.

 

[Al18]

SS always pays for the past month. The payment he received in December was for November.

Your friend deserves a thorough explanation on the benefit amount. He should keep pressing SS until he does.

 

[SecondCor521]

Not an SS expert by any means, but I read this forum.

It sounds to me like when he went in October, somehow the SS person processing his application assumed he wanted to start receiving benefits immediately. Reasonable assumption to make, because that's what most people do (I think). So SS started them in November, which is why he got his first check in December (as noted above, SS payments are one month in arrears).

From your OP, it sounds like he wanted to actually start his benefits in January, and was just a super prepared and organized person (which are in the distinct minority). In this case, his first check should have been in February.

The two month difference in starting month would probably account for the $50 difference, especially since it sounds like his SS benefit might be a more modest amount.

...

A secondary possibility is that there are some arcane rounding rules that SS applies when they do the calculations at various steps in the process. He probably was doing exact math, so the rounding that they do which is less well known, probably accounts for a few dollars worth of error. Probably not the full $50, but some.

...

If he did unwittingly start his benefits in November and actually wanted them to start in January, he does have a one time option to repay all of the benefits received and then start over with a later claiming date. However, since one can only start benefits 6 months retroactively and we're now in August, that means the earliest he might be able to restart his benefits would be February or March. If he's living on the edge, this might be a challenge for him cash-flow wise.

 

[RetMD21]

...

In October 2022, he applied for benefits, and started receiving them in January 2023. He had calculated everything down to the dollar, using SSA's earning record, and factoring in the 2023 8.7% COLA.

When his first deposit arrived, it contained only a 7.7% increase, about $50 less than he'd been expecting. .....

What do you all think? Is he being mistreated? Is he out of luck?

Thanks,

Amethyst

He knows that the deposit is net of the Medicare payment, right?

 

[Amethyst]

Yes, he knew that.

He knows that the deposit is net of the Medicare payment, right?

 

[RetMD21]

Yes, he knew that.

Why is he expecting the 8.7% adjustment in the net?

 

[levindb]

In the 3rd week of November each year, SSA sends out a letter explaining "Social Security Benefits Increase and Medicare Premiums." These are available for each person to review at ssa.gov.

I would recommend the friend look closely at that document which details how SSA calculated the 2023 benefit, the cost of Medicare, and the resulting payment they will receive. If they applied to have federal taxes withheld, that would also need to be accounted for.

There should also be a message at ssa.gov explaining the initial payment that was received in December 2022.

Any errors in those letters could then be discussed at the local SSA office.

 

[Texas Proud]

Was his first check what he was expecting?

 

[Amethyst]

I'm not sure I understand, but he did take the Medicare premium into account.

Why is he expecting the 8.7% adjustment in the net?

 

[RetMD21]

In the 3rd week of November each year, SSA sends out a letter explaining "Social Security Benefits Increase and Medicare Premiums." These are available for each person to review at ssa.gov.

Also my wife, and maybe everyone, got an "Award letter" before the first check with the planned gross monthly payment with an invitation to respond with corrections or comments. I think that might have been a good time to seek clarification rather than waiting for a deposit.

Maybe OP's friend is right and SSA is wrong but it's impossible to tell.