Statin Wars - British Style!

[Teacher Terry]

Definitely not acceptable to me.

 

[PatrickA5]

I just have to say, as a trained clinical pharmacist specializing in cardiovascular disease who’s spent 30 years doing statin trials, reading statin trials, interpreting statin trials, teaching students, pharmacists and physicians about statin trials, and committed to high quality care in patients, most of this thread has opinions that are absolute crap.

Statins are ridiculously effective in patients with established CV disease. They are also quite useful in patients who are at risk and qualify for primary prevention. Their safety is very good- literally hundreds of millions of patient years experience.

The people disseminating their ridiculous, half informed opinions on this issue here are putting people at risk...and are probably both unaware of that and don’t care.

Shameful.

Fortunately, I think most people are smart enough not to take what they read on the internet as the "truth".

I have known CV disease. I've had zero side effects from taking my $4 per month statin. I've discussed my statin many times with my PCP and Cardiologist. The both insist on me keeping taking the drug (since I don't have any side effects). If I'm the one (out of however many) that the drug prevents dying from a heart attack, I think it's worth it.

 

[gerntz]

But there was a cost. Each person paid $100/month for the drug or $6000 over 5 years.
How much do these numbers need to change for the risk to be acceptable?

My statin costs me $0.57 every 3 months.

 

[gerntz]

I just have to say, as a trained clinical pharmacist specializing in cardiovascular disease who’s spent 30 years doing statin trials, reading statin trials, interpreting statin trials, teaching students, pharmacists and physicians about statin trials, and committed to high quality care in patients, most of this thread has opinions that are absolute crap.

Statins are ridiculously effective in patients with established CV disease. They are also quite useful in patients who are at risk and qualify for primary prevention. Their safety is very good- literally hundreds of millions of patient years experience.

The people disseminating their ridiculous, half informed opinions on this issue here are putting people at risk...and are probably both unaware of that and don’t care.

Shameful.

Thank you. My LDL was around 170 & HDL around 38 b4 I started taking the statin 18 years ago. LDL is now around 100 & HDL close to 50.

 

[Doribe]

Note conclusion 22.


https://peterattiamd.com/the-straight-dope-on-cholesterol-part-ix/

Thanks for this information. I take my statins and appreciate your information. With statins, my total is slightly above 200. With out statins it goes to just under 300. My HDLs are always high, contributing to the high total number.

I have never had muscle problems and the diet and exercise route is not enough.

 

[flintnational]

I just have to say, as a trained clinical pharmacist specializing in cardiovascular disease who’s spent 30 years doing statin trials, reading statin trials, interpreting statin trials, teaching students, pharmacists and physicians about statin trials, and committed to high quality care in patients, most of this thread has opinions that are absolute crap.

Statins are ridiculously effective in patients with established CV disease. They are also quite useful in patients who are at risk and qualify for primary prevention. Their safety is very good- literally hundreds of millions of patient years experience.

The people disseminating their ridiculous, half informed opinions on this issue here are putting people at risk...and are probably both unaware of that and don’t care.

Shameful.

You appear to be in a unique position to provide useful information on this topic. However, in your post you did not provide any data or references. You simply chose to belittle and criticize those that do not agree with you. I suggest there is a better approach. We would appreciate your thoughtful participation in this thread.

 

[msieweke]

My statin costs me $0.57 every 3 months.

When Lipitor was on patent it cost $165 per month. I didn't realize the prices had come down so far. I guess that's why they want to put it in the water supply and give them away free at McDonald's.

 

[Oz investor]

i have been on Crestor ( one or the statins ) since November 2016 , initially prescribed by the registrar in charge of the MRI unit ( very quickly after the MRI results were developed )

i am currently being monitored ( yearly ) from type II diabetes , peripheral circulation problems some muscle wastage but am still alive with 'chronic heart failure ' AFTER medical intervention .

i guess it boils down to which risks you take

in my case a decline in heart health will result in a triple bypass , a heart transplant ( or death ) and the statins are creating their own serious problems . despite keeping me alive for the 15 weeks leading up to the intervention procedure .

i suggest an INFORMED choice each option has it's risks ( which do you take ?? )

 

[gerntz]

When Lipitor was on patent it cost $165 per month. I didn't realize the prices had come down so far. I guess that's why they want to put it in the water supply and give them away free at McDonald's.

I was on simvastatin b4 Lip existed & still am.

 

[sengsational]

... effective.....

I don't recall any post in this thread saying there were zero cohorts where the drug class was effective. Based on your in-depth background, maybe you can confirm that some non-trivial amount of benefit in the cohorts that showed a level of effectiveness came from reducing inflammation (as opposed to altering levels of lipoprotein). What is that amount? Where is the study comparing a proven effective statin to a baby aspirin?


As to the shamefulness, I'd say we have quite the pot calling the kettle names situation here. We have posts above that reference the fact that studies that don't show what the manufacturer wanted never see the light of day. We have campaigns designed to lead busy doctors into over prescribing unless they take the extra time to get into the details. Maybe if the industry wasn't so obviously disingenuous, threads like this would not exist.

 

[gerntz]

I have a hard time believing statin benefits area hoax given there are 40M USA users & nearly as many attorneys looking for a prize. Not disputing negative side effects for some.

 

[Teacher Terry]

The problem is once you develop a side effect there may be no going back such as diabetes. No clue if memory loss would come back once you stopped. That’s huge.

 

[Offgrid Organic Farmer]

I do not have CardioVascular Disease. I do not have high Blood Pressure. I do not have diabetes. My 'issue' was high cholesterol.

