Treasury Bills, Notes, and Bonds Discussion

[JoeWras]

Looks like the 13 and 26 are coming out today. I'm waiting for them to be available to buy. Last I checked, I was not able to order them.

Usually early afternoon.

 

[Accidental Retiree]

No. I just got off the phone with Schwab. They had some kind of routing issue. I bought the same 26 week bill on the secondary market for about the same price (I lost 36 cents total. Whoopee). You might want to try calling the general client services desk (not the fixed income desk) and see if they are going to try to reroute your order. The person I talked to wasn't sure if they were going to be able to do that. I gave him specific instructions not to reroute mine and leave it canceled.

I let it sit and they made the purchase for me a couple of days ago.

 

[audreyh1]

Looks like the 13 and 26 are coming out today. I'm waiting for them to be available to buy. Last I checked, I was not able to order them.

The Treasury has not yet announced their auction according to https://www.treasurydirect.gov/auctions/upcoming/. When they do there will be a PDF link to the auction details for each t-bill.

They will be announced sometime this morning, and by afternoon the brokers will show them as available to order.

 

[MarieIG]

Thanks Audrey!

 

[audreyh1]

Looks like the announcements don’t occur until 11:00am eastern time.

At least that’s what the embargo said on the 8-week and 4-week announcement PDFs.

 

[MarieIG]

Good to know.

 

[wdwwildbill]

Thanks for the info

 

[Another Reader]

Announcement up on TD now.

 

[disneysteve]

When a bond or cd is callable on a certain date, what exactly does that mean? Does it either get called then or not or can it be called at any point from then on?

 

[Fermion]

I don't get it. I go to Fidelity fixed income, Treasury bills,bonds, and when I click on auctions, I only get five, none of which are 13 or 26 week.

1 UNITED STATES TREAS BILLS ZERO CPN 0.000 02/09/2023 -- -- -- 4.006 Yes 11/07/2022 11/10/2022 08/11/2022 CP SFP
RI
2 UNITED STATES TREASURY ZERO CPN 0.000 05/11/2023 -- -- -- 4.261 Yes 11/07/2022 11/10/2022 11/10/2022 CP SFP
3 UNITED STATES SER AU-2025 TREASURY NOTE 4.375 11/15/2025 -- -- -- 4.626 Yes 11/08/2022 11/15/2022 11/15/2022 CP SFP
4 UNITED STATES SER F-2032 TREASURY NOTE 4.000 11/15/2032 -- -- -- 4.173 Yes 11/09/2022 11/15/2022 11/15/2022 CP SFP
5 UNITED STATES SER BONDS OF NOVEMBETREASURY 4.000 11/15/2052 -- -- -- 4.180 Yes 11/10/2022 11/15/2022 11/15/2022 CP SFP

 

[Sunset]

I don't get it. I go to Fidelity fixed income, Treasury bills,bonds, and when I click on auctions, I only get five, none of which are 13 or 26 week.

1 UNITED STATES TREAS BILLS ZERO CPN 0.000 02/09/2023 -- -- -- 4.006 Yes 11/07/2022 11/10/2022 08/11/2022 CP SFP
RI
2 UNITED STATES TREASURY ZERO CPN 0.000 05/11/2023 -- -- -- 4.261 Yes 11/07/2022 11/10/2022 11/10/2022 CP SFP
3 UNITED STATES SER AU-2025 TREASURY NOTE 4.375 11/15/2025 -- -- -- 4.626 Yes 11/08/2022 11/15/2022 11/15/2022 CP SFP
4 UNITED STATES SER F-2032 TREASURY NOTE 4.000 11/15/2032 -- -- -- 4.173 Yes 11/09/2022 11/15/2022 11/15/2022 CP SFP
5 UNITED STATES SER BONDS OF NOVEMBETREASURY 4.000 11/15/2052 -- -- -- 4.180 Yes 11/10/2022 11/15/2022 11/15/2022 CP SFP

It's too early in the day, Bonds have banking hours Look after lunch and they should be there.

 

[audreyh1]

I don't get it. I go to Fidelity fixed income, Treasury bills,bonds, and when I click on auctions, I only get five, none of which are 13 or 26 week.

1 UNITED STATES TREAS BILLS ZERO CPN 0.000 02/09/2023 -- -- -- 4.006 Yes 11/07/2022 11/10/2022 08/11/2022 CP SFP
RI
2 UNITED STATES TREASURY ZERO CPN 0.000 05/11/2023 -- -- -- 4.261 Yes 11/07/2022 11/10/2022 11/10/2022 CP SFP
3 UNITED STATES SER AU-2025 TREASURY NOTE 4.375 11/15/2025 -- -- -- 4.626 Yes 11/08/2022 11/15/2022 11/15/2022 CP SFP
4 UNITED STATES SER F-2032 TREASURY NOTE 4.000 11/15/2032 -- -- -- 4.173 Yes 11/09/2022 11/15/2022 11/15/2022 CP SFP
5 UNITED STATES SER BONDS OF NOVEMBETREASURY 4.000 11/15/2052 -- -- -- 4.180 Yes 11/10/2022 11/15/2022 11/15/2022 CP SFP

The Treasury auction announcements occur after 11:00am eastern time. They will show up on Fidelity sometime in the afternoon, after the announcement.

 

[jldavid47]

When a bond or cd is callable on a certain date, what exactly does that mean? Does it either get called then or not or can it be called at any point from then on?

It depends. You have to look at the details. There are usually three types of calls:

1) Callable every X months with Y days notice starting on MM/DD/YY.
2) Continuously callable (i.e. they can call it at any time after issuance)
3) Continuously callable starting MM/DD/YY with Y days notice.

