Sugar and diet

[chassis]

+1

A food scale is mandatory for accurate measurement of calories or ingredients. Guess what fellow Americans our measurement system suck. Throw out those inaccurate cups and get with grams.

Fully agree. Measuring addresses the education part of this topic. Once educated, work needs to be done on turning denial (if/when present) into acceptance of the proper quantity of food to be consumed.

 

[Rickt]

I lost 40 Lbs in 2020 over 4 months by changing over to Plant Based Whole Foods (PBWF) diet, no processed foods and no dairy products. PBWF diet along with intermittent fasting (15 hours) and exercise (walking, weight training and yoga). I have keep the weight off and feel great and very energetic. The problem is none of my old clothes fit me anymore and I had to buy new clothes in smaller size.

The documentary "Forks over knives" (https://www.forksoverknives.com/the-film/) was an eye opener that made me change to PBWF diet.

Please take the time to watch this documentary. Yes, it is over an hour long but may help some of you. It is a simple concept, but not easy to follow.....if you follow this protocol, it will help you improve your overall health and may even reverse certain health conditions viz: diabetes, hypertension and heart disease.

Best wishes!

 

[6miths]

Interesting discussion as always. Clearly something bad has happened to a large portion of the population over the past 50 years. Prior to this time the vast majority of the population had little difficulty maintaining a healthy weight without paying any attention to the caloric content of what they ate and drank. Fifty years ago, Type 2 DM was relatively rare and Non-Alcoholic Fatty Liver Disease was pretty much unheard of.

So what has changed? Calorie intake has increased over that time frame, almost all in the form of rapidly absorbed carbohydrates, either simple sugars (glucose, fructose and sucrose) or highly refined starches (glucose). HFCS came on the scene in the late 70s and made matters worse. Fructose is likely particularly problematic as it looks to be very effective at inducing fatty liver, insulin resistance, increased triglycerides and decreased HDL - so metabolic syndrome. Insulin resistance progresses to Type 2 DM in many. The CICO and thermodynamics thinking is undoubtedly true but far too simplistic in many ways and has distracted attention from the main problem which is too many highly processed, nutrient poor, calorie dense, simple sugar laden, non-satiating foods ingested continuously during waking hours.

Population based interventions are needed and the saying, 'An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure' has never been more apropos. Largely because there seems to be no 'cure' for most. We have to prevent children from becoming overweight and obese and this has to be done in a healthy way.

 

[Irishgirlyc58]

This is the important point.

The machinery is real. I left out "electro". The body is an electrochemical machine that abides by the laws of thermodynamics.

The emotional part of the picture needs also to be dealt with. An earlier post in this thread that described a person who perceived to have 3oz. of food on the plate when in fact 8oz. was there is a hypothetical, and credible and likely every day example. This example points out a person that is potentially in denial (emotional work to be done) or unaware (educational work to be done).

Is self control of value in any facet of life? Money? Food? Human relationships?

One needs to govern oneself in all of these areas.

I have no idea what an electrochemical machine is but I’m assuming it is an actual living breathing creature?
Are you taking what works with actual inanimate machine and apply how that operates to animate beings?

As far as the emotional or social aspect what exactly is your area of expertise?

 

[Irishgirlyc58]

Smug oversimplifications are unhelpful.

Spot on @braumeister.

 

[athena53]

As far as the emotional or social aspect what exactly is your area of expertise?

I'm not the person to whom you addressed the question, but I spent a lot of time on MyFitnessPal boards a few years ago. So many of the people there were stress eaters or ate for other reasons besides being hungry. I'll admit I want to eat when I'm bored, but celery and carrots don't put weight on. Some people binge, especially at buffets. I watched a friend who's teddy-bear shaped go through almost an entire bag of Pecan Sandies on a 6-hour road trip. (I cheerfully ordered him not to offer me any- I didn't want to start.) Others come from cultures where you show your love by feeding people. How can you turn down those cinnamon rolls when "I made them just for you"? My grandparents had been through the Great Depression and were Clean Plate Club members. I can still remember, "Why don't you eat up that little bit left on the serving plate- can't let it go to waste". And yes, they were both overweight.

