Tell me not to buy a bigger house

[Helena]

What seems like lifetimes ago, before I woke up as it were, I was very materialistic. Having found a more simplistic, elegant approach to life, I find I'm much happier. What I find particularly ironic is that while I live in a very "nice", trendy and chic area, this in fact makes me unhappy because it's all so shiny, happy, vacant, and synthetic. And I'm talking about the people, not the place. Moving in the not too distant future will change all that.

For now, I can definitely afford to spend more, to be less frugal, but why? Comfortable and satisfied now, what would spending more get me? More stuff? Materialism, whether it be "expensive" hobbies, houses, cars, neighborhoods, etc., can never replace an internally derived sense of satisfaction, IMO. As they say, your money or your life.

What kind of area are you moving to ?

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[CorporateSoldier]

I'm guessing there's no feasible way you could build a separate garage on your property? What about a compromise...find a fairly modest house on a large lot, and have your own dream garage built?

I had a 24x40 garage built for around $30,000, although that was back in 2005/2006. It was post-and-beam construction, which is cheaper than stud walls. That cost also included a lot of grading, bringing in dirt, adding about 200 feet of gravel driveway, and running electricity from the house to the garage, a distance of about 175 feet.

Good thoughts. The tough part about where I live is that if you want some land, you will almost certainly have to live off of a dirt road. I have a hobby car and one of my motorcycles that would absolutely be miserable on a dirt road (a Porsche and an MV Agusta).

 

[CorporateSoldier]

I live alone in a 500 square feet apartment, before that about 1.200. Before that anything ranging from 350 up to 900. City life.

Try this article, it sort of sums up my view
Why your house is a terrible investment
But hey, to each his own

Wow - 500 square feet! I am curious: do you live in a very high cost urban area? What sort of income do you have and what sort of interests?

My space issue is that I own big toys: three cars, a boat and two motorcycles. Plus 1-2 of my kids will be living at home over at least the next few summers and they both have their own cars as well. So, including their cars (college students) I have like eight vehicles registered in my name and would like to buy a couple more motorcycles.

 

[LoneAspen]

Wow - 500 square feet! I am curious: do you live in a very high cost urban area? What sort of income do you have and what sort of interests?

My space issue is that I own big toys: three cars, a boat and two motorcycles. Plus 1-2 of my kids will be living at home over at least the next few summers and they both have their own cars as well. So, including their cars (college students) I have like eight vehicles registered in my name and would like to buy a couple more motorcycles.

If you got your pilot's license and took up flying, you could have an even bigger toy

 

[Derslickmeister]

Did you not just state that it's just the two of you now? You would each have 2000 sqft apiece in this new place? Why would you even consider this? All your expenses will be going up with this place: property taxes, cleaning, maintenance, extra furnishings, utilities, etc...

 

[NW-Bound]

While I own two homes, I do not think of them as investments, but rather as consumption items. They are better than other consumption items like cars, boats, RVs, airplanes in that they usually hold their values. That's it.

What many people consider home appreciation is actually just correction for inflation. The expenses like taxes, maintenance, insurance etc..., are gone and never recovered.

But I have to live somewhere, and not having to pay rent and having a permanent place is nice. It was the right size when we raised our children. Now that they are gone, it costs money to move, so we don't.

Hmm... How do I explain the 2nd home? Well, I was rebalancing some stock gains into, ahem, a consumption item that I fell in love with. Heck, why not? It cost a few hundred Ks, but it has been worth it. I am frugal in other areas, which make up for this.

 

[Totoro]

Wow - 500 square feet! I am curious: do you live in a very high cost urban area? What sort of income do you have and what sort of interests?

The apartment I currently rent is about $19k USD a year, in Amsterdam. Not nearly as insane as New York or London, but still quite costly.

My net income (after tax) varies a bit, but it has been between $90k and $120k the last few years. It's probably going to drop in the coming months though.

I own no expensive nor big toys, I rent them on occasion. Sports cars for example. It's much cheaper and less hassle (no maintenance, insurance, ..). I actually don't own a car at all right now, but rent one every few days or weeks when needed. Public transportation and living close to your workplace, it is a blessing!

