Who gets paid if we have shutdown

[RetireBy90]

Americans PAY for social security and medicare. Its not a freebies that Government doles out of debt.

I agree, there is no dispute about the fact that SS and Medicare are deducted from every paycheck. However I finally started thinking of it as another tax from feds. If it was actually paid for by our contributions then there would be something there to claim. As it is how is SS different than the other dollars they take from one and give to another ? First SS checks were funded by workers deductions and paid to others. Same today, same as EV checks.

 

[Time2]

It’s easy to waste other people’s money. Members of Congress make a career out of it.

Is that yours? It sounds like something Mark Twain would put together!
Very good.

 

[pb4uski]

Americans PAY for social security and medicare. Its not a freebies that Government doles out of debt.

True for social security but only partially true for Medicare.

Medicare is funded by a combination of general fund taxes, payroll taxes, and premiums paid by beneficiaries.

According to the Kaiser Family Foundation, general fund taxes paid for 46% of the cost of Medicare in 2021. This is up from 20% in 1972.

 

[Car-Guy]

True for social security but only partially true for Medicare.

Medicare is funded by a combination of general fund taxes, payroll taxes, and premiums paid by beneficiaries.

According to the Kaiser Family Foundation, general fund taxes paid for 46% of the cost of Medicare in 2021. This is up from 20% in 1972.

I didn't know that. Generally speaking, I thought all the money that I (and my employer) paid in as a Medicare tax while I worked, was to pay for Medicare Part A when I retired. And the money I pay now, (deducted from my SS as a retiree) is to pay for Part B. Didn't know they still needed to subsidize that. Learn something new here all the time.

 

[USGrant1962]

...

Especially upset are researchers in the middle of experiments that have to be shut down, and restarted later. That delay has resulted in the loss of months of work because the shut down caused the experiments progress to be destroyed -- for example, cancer cultures dying and having to be grown from scratch again. All to make a pointless political point.

I read the NIH Contingency Plan this morning (related to some work I am doing) and your example should not happen. Protection of government property and of ongoing experiments is specifically exempted.

Excepted staff will also continue to protect government research property, animals, and inanimate property. Examples include on-going caring for and feeding any animals associated with research activities and maintaining research property used for ongoing medical experiments. These staff will also maintain cell lines and other invaluable research materials.

Additionally, staff will be considered exempt and continue to work if their duties are necessary to protect ongoing NIH experiments or operations or if they are needed for the orderly phase-down and suspension of non-funded activities.

https://www.hhs.gov/about/budget/fy-2024-nih-contingency-staffing-plan/index.html#contigency

 

[Midpack]

Do we really need to subsidize $50,000 EV cars? Should the federal government be responsible for ponying up monies for state & city level pension funds?
Why is US defense budget more than rest of world combined? The list is very long. And I am not here to convince anyone. Neither I will be able to.

Why does US government always raise the taxes on middle class, but always fail to close the carried interest loop hole? Loop hole that most billionaires on East and west coast enjoy. More so in Private equity.

Just close all the loop holes. But nope. It's much easier to take on more debt and burden common working citizen.

It would take a LOT more than what you're proposing to balance the budget without raising revenue (29% with no spending cuts). The shortfall in 2022 was $1.4T if you want to take another crack at it. The truth is Americans vote for lower taxes and more spending for themselves and higher taxes and lower spending on "others." There aren't enough rich "others" to make up the deficit, and taxing corporations just increases prices on goods & services to taxpayers. Sure is easy to sit on your couch and fix the world...

 

[MichaelB]

Payroll taxes pay for Medicare part A. Medicare part B is subsidized for everyone, even the wealthiest. The subsidy for most is 75% of the total cost, less for higher income people via IRMAA. https://www.ssa.gov/benefits/medicare/medicare-premiums.html

Part B helps pay for your doctors’ services and outpatient care. It also covers other medical services, such as physical and occupational therapy, and some home health care. For most beneficiaries, the government pays a substantial portion — about 75% — of the Part B premium, and the beneficiary pays the remaining 25%.

If we determine you’re a higher-income beneficiary, you’ll pay a larger percentage of the total cost of Part B based on the income you normally report to the Internal Revenue Service (IRS). You’ll pay monthly Part B premiums equal to 35%, 50%, 65%, 80%, or 85% of the total cost, depending on what you report to the IRS.

 

[Markola]

It would take a LOT more than what you're proposing to balance the budget without raising revenue (29% with no spending cuts). The shortfall in 2022 was $1.4T if you want to take another crack at it. The truth is Americans vote for lower taxes and more spending for themselves and higher taxes and lower spending on "others." There aren't enough rich "others" to make up the deficit, and taxing corporations just increases prices on goods & services to taxpayers. Sure is easy to sit on your couch and fix the world...

It’s my opinion that it’s even worse, that it’s simply not possible to directly tax ANYONE enough to pay $32 Trillion in debt. Nor will Americans accept drastic program cuts. I think the US government will do what most have done throughout history, which is the INDIRECT tax route: debase the currency. In fact, it’s already well underway: Spend, finance the spending by issuing treasuries, pay the treasury notes by conjuring new dollars out of thin air.

Of course, there is no free lunch in nature, so the cost borne is that all those newly issued dollars reduce the spending power of the ones already in circulation. Your $100 bill will buy less next year.

Voila. The debt payments are made by the citizens paying an INDIRECT tax in the form of currency debasement of their money. It’s one of the oldest tricks in the history of governments.

 

[pb4uski]

There is really nothing wrong with having some government debt so there is really no need to fully pay it off.... it would be like saying that someone in their early 40s should be debt free... if doesnt happen often and isn't reckless to have some debt.