One thing I decided with both my son and my grandchildren is that when they're done eating, they're done eating. Sometimes what they ate didn't seem enough to get them through the day but I never pushed more food on them. (And some days, of course, they ate everything in sight.) They're all lean and healthy.

So yes, there are a LOT of emotional aspects to be addressed for many people.

 

[DayDreaming]

Many who claim to be gaining weight on 1200Kcal/day are grossly underestimating their intake. Are they using a food scale to weigh everything they eat? Or are they just eyeballing the food and saying, "Yep, 3oz of x food," when in reality they have 8oz on their plate.

A while ago, I went a few months carefully weighing and recording everything I ate and drank, to the nearest gram. Even if it was just a couple of almonds, I weighed it. The most surprising thing to me was seeing how much I really ate between meals - that was often more calories than I ate at my 3 main meals!

 

[athena53]

A while ago, I went a few months carefully weighing and recording everything I ate and drank, to the nearest gram. Even if it was just a couple of almonds, I weighed it. The most surprising thing to me was seeing how much I really ate between meals - that was often more calories than I ate at my 3 main meals!

Portion control is really important- studies show that restaurant portions and even plate sizes have increased over the past few decades. When I was a kid and we had a T-Bone steak it would be cut up and we'd each get a piece (along with multiple side dishes). I was surprised when I found that it was normal for someone to eat an entire steak. I'm still not sure I could do it. I gained 20 lbs. after marrying DH- I was working FT and he was retired and he made a lot of down-home stuff like pot roast, mashed potatoes, dumplings, etc. and I just ate what I wanted. I finally developed a form of intermittent fasting and dropped the weight and it's stayed off. Now I eat mostly mass quantities of non-starchy vegetables- I can eat as much as I want of those!

 

[chassis]

Portion control is really important- studies show that restaurant portions and even plate sizes have increased over the past few decades. When I was a kid and we had a T-Bone steak it would be cut up and we'd each get a piece (along with multiple side dishes). I was surprised when I found that it was normal for someone to eat an entire steak. I'm still not sure I could do it. I gained 20 lbs. after marrying DH- I was working FT and he was retired and he made a lot of down-home stuff like pot roast, mashed potatoes, dumplings, etc. and I just ate what I wanted. I finally developed a form of intermittent fasting and dropped the weight and it's stayed off. Now I eat mostly mass quantities of non-starchy vegetables- I can eat as much as I want of those!

Portion control is near the top of the of important factors for weight management.

Great post!

 

[chassis]

A while ago, I went a few months carefully weighing and recording everything I ate and drank, to the nearest gram. Even if it was just a couple of almonds, I weighed it. The most surprising thing to me was seeing how much I really ate between meals - that was often more calories than I ate at my 3 main meals!

Perfect, disciplining the eating habit by educating and informing oneself in “calories in” helps the electrochemical machinery do its work without excessive, or any, weight gain.

 

[chassis]

I have no idea what an electrochemical machine is but I’m assuming it is an actual living breathing creature?
Are you taking what works with actual inanimate machine and apply how that operates to animate beings?

As far as the emotional or social aspect what exactly is your area of expertise?

Electrochemical machines are animate beings. Like all of the humans posting on this thread.

 

[Bamaman]

I'm a type II diabetic, and I chose to go on an insulin pump (instead of pills) to minimize spikes in my blood sugars. My blood sugar when I wake up is about 110 and consistent until I eat meals. My doctor wants me to run from 90 to 170 points.

I've also gone to a CGM (glucose monitor). I can watch my blood sugars throughout the day with no finger sticks, and it tells me how my body reacts eating certain foods. If I get very low or very high on blood sugars, the GCM beeps and tells me. It's the lows that are really dangerous.

I can eat sweets in moderation when my blood sugar is on the low end of the scale. When I get high, I make adjustments to my insulin monitor and I'm back down in the normal range within a 1/2 hour or so. Thankfully I don't have too many lows--like so many problem diabetics.

Weight control is so important to those with blood sugar problems. Unfortunately, diabetics have more problems than normal losing weight. The biggest hurdle is avoiding late night snacks before bed. I had a light meal last night and didn't eat anything before bed, and my CGM was beeping me at 79 points--and I got up and ate a light snack.