My other interests are mostly travel, a bit of sports (gym), reading and things like this forum. Only travel ranks high in expenses.

 

[CorporateSoldier]

We drove by the house last night to take a peak - seeing it with the realtor after work today. What a setup: 4,000 square foot house on a very nice all sports lake, sandy beach, 3/4 of an acre, 2 car attached garage plus a 3.5 car detached garage (not a pole barn - heated and finished like the exterior of the house). Finished walkout basement. Off of a paved road, nice landscaping.

Looks like a dream house to us with the lake and the garage setup. Wish it was less expensive and more like 3000 square feet. Asking price is $775k and taxes are going to be around $9000 a year. Oh my, having heartburn over those numbers. We can afford it but it is the very top of our range.

Funny part of course is that when I put in my income and all that into mortgage calculators, it says I can buy a $1.5M house.

 

[Meadbh]

As you requested, I am telling you:

Don't buy a bigger house.

Whether you take the advice or not is your call.

 

[Bestwifeever]

We drove by the house last night to take a peak - seeing it with the realtor after work today. What a setup: 4,000 square foot house on a very nice all sports lake, sandy beach, 3/4 of an acre, 2 car attached garage plus a 3.5 car detached garage (not a pole barn - heated and finished like the exterior of the house). Finished walkout basement. Off of a paved road, nice landscaping.

Looks like a dream house to us with the lake and the garage setup. Wish it was less expensive and more like 3000 square feet. Asking price is $775k and taxes are going to be around $9000 a year. Oh my, having heartburn over those numbers. We can afford it but it is the very top of our range.

Funny part of course is that when I put in my income and all that into mortgage calculators, it says I can buy a $1.5M house.

You better hurry up and buy this or the one you mentioned initially and get it out of your system before you move up to a $1.5 mil house.

 

[CorporateSoldier]

As you requested, I am telling you:

Don't buy a bigger house.

Whether you take the advice or not is your call.

Thank you! I am reading your post over and over. I think I will print it and post in my office.

 

[Ready]

If it makes you feel any better, we just looked at a 1,900 square foot condo on the Big Island that was going for $920K, and the developer was sold out on 90% of the development. So in comparison, the houses you are looking at seem like an absolute bargain!

 

[CorporateSoldier]

If it makes you feel any better, we just looked at a 1,900 square foot condo on the Big Island that was going for $920K, and the developer was sold out on 90% of the development. So in comparison, the houses you are looking at seem like an absolute bargain!

Wow. Crazy, isn't it? We are originally from the Boston area, now in Michigan. For the price of an ordinary home in Boston, you can buy a castle here.

 

[someguy]

I also vote against 4000 square feet.

DW and I are closer to 3000 now and wish we had a smaller place, perhaps at a higher quality. In the area we live, the options are tough. It's very hard to find the highest quality not accompanied by massive square footage. We can easily afford one of the monsters and keep our mortgage to income ratio in single digits, but heating/cooling/cleaning all that space would be a pain.

So that leaves building custom which would probably cost the same as the existing monster houses but at half the square footage. Not a problem if we'd never want to sell it, but big problem if we would.

It sounds like the best idea for you is what several others have already suggested: find a smallish, modest place with the land to be able to build your dream garage.

 

[Chuckanut]

The more space you have, the more places to fill with things. Things are the anchors that weigh down our life. (Thanks for a fellow FIRE person for posting that thought.)

Free yourself.

 

[chris2008]

Who wants to clean all that 4000 square feet + windows + garages - or to pay cleaners
Who volunteers for the garden work or wants to hire professionals

Lots of good advice here. You will never be able to say that you have not been warned...

 

[CorporateSoldier]

Who wants to clean all that 4000 square feet + windows + garages - or to pay cleaners
Who volunteers for the garden work or wants to hire professionals

Lots of good advice here. You will never be able to say that you have not been warned...

I definitely appreciate the feedback. I understand many of these polite posters would actually rather say to me "are you a frickin' idiot?" .

My wife doesn't work, the kids are grown and she loves working in the yard. I can't imagine cleaning can be too bad - how much of a mess can two adults make?

