Westernskies
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
- Joined
- May 5, 2008
- Messages
- 3,864
Strictly speaking of odds, the odds I am going to have this issue seems to be about the same as my chances of being hit by lightning.
...or a runaway Toyota.
Strictly speaking of odds, the odds I am going to have this issue seems to be about the same as my chances of being hit by lightning.
to be about the same as my chances of being hit by lightning.
No one could ever fault a person for getting rid of that.
Yeah, this is during the time when Detroit earned its reputation -- from about the late 1970s into the '90s. They may have improved a lot since then, but old perceptions die hard...That particular 1992 Plymouth Acclaim was a piece of JUNK - - I never wanted it in the first place and my ex gave my car to our daughter before our divorce, and bought that for me. Maybe he saw divorce on the horizon before I did.
Steve Wozniak (the less famous Apple cofounder) was on the news last night stating that he has a Prius that has had sudden acceleration issues , surging up to 100 miles an hour, when the cruise control is on. So he believes the Prius may have a software, not gas pedal issue. He said he tried to contact Toyota about the problem but was never able to get through to anyone.
I have to wonder how many of these new reports are figments of the imagination and chalked up to the power of suggestion. It's as if some people think every Toyota ever built is suddenly a death trap.
I have to wonder how many of these new reports are figments of the imagination and chalked up to the power of suggestion. It's as if some people think every Toyota ever built is suddenly a death trap.
Oh, whatever. Do you really think there is *no* placebo effect out there at all?Keep rationalizing...
Oh, whatever. Do you really think there is *no* placebo effect out there at all?
Oh, whatever. Do you really think there is *no* placebo effect out there at all?
No argument there. Perception is a very hard thing to shake.Placebo effect aside.
What gets to me is the free-pass that Toyota gets compared to every other company.
If Detroit had this problem - you can bet the new York Times would be whipping up the class-action lawyers to take on this menacing conspiracy to public safety.
I think it will be Honda & Nissan that will profit the most by the Toyota recalls not GM.
The quality on Fords is quite good on many models, and these models probably deserve to benefit, too. But, perceptions are long-lived things.
I just rented a Nissan Versa for a day. I can't speak for the long-term quality, but the car had squeaks and lacked amenities (a map light, a center console, etc) that I thought were included on even bare-bones cars today. I'd put Nissan a cut below Honda and Toyota. Maybe this started since Renault bought a controlling interest in Nissan. With all the retro cars (Mustang, Camaro, Challenger) maybe it's time Nissan did a cool re-do of the 240Z. That could grab some interest.
I have to wonder how many of these new reports are figments of the imagination and chalked up to the power of suggestion. It's as if some people think every Toyota ever built is suddenly a death trap.
I'm sure that Rickover is whirling rapidly in his grave ("Up on the governor, ready for electrical loading") shouting "I told you so, you pissants!"After spending so many years dealing with complex software and hardware systems, it would not surprise me in the least if there were multiple problems that manifest as the same general sort of symptoms. With something as complex as the 'drive by wire' systems now appearing in vehicles, we have lots of interesting opportunities for unexpected interactions between already complex subsystems.
6 MPH. And yes, I can't help but check the calibration by glancing at the speedometer when I feel the crossover from regenerative to mechanical. It's very noticeable, especially when you're approaching the vehicle stopped in front of you and planning to ease it in to within six inches or so. (Whoops.) But after driving it for a day or two you adjust, and we have no proficiency issues switching between our 2006 Prius and our 1997 Altima.The 'strong hybrid' cars like the Prius and Civic Hybrid use regenerative braking, running the electric motors as generators to recover energy and recharge the battery when slowing, and then switch to friction braking (brake pads) at a very low speed.
The drivers could be misdirecting their blame, and it's not just the 2010 model year. When the driver is braking under normal foot pressure, the car defaults to regenerative. If, anywhere during the braking process, the driver slams on the brakes, then the braking computer automatically switches over from regenerative to mechanical. There's the usual slight hiccup (from the brakes, not the driver) whenever the system switches over, although it's a lot more noticeable at slower speeds.Here's a fun interaction. If the vehicle is using regenerative braking, and the ABS or stability system sees a wheel stop turning, as there aren't any friction brakes to pulse, the ABS system can't compensate. Depending on design, a new interaction between the regenerative braking and ABS system may be needed. For example, the vehicle may have to switch from regenerative braking to the friction brake system, so as to give the ABS system the opportunity to avoid wheel lockup and skidding. The switchover at a higher than normal speed may cause a momentary loss of braking force (call it 0.1 to 0.2 seconds) while regeneration is cut and the hydraulics are pressurized. The driver will feel that momentary drop in deceleration force as a 'surge'.