After a decade on statins, I developed a painful side effect. I am very grateful that the pain subsided after I stopped taking the statins.

I have not heard anything yet, to convince me that I should risk going back onto statins.

 

[Koolau]

I haven't run the numbers on this thread, but it appears there are more con than pro for statins. If this were a financial issue instead of a medical one (say NOT having at least 50% in stocks) there would be lots of pooh, poohing of those thinking less than 50% can work (for those in that category.) Honestly, I trust y'all a LOT more on the financial end of the spectrum than on the medical front (and I AM one of the less than 50% stock crowd).

When it comes to medical, I read with interest everyone's options, but I PAY my cardiologist (a lot.) He put me on a heavy dose of statin and the numbers are astounding compared to the old me NOT on a statin. HE BELIEVES that, for my situation, the risks are worth the benefit(s) and I have found no data to dispute that.

I am convinced that almost ALL classes of pharma compounds are over prescribed (look where we are with relation to antibiotics over prescribing for 40 years and the issues that has caused.) Heh, heh, was standing in line at the pharmacy the other day. Guy behind me was picking up an antibiotic for his kid because he CALLED one of those phone doctors. His kid has a cold and a temp of ALMOST 100! If you want to raise heck about something, I think this might be more appropriate than statins - but I digress.

Baby-and-bathwater come to mind when things like statins are discussed (especially here.) I MAKE NO CASE for anyone else to use or not use statins. BUT I've found a doc I trust and am willing to trust his judgement about statin use in MY case. For everyone else, YMMV. By the way, if I have sounded in any way offensive, it was unintentional. We all gotta do what we think is right for us.

 

[joeea]

My friend lost her husband to kidney failure caused by statins.

How did they determine that the kidney failure was caused by statins?

 

[joeea]

I haven't run the numbers on this thread, but it appears there are more con than pro for statins.

Lots of opinions, little actual knowledge.

 

[joeea]

The people disseminating their ridiculous, half informed opinions on this issue here are putting people at risk...and are probably both unaware of that and don’t care.

Shameful.

Agreed.

 

[Teacher Terry]

First of all no one is telling people not to take statins. People are reporting what they are doing personally. Hopefully, no one would make a personal decision based on a forum.

 

[flintnational]

In addition to the MD's and researchers mentioned in the OP linked article, there are a number of MD's and medical professionals that believe the benefits of statins are over sold and the side effects minimized. Hence the post title, "Statin Wars".

Like many others on this forum, I have read numerous statin studies. No doctor interpretation needed. The data is conflicting at best. And, the data for all cause mortality vs. cv mortality, men vs. women, young vs. old and primary vs. secondary prevention yields varying results. Then when you factor in that the vast majority of studies are funded by the companies selling statins, many of us rightly doubt the pitch of statins as a wonder drug for everyone with high LDL.

That being said, I have seen no evidence to suggest that anyone is recommending an individual stop their medication. That is a decision for you and your MD. But, those opposing statins for themselves are not being illogical or irresponsible in expressing their views. They are simply reviewing the data (and reading expert opinions on the other side of the issue) and coming to a different conclusion for their situation.

 

[Koolau]

First of all no one is telling people not to take statins. People are reporting what they are doing personally. Hopefully, no one would make a personal decision based on a forum.

Probably not on THIS forum. We're pretty darned independent (how else did we FIRE?) But measles is making a significant comeback because folks read forums instead of trusting their doctors about immunization. (SWAG? There are folks here who believe thimerosal or some factor in immunization shots cause autism.) But folks here will do what THEY think is right, not what the rest of us think. At least, I'll believe it if you will. Remember, YMMV.

 

[Oz investor]

LOL

measles is coming back , because my previous two vaccinations didn't stop me from catching measles ( twice ) the vaccinations may have lessened the worst effects , but they certainly make me immune from it . ( possibly measles is actually evolving/mutating )

the statins prescribed to me , were used to reduced/weaken a blockage to a coronary artery .. the bad bit is the moved cholesterol is tending to block minor blood vessels in my arms and legs .

medicine is an evolving science , this year's wonder cures may easily be next century's horror stories.

 

[Chuckanut]

One reason people don’t trust the medical ‘experts’ is all the bad diet advice we were given in the 70s and 80s. Tow that come to mind are ‘limit eggs’ and ‘substitute margarine with trans-fat for butter’. Then there are the healthy for the heart sugar bomb cereals.

 

[zedd]

I just have to say, as a trained clinical pharmacist specializing in cardiovascular disease who’s spent 30 years doing statin trials, reading statin trials, interpreting statin trials, teaching students, pharmacists and physicians about statin trials, and committed to high quality care in patients, most of this thread has opinions that are absolute crap.

Statins are ridiculously effective in patients with established CV disease. They are also quite useful in patients who are at risk and qualify for primary prevention. Their safety is very good- literally hundreds of millions of patient years experience.

The people disseminating their ridiculous, half informed opinions on this issue here are putting people at risk...and are probably both unaware of that and don’t care.

Shameful.

https://youtu.be/2lAY-rRRa4o

 

[JoeWras]

Now I'm wondering if some of the financial advice I've taken from this forum is BS or crap.

 

[joeea]

Now I'm wondering if some of the financial advice I've taken from this forum is BS or crap.

Depends on which advice you have taken.

Hopefully nobody expects all the financial advice here to be non-BS and non-crap all the time. Otherwise they'll be very disappointed.