Who has actually retired to Italy?
- Thread starter palomalou
- Start date
Please let us know what you find out about retirement visa requirements. Such as minimum income, or bank balance. If you can buy property or if you must have an Italian bank account and what the minimum amount is. Driving license, can you convert your state side license to an Italian one. Medical, such as private insurance requirements. How long can you stay under a retirement visa and the renewal process. What, if any, income tax you'll have to pay to the Italian gov on retirement pension/401k, IRA. Interest income etc payments from the US. How to rid yourself of a US State domicile so not to pay taxes to that state or be called upon to do jury duty etc.
I know there's a sticky thread on moving abroad, but I don't think anyone has wrote about Italy and their requirements.
They do have a DTA with Italy to avoid double taxation but you will still have to file and pay US taxes, taking foreign tax credits to reduce US taxes paid.
https://www.irs.gov/businesses/international-businesses/italy-tax-treaty-documents
Here is a PDF of the agreement plus another pdf giving a "Technical" explanation of the agreement. Article 18 covers pensions, SS etc.
https://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/tax-policy/treaties/Documents/italy.pdf
https://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/tax-policy/treaties/Documents/teitaly.pdf
Markola
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
We have friends who retired there nearly a decade ago with modest means and without any dual citizenship or advantages, so if there’s a will there’s a way.
We've thought about this many times. Our immediate family, DSI, DBI, DN and her husband live in the mountains above Bologna, the Apennines. They are Italian. Most people speak some English, even in the small mountain villages. This link provides some information. We visit or have visited every 2-3 years over the past 35 years.
Driving in Italy can be dangerous, depending where you live. City driving...well there are very few rules of the road. I would never drive in the mountains or the cities. The roads are small, few guard rails, no shoulders and few places to pull off. Many people walk and bike on these roads. It's very dangerous and you'd need a 6th sense to manage the curves.
The valleys and countryside of Tuscany would be the place to live. Beauty and peace,
vineyards and fruit trees surround you. We just have to get our act together and go for it.
https://www.immigration-italy.com/what-you-need-to-retire-in-italy
Driving in Italy can be dangerous, depending where you live. City driving...well there are very few rules of the road. I would never drive in the mountains or the cities. The roads are small, few guard rails, no shoulders and few places to pull off. Many people walk and bike on these roads. It's very dangerous and you'd need a 6th sense to manage the curves.
The valleys and countryside of Tuscany would be the place to live. Beauty and peace,
vineyards and fruit trees surround you. We just have to get our act together and go for it.
https://www.immigration-italy.com/what-you-need-to-retire-in-italy
Thanks—keep it Coming!
I live in NYC and don’t drive. I have a license but haven’t driven a car for over 6 years. Hate them, hence Venice. I have read some on the legal—seems it is easy for Americans to buy an apartment in Italy, reciprocal with US.
I live in NYC and don’t drive. I have a license but haven’t driven a car for over 6 years. Hate them, hence Venice. I have read some on the legal—seems it is easy for Americans to buy an apartment in Italy, reciprocal with US.
We lived in Tuscany, Italy twice in 90-day increments over the past 3 years.
If you can get by without a vehicle, it should save you some money as Italians pay more for gas than almost every other European nation. Last year, we paid about €5/gallon.
We found the COL in Tuscany relative to food to be about equal to what we spend in the U.S. - although quality-wise, much better in Tuscany. Fiber-optic internet in the Chianti region was costing the homeowner about €30/month. Electricity is quite a bit more expensive than what most U.S. households would pay, a frequent complaint among many Italians.
I can't speak to what one might face in Italy the way of taxation as an expat. We did meet an expat from Oz who was able to leverage a great off-season deal on an apartment in a small hill-top town in Tuscany, paying about €500/month. Not sure what she does about housing during high-season, though.
If you can get by without a vehicle, it should save you some money as Italians pay more for gas than almost every other European nation. Last year, we paid about €5/gallon.