 

[CorporateSoldier]

I also vote against 4000 square feet.

DW and I are closer to 3000 now and wish we had a smaller place, perhaps at a higher quality. In the area we live, the options are tough. It's very hard to find the highest quality not accompanied by massive square footage. We can easily afford one of the monsters and keep our mortgage to income ratio in single digits, but heating/cooling/cleaning all that space would be a pain.

Same thing out here - if you want nice location, extra garage space and all that, the homes are typically huge.

If the house we are looking at was 2000-2500 square feet instead of 4000, it would be perfect. We are also in no rush so maybe we give the real estate people those specs and have them look longer.

 

[Calico]

I definitely appreciate the feedback. I understand many of these polite posters would actually rather say to me "are you a frickin' idiot?" .

My wife doesn't work, the kids are grown and she loves working in the yard. I can't imagine cleaning can be too bad - how much of a mess can two adults make?

You don't want us to tell you not to buy the bigger house. You are talking yourself into it with everything you post in this thread. Personally I would not do it, but to each their own. In the end you may find the house owns you rather than the reverse. I wish you luck whatever you decide - and I suspect you have already decided.

 

[someguy]

We also like contemporary/modern homes, or at least ones with some of those types of features (e.g., minimal woodwork, lots of glass, etc.) and it's hard to find a home like that under 4,000 square feet and the really cool ones tend to be 5,000+.

There is a psychological aspect to a huge place I think many of us are trying to warn you about. It's hard to put accurately into words but it seems to be there for a lot of people. The huge electric bills in the summer and NG bills in the winter are easily affordable to us, but they are nonetheless still grating. By comparison, back in my P-car days, a $200 oil change was more amusing than annoying, so it's not simply that I am "cheap" or "frugal". I'm sure part of it is just the human "grass is greener" see-saw.

Same thing out here - if you want nice location, extra garage space and all that, the homes are typically huge.

If the house we are looking at was 2000-2500 square feet instead of 4000, it would be perfect. We are also in no rush so maybe we give the real estate people those specs and have them look longer.

 

[Meadbh]

I understand many of these polite posters would actually rather say to me "are you a frickin' idiot?" .

Yes, but we are too nice to be so blunt!

 

[aja8888]

Once you get this house, your wife will want a housekeeper and a gardener. Take my word for it.

 

[chris2008]

I can't imagine cleaning can be too bad - how much of a mess can two adults make?

In my experience the mess in big houses of adults is not so much made by people but by little critters like mites (result: dust) and spiders.

I have seen some McMansions where the dust was piling up, for example (but not only) in corners and on high hanging lamp shades and book cases that could be looked on from the upper level rooms but not easily reached at. Same for spider webs and spider droppings.
(I have just cleaned my home office incl. bookcases and corners, so I know )

 

[daylatedollarshort]

I have looked at many happiness studies over the years, and I have never seen a big house listed on what really makes people happy. To me financial security, free time, and not having to work unless I want to are important. Having a big house with lots of overhead and a big capital investment just seems the opposite of that. We can't wait to downsize. Last week we each spent the good part of a day just clearing out a fraction of the garage. I'd rather have spent that day hiking or taking an art class.

I like the idea of having to get rid of half our stuff. It is making me dwindle my possessions down to the things I use, wear and enjoy the most. Today's event is taking bags and bags of stuff to Goodwill. They can make money to help the less fortunate and I can improve my Feng Shui. Win - win.

 

[MBAustin]

In my experience the mess in big houses of adults is not so much made by people but by little critters like mites (result: dust) and spiders.

I have seen some McMansions where the dust was piling up, for example (but not only) in corners and on high hanging lamp shades and book cases that could be looked on from the upper level rooms but not easily reached at. Same for spider webs and spider droppings.

+1. And windows get dirty no matter what. Many large upscale houses have windows in areas that are nearly impossible to clean without a scaffold.

Finally, the larger the house, the more places to put clutter that eventually has to be dealt with. I was amazed at what I found when we moved out of our 3400 sq ft. house, and we'd only lived there 11 years.