The whole idea is to avoid the peaks and valleys--and staying consistent. And with proper care, a type II diabetic can live another 2 or more years on average. The goal is to avoid the dreaded hemodialysis which so many diabetics end up on. And the average lifespan is only about 4 years after being in end stage renal failure. Being tied to a machine 3 hours a day, 3 days a week is hell on earth.

 

[RetiredHappy]

My husband has type 2 diabetes for about 25 years, and he was diagnosed before we met. One of the best perks I get is that I get to use his blood sugar monitor and I check my blood sugar frequently to see how I react to carbs/sugar. He is very disciplined and keeps his carb intake to no more than 50 grams a day and anything more than that his A1C is unhappy. He golfs and works out everyday. I am genetically dispositioned to be diabetic but so far, keeping my carbs intake to under 120g for golf days and 80-100g for non-exercise days has worked for me.

 

[Turbo29]

A while ago, I went a few months carefully weighing and recording everything I ate and drank, to the nearest gram. Even if it was just a couple of almonds, I weighed it. The most surprising thing to me was seeing how much I really ate between meals - that was often more calories than I ate at my 3 main meals!

It's amazing how few almonds it takes to make a full 28g serving complete with its 170Kcal.


If I didn't weigh them, I'd grab a handful, which would be about 2 servings... and I would call it one serving.

 

[Octogirl]

+1 Thanks I'm enjoying the podcast with PETER ATTIA and Rob Lustig

 

[Jerry1]

A lady I used to work with was very health conscious. I offered her some coco cover almonds one day and she looked at the bag and agreed the ingredients were okay (pretty much just almonds and coco and I think a little stevia). And then she proceeded to count out five almonds and said thank you. Meanwhile, I probably mindlessly ate half the bag.

 

[Marita40]

What has really changed in our society is constant snacking, with food available everywhere. I went back to 3 meals/day, no snacks, and that's worked well for me to maintain weight and stop thinking about food all day long. Small breakfast, big lunch, small dinner.

 

[MarieIG]

I basically gave up sugar and white flour as a teen and didn't go back. (Mom was into health food.) That worked well for me as a young person.

As a not-so-young person, it's not enough - for me.

I had worked a very high stress job from which I just retired. In preparation for retirement, I decided I wanted to improve my health. I (eventually) settled on a (mostly) keto, time restricted eating plan with some fasting days thrown in. The bulk of the diet is non-starchy vegetables including leafy greens and cruciferous vegetables. The majority of fat comes from extra virgin olive oil; and majority of protein comes from wild caught fish; with the second source coming from eggs from pasture raised organic chickens. I eat organic chicken maybe once a week, and red meat (I trying to eat grass fed) maybe once every other week.

I have listed to Jason Fung, Eric Berg, Sten Eckberg, and some Peter Attia interviews. I had heard of Dr. Lustig before this, but had not heard the podcasts linked by Mark before.

 

[MarieIG]

But those aren’t the only principles our bodies operate on.
I don’t quite agree with the analogy that our bodies are machines either.
We have the ability for critical thinking and emotions.
Saying that it’s calories in/calories out doesn’t take into consideration the social and sometimes emotional reactions humans- and probably other animals I’m assuming- have with food. We can’t separate our minds from our bodies (yet) and therefore should look at the entire body.

To say it is “as simple as that” is like me telling an alcoholic struggling to just not drink. It’s that simple. For me it is because I rarely if ever drink. But other people have a different attachment to alcohol than I do. But I wouldn’t be taking that into account.

I am enjoying the discussion on metabolism and how what type of foods we eat makes a difference.

I will say if I only ate 1200 calories a day I would absolutely lose weight- when I gnawed off my arm from hunger!
I have to have approximately 1500-1600/day. I’m sure that will decrease with age but that’s how I am now.

I believe it is Dr. Jason Fung who has cited to studies which show that if you reduce your calories; you initially loose weight but your metabolism eventually slows (dramatically) as your body tries to preserve its setpoint.

 

[athena53]

What has really changed in our society is constant snacking, with food available everywhere. I went back to 3 meals/day, no snacks, and that's worked well for me to maintain weight and stop thinking about food all day long. Small breakfast, big lunch, small dinner.