Treasuries are not callable, but government agency issues and CDs can be. Schwab is very good at presenting call details for callable securities before you buy. You need to look at the details before making any purchase of these to make sure you are comfortable with the terms.

 

[MarieIG]

Orders for the 13 and 26 week are in!

 

[disneysteve]

It depends. You have to look at the details. There are usually three types of calls:

1) Callable every X months with Y days notice starting on MM/DD/YY.
2) Continuously callable (i.e. they can call it at any time after issuance)
3) Continuously callable starting MM/DD/YY with Y days notice.

Treasuries are not callable, but government agency issues and CDs can be. Schwab is very good at presenting call details for callable securities before you buy. You need to look at the details before making any purchase of these to make sure you are comfortable with the terms.

Thank you!

 

[MarieIG]

I have some treasuries maturing in mid-November. I will try to sit tight next week, and not put in any more bond orders, so I don't end up pan handling on a street corner.

I may need to check out the 17 week . . .

I don't want to lock in any longer rates before January, but will see.

 

[Dreamer]

I put in an order for my first Treasury Bills today. I still don't feel completely comfortable with this process, but I am going to keep at it and try to get a ladder going.

I ran into problems where I kept getting a blank page. My wait time at Vanguard was an hour, so I let them call me back. The guy that I spoke to said let me guess, you keep getting a blank page. What Apple product are you using. He told me to go to Safari and then to Preferences, but for some reason it did not show Preferences under Safari. He was trying to look it up to help me, but I asked him what came next if I did find Preferences and he said to turn off Prevent Cross Site track. I told him I would continue trying to find it and thanked him for his help. I never have found Preferences under Safari, but I did find the Prevent Cross Site track, unchecked it and retried Vanguard and it let me go to the page to buy the bills. Hopefully, I will not have that problem again.

I keep going back and reading parts of this thread over again, trying to learn. Thank you to everyone for sharing their knowledge.

 

[copyright1997reloaded]

I have some treasuries maturing in mid-November. I will try to sit tight next week, and not put in any more bond orders, so I don't end up pan handling on a street corner.

I may need to check out the 17 week . . .

I don't want to lock in any longer rates before January, but will see.

This thread is now bumming me out...because all my cash is pretty much invested either in T-Bills or things like SWVXX. The SWVXX is for short term needs/buying equities as opportunities arise.

Now I need to sit patiently (which I am not so good at) until some things mature. Which makes me

 

[Fermion]

Still not seeing the new short term bill auctions on Fidelity.

However, what would be the downside of just choosing any old t-bill or bond on the secondary market that has the highest yield for a similar time frame?

Like I look at a bond issued 1/15/2021 with a 0.125 coupon, maturing in 1/15/2024. It is trading for 94.496 and so has a yield of 4.942%

Am I missing something important here?

 

[JoeWras]

Still not seeing the new short term bill auctions on Fidelity.

13 and 26 weeks are there. 4 and 8 are on a different schedule earlier in the week.

 

[wdwwildbill]

I have some treasuries maturing in mid-November. I will try to sit tight next week, and not put in any more bond orders, so I don't end up pan handling on a street corner.

I may need to check out the 17 week . . .

I don't want to lock in any longer rates before January, but will see.

Why would you wait ? Is it because of possible rate increase ? thanks

 

[wdwwildbill]

Still not seeing the new short term bill auctions on Fidelity.

However, what would be the downside of just choosing any old t-bill or bond on the secondary market that has the highest yield for a similar time frame?

Like I look at a bond issued 1/15/2021 with a 0.125 coupon, maturing in 1/15/2024. It is trading for 94.496 and so has a yield of 4.942%

Am I missing something important here?

+1

 

[MarieIG]

Why would you wait ? Is it because of possible rate increase ? thanks

Yes. Jerome Powell mentioned a potential terminal rate of 5.2 - subject to change, of course.

In the meantime, I should be getting a decent (nominal) rate on my shorter term bills.

Also, one of our accounts "the house account" is dedicated to the purchase of a retirement home. I need to keep the funds in that account readily accessible as DH is itching to buy a house, so I prefer short term in that account.

 

[MarieIG]

This thread is now bumming me out...because all my cash is pretty much invested either in T-Bills or things like SWVXX. The SWVXX is for short term needs/buying equities as opportunities arise.

Now I need to sit patiently (which I am not so good at) until some things mature. Which makes me

I have some SWVXX. TD Ameritrade lets me hold it against bond orders (maybe because they take forever to settle), but they seem to want cash in their stinkin' sweep account for limit orders on equities. Are you able to use the SWVXX for limit equity orders?

 

[audreyh1]

Still not seeing the new short term bill auctions on Fidelity.

However, what would be the downside of just choosing any old t-bill or bond on the secondary market that has the highest yield for a similar time frame?

Like I look at a bond issued 1/15/2021 with a 0.125 coupon, maturing in 1/15/2024. It is trading for 94.496 and so has a yield of 4.942%

Am I missing something important here?

+1

What you are missing is that new issue Treasuries don’t show up at any broker until they are announced.

13-week and 26-week treasuries are announced on Thursday and auctioned on Monday.

But 4-week and 8-week are announced on Tuesday and auctioned on Thursday.

17-week is announced on Tuesday and auctioned on Wednesday.

The new issue treasuries only show up on Fidelity between the announcement (that afternoon) and the auction. That’s just a couple of days.

You really need to familiarize yourself with the treasury announcement and auction schedule if you want to avoid frustration.
https://www.treasurydirect.gov/auctions/upcoming/
https://home.treasury.gov/system/files/221/Tentative-Auction-Schedule.pdf