Typically, deficits debt would grow during recessions fiscal policy is used to spur economic growth and deficits would reverse during good times and over time balance out. That's the way it should work anyway... and overall debt might grow slighly with GDP growth.

Step 1 from here is to, over time, balance the budget and stop the annual deficits. The reality is that in order to responsibly do that both increased taxes and spending restraint will be necessary and our representatives in DC are gutless so it is unlikely to ever happen.

 

[MichaelB]

It’s my opinion that it’s even worse, that it’s simply not possible to directly tax ANYONE enough to pay $32 Trillion in debt. Nor will Americans accept drastic program cuts.

The US net worth, as calculated by the Federal Reserve, is $142T. This is the value of assets minus liabilities, and includes public debt. It has increased by almost $30T in the last 3 years. The asset values have risen faster than the debt since 2020.

The lions share of that is with households and corporations. These are real assets and need to be considered when looking at the debt numbers. It’s like obsessing over mortgage debt without considering the home ownership.

See the Fed statement of accounts here (P 25) https://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/z1/20230908/z1.pdf

 

[Midpack]

There is really nothing wrong with having some government debt so there is really no need to fully pay it off.... it would be like saying that someone in their early 40s should be debt free... if doesnt happen often and isn't reckless to have some debt.

Typically, deficits debt would grow during recessions fiscal policy is used to spur economic growth and deficits would reverse during good times and over time balance out. That's the way it should work anyway... and overall debt might grow slighly with GDP growth.

Step 1 from here is to, over time, balance the budget and stop the annual deficits. The reality is that in order to responsibly do that both increased taxes and spending restraint will be necessary and our representatives in DC are gutless so it is unlikely to ever happen.

Agreed but… Our representatives may indeed be gutless, but voters wouldn’t let them move toward a balanced budget. Most voters are willfully ignorant re: spending, taxes, debts or deficits. Most Americans thought TCJA was a good thing, and now want to curb spending? Voters wouldn’t accept a representative who told them the truth, that’s getting worse not better…

 

[pb4uski]

Yeah, it is hard to give the boss the straight scoop when that isn't what they want to hear, but we all did it during our careers. You have to be diplomatic about it but it still needs to be done. Otherwise , you're part of the problem.

The absolute worst thing that can happen is that you get fired, right?

 

[Gumby]

There are times, thankfully few, when I feel as if I am trapped in William Butler Yeats' poem The Second Coming:

"The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity."

I'm sure we will get through this, but this repeated performative drama is really getting old.

 

[pb4uski]

Besides, we allegedly had a "deal" when the debt ceiling was raised... what happened to that agreement? Just do whatever was agreed to then and be done with it. Clowns that are not funny.

 

[Badger]

Voters wouldn’t accept a representative who told them the truth, that’s getting worse not better…

+1 Well said.

Cheers

 

[Markola]

We’ve met the enemy, and it is us.

It’s pretty clear to me that, since 1980s, we’ve chosen to increase services while cutting taxes. Since getting hooked on Supply Side/Voodoo Economics theory, we are keeping the party going through central banking and other monetary financial gymnastics, while the fiscal side becomes ever more dysfunctional and ludicrous. The monetary bag of free lunch tricks can pay the resulting ballooning debt payments for a very long time (see Argentina), until it doesn’t.

 

[Car-Guy]

There are times, thankfully few, when I feel as if I am trapped in William Butler Yeats' poem The Second Coming:

"The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity."

I'm sure we will get through this, but this repeated performative drama is really getting old.

Agreed but… Our representatives may indeed be gutless, but voters wouldn’t let them move toward a balanced budget. Most voters are willfully ignorant re: spending, taxes, debts or deficits. Most Americans thought TCJA was a good thing, and now want to curb spending? Voters wouldn’t accept a representative who told them the truth, that’s getting worse not better…

Maybe to "protect ourselves" from our "ignorance" we should at least up the requirements to become a Senator or Representative.(Mod's please delete this post if it's getting to political)

1 - Be at least 35 years old (40 would be better)

2 - Have at least 10 years of real world working experience (15+ would be better)

3 - Have a verified IQ of at least 100 (110+ would be better)

 

[Markola]

^^^^^ Count me in - if there are also term limits.

 

[ShokWaveRider]

We do, SS recipients that is.

 

[pb4uski]

^^^^^ Count me in - if there are also term limits.

30 years. After you have been in Congress for 30 years you can serve the remainder of your term but then you are done.

So if you get elected at age 40 then you are out by 74 at the latest.

 

[Car-Guy]

Looks like they are still going out at 12.01am this Sunday. Here's a pretty good summary published yesterday from Reuters of what closes/stops and what doesn't. Can't believe congress still gets paid.



https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-government-shutdown-what-closes-what-stays-open-2023-09-21/

 

[molly312]

Congress and Senate gets paid

 

[folivier]

IMO until we have term limits and congress & senate DON'T get paid during this debacle then it will continue. IOW they need to have consequences for their own action and in-action.

 

[Car-Guy]

Agreed, as we would often say at work, way back in the day, you need to eat your own dog food. Seems they exempt themselves from all sorts of things that they pass "on us".

But as someone pointed out earlier, many are independently wealthy anyway. (Some very wealthy) Over half are millionaires so why do they need to get paid in a shutdown?


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_current_members_of_the_United_States_Congress_by_wealth

 

[RxMan]

Is that yours? It sounds like something Mark Twain would put together!
Very good.

I just wrote that off the top of my head but I would be shocked if I was the first person to articulate this point.