I agree- look at the proliferation of cup holders in cars (as well as kids' car seats) and products to fill them. Not just drinks, but cup-size containers of cookies, pretzels, soup, etc. I do snack a LOT but it's mostly fresh veggies to keep the calorie count down. I've been keeping hard candy in the car but after the latest Attia podcast I've decided to swear off if it. It's not a lot of calories but it's pure sugar with a few chemicals for color and flavor.

 

[Chuckanut]

Avoid any highly processed foods, especially with additives like high fructose corn syrup.

I believe it is Dr. Lustig who says that it's not what you eat, it's what they do to what you eat that's the problem. Pulverized grains, sugar added to otherwise healthy foods, trans-fats that replaced natural butter (not so much these days), fruit squished and filtered into nothing but juice with no more fiber, nuts with added sugary coatings, etc. etc. etc......

I noticed that I can increase my bread consumption by 100% and not gain weight IF I only eat my own homemade bread. Store bought bread is not so good for me. I think it's because I grind the wheat berries in my blender and thus the flour is not as pulverized as typical white and whole grain flours bought in stores. Then I slather on butter, marscapone or dip it in olive oil. The fat further slows down the otherwise fast digestion. That minimizes insulin spikes. So I am told.

 

[Chuckanut]

It's amazing how few almonds it takes to make a full 28g serving complete with its 170Kcal.


If I didn't weigh them, I'd grab a handful, which would be about 2 servings... and I would call it one serving.

IIRC, about 20% of the calories in an almond never get digested by the human body. That 20% feeds the gut bacteria, then out they go.

 

[Highbeam]

Folks, it's about calories. Sugar and fat are calorie dense. You can't each much of these until your limit (yes there is a limit) is reached.

Eat less, exercise more.

Blood conditions, thyroid conditions, and other conditions do not change the laws of thermodynamics. Calories in must equal calories out for weight to remain constant. To lose weight, thermodynamic principles must be adhered to, which means calories in (eating) must be fewer than calories out (exercising).

If you feel like you exercise "too much", or that you "can't exercise any more than I am", then you are eating too much. In this situation eating must be reduced.

I used to think the same way mostly because I'm an engineer and maybe you are too. I now know that I was wrong.

What really convinced me was knowing that sawdust has calories. You can eat 2000 calories of sawdust every day, entirely indigestible cellulose, and die of starvation.

Another thing that convinced me that there is more to the story than just calories is that you can eat 500 calories of doughnut and be hungry in an hour, or 500 calories of eggs and be stuffed for a large part of the day.

Hormones (satiety) are at least as important as actual calorie count.

 

[Chuckanut]

An engineer who thinks that it's simply CICO, probably thinks he can get more light from a light bulb by hooking up a flashlight bulb to a 220V outlet. After all, it's just energy in and energy out. Right?

 

[ElizabethT]

I used to think the same way mostly because I'm an engineer and maybe you are too. I now know that I was wrong.

What really convinced me was knowing that sawdust has calories. You can eat 2000 calories of sawdust every day, entirely indigestible cellulose, and die of starvation.

Another thing that convinced me that there is more to the story than just calories is that you can eat 500 calories of doughnut and be hungry in an hour, or 500 calories of eggs and be stuffed for a large part of the day.

Hormones (satiety) are at least as important as actual calorie count.

As someone prone to easily elevated, and subsequently crashing, blood sugar levels, I can attest to the effect said doughnut has on blood sugar levels, which can then lead to subsequent overeating. The crashing of blood sugars after a spike is very disconcerting for many of us, leading to the shakes in my case, and more food is often then reached for to counter it and 'feel better.' The same intake via protein (i.e., eggs) or healthy fats (i.e., avocados or EVOO) has no such effect on my system. I feel comfortable, and cease thinking about food.

My 'perfect' breakfast, developed over time based on how my body responded, is either one cup of cottage cheese + 10 almonds, or two eggs with sliced avocado, tomato, and some EVOO. Both are about 300 calories, full of good protein and fats, and will carry me for hours.

A 300 calorie doughnut, by comparison, will send my blood sugars up and down so rapidly, I'll likely be back staring at the fridge or pantry within 30 minutes trying to figure out what to eat next in order to feel better. (Which is not the same thing as hunger.)