That above interaction has been reported for the 2010 Prius by drivers on icy streets, and on potholes and speed bumps while braking when stability control is activated. I haven't heard of damages beyond soiled underwear yet...
No different than Microsoft's crack team of millions of [-]eager early adopters[/-] beta testers.What's going on under the hood is rapidly becoming very complex, and I'm not entirely sure the test methodologies of auto manufacturers, traditionally a very mechanical discipline, is up to handling this much software and electronics complexity in addition to the older electromechanical systems.
I just rented a Nissan Versa for a day. I can't speak for the long-term quality, but the car had squeaks and lacked amenities (a map light, a center console, etc) that I thought were included on even bare-bones cars today. I'd put Nissan a cut below Honda and Toyota. Maybe this started since Renault bought a controlling interest in Nissan. With all the retro cars (Mustang, Camaro, Challenger) maybe it's time Nissan did a cool re-do of the 240Z. That could grab some interest.
I'm sure that Rickover is whirling rapidly in his grave ("Up on the governor, ready for electrical loading") shouting "I told you so, you pissants!"
When the driver applies the brake pedal normally but the ABS system senses a wheel losing traction, a yellow "loss of traction" icon lights up on the dash. This light comes on so seldom (I've only seen it twice in nearly two years) that I can easily understand a driver thinking "OMG, I've lost the brakes!!" and slamming their foot down. And by golly, the next thing that they feel is a slight hiccup. But this time it's no longer a "slight hiccup", it's a "deadly surge of acceleration".
Ironically both times this light came on when driving on a bumpy road. (Not many stretches of icy road here on Oahu.) When the wheels leave the ground while regenerative braking is in progress, the car correctly decides that traction has been lost and lights up the icon. I think that causes the driver's reaction.
No different than Microsoft's crack team of millions of [-]eager early adopters[/-] beta testers.
You'd think that Toyota would have learned from the operational experiences of NASA, Boeing, and Disneyland...
As TTAC’s Steve Lang recently discussed, Toyota has been on a decontenting binge since the mid-to-late-1990s, putting profit above the quality obsession that had defined its operations up to that point. As a result, the current generation of decontented Toyotas and accompanying quality issues and recalls can be seen as the culmination of a long-term trend. But why did that transition take place?
. . . .
What did “fat product” mean in real terms? Around 1990 Toyota’s global output was about 300k units per month, comprised of no fewer than 60k product variations, 25k of which were assembled only once per month. The worst-selling half of these variations made up only five percent of total sales. This variation proliferation was caused by Toyota’s ability to respond to the market’s demand for product differentiation, but in the cutthroat global car business, this was not a sustainable state of affairs.
In addition to overbuilding variety in response to consumer demand, there is evidence that Japanese firms also overbuilt for quality in this period as well (although this is often difficult to objectively quantify). Fujimoto notes:
When I interviewed a product engineer at a German car maker in the late 1980s, he commented that one of the leading Japanese models was about $500 more expensive that the equivalent German model owing to overquality and excessive designs, other things being equal.Whether this phenomenon existed across Toyota’s product range is nearly impossible to prove, but one thing is certain: in the early to mid 1990s, Toyota’s managers clearly believed that it suffered from “fat product” and moved aggressively to limit its effects.
. . . .
The real extent of this cost-cutting, decontenting and “design leaning” won’t be easy to quantify, but the fact that it’s been taking place since the early nineties and is only now yielding negative effects suggests that it’s been relatively well-managed. But Toyota’s reputation was built on those “fat” products of the mid-80s to early-90s, and it won’t be returning to the old practices that created them anytime soon due to their competitive disadvantages. This seems to suggest that, once damaged, Toyota is unlikely to ever recover its former quality halo.
This article is a little wonkish and short on specifics, but describes Totyota's recent trip up and down the quality spectrum.
Excerpts:
It's a complex story involving exchange rates and the intricacies of vehicle design and manufacturing, and a company that got so good at doing things well that it might have put them at a competitive disadvantage.
That particular 1992 Plymouth Acclaim was a piece of JUNK - - I never wanted it in the first place and two years before our 1998 divorce my ex gave my previous car to our daughter, and bought the Acclaim for me for $5K. Maybe he saw divorce on the horizon before I did.