We found the COL in Tuscany relative to food to be about equal to what we spend in the U.S. - although quality-wise, much better in Tuscany. Fiber-optic internet in the Chianti region was costing the homeowner about €30/month. Electricity is quite a bit more expensive than what most U.S. households would pay, a frequent complaint among many Italians.
I can't speak to what one might face in Italy the way of taxation as an expat. We did meet an expat from Oz who was able to leverage a great off-season deal on an apartment in a small hill-top town in Tuscany, paying about €500/month. Not sure what she does about housing during high-season, though.
I recommend a second floor flat - or higher.
Forgot to mention in an earlier post of mine - during our 3 month stay in Italy last year, I had an issue with a dental implant screw breaking. Our return to the U.S. was still 4 months away and rather than wait, I saw an implant specialist in Florence. The care that I received was first rate. Their office not only stayed open late to accommodate me, but the dentist also provided me his personal mobile number to call him for my follow up appts. Just for kicks I asked the office manager what they typically charge for a dental implant. €900 all inclusive.
Italian friends of ours are very satisfied with their public health system.
Italian friends of ours are very satisfied with their public health system.
Not a bad idea. Venice floods almost every year. It isn't uncommon to have knee deep standing water and temporary boardwalks everywhere.
Freedom56
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
I have a friend from high school who moved to Italy. He met a nice Italian woman a long time ago and they got married. She did not like living here so he ended up moving to a small village north of Ancona on the Adriatic coast. He had to start all over again including learning Italian fluently and finding a job which he did. He had a hard time adjusting to the slow pace of living in a village of 800 people. People in the village called him "il gigante" (the giant). He is 6'4" in a village where most are about 5'3". When we visited him the first time after he moved, he was still adjusting to his new job and lifestyle. We saw him two years ago and was happy as ever. His two daughters were grown up and left Italy to study in the UK. He and his wife are living happily in their nice coastal home and living on rental income from their apartments.
We found that the countryside wasn't as well served by public transit as other countries in central Europe such as Germany, so if you wan't to get out and see more of Italy than just the cities, we found a car to be very helpful. Agree that city roads can be a challenge (I had to drive in downtown Florence during rush hour for several days but survived fine). Other than a couple of mountain roads, we had no trouble driving in the countryside (even on single lane roads) or on the Autostrades.
Tailgating is Italy's national pastime. Italians also seem to fancy themselves as great drivers. I beg to differ.
You only get tailgated if you drive too slow for the norms of the area. I had no issues driving in Italy whether it was the Autostrada or the local streets.
We considered it. My husband and 2 sons are dual citizens. I found the expats in italy website useful for the paperwork/banking/visa processes. A good forum and lots of articles.
https://www.expatsinitaly.com/
https://www.expatsinitaly.com/
brett
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
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- 5,926
We have driven cars many times in Italy. All over Tuscany, Marche, etc. Never in the city though...except one time we mistakenly drove through Assisi.
Never had a problem with the other drivers. If we had an issue it would be with the poor rural road signs. The unmanned vending machine gas stations were a bit of a challenge at first until some locals showed us how to do it.
Never had a problem with the other drivers. If we had an issue it would be with the poor rural road signs. The unmanned vending machine gas stations were a bit of a challenge at first until some locals showed us how to do it.
Have driven a lot in Italy - yes, the Italians can be capricious at times, however, for the most part it is similar to driving in Europe in general. Be careful of the narrow roads, slow down in the cities and be prepared to stop to let cars going the other way go through. The worst experience I had was driving in Florence - got boxed in trying to park (they park cars side-by-side 5 and 6 times deep) Very difficult to get out. They have small cars in general there, so you are a more maneuverable than the typical American or German car.
I had a student visa in Italy when I did a small stint in medical school in Milan. You will need to get your Fiscali number....that is your Italian SS. The Italian bureaucracy is notoriously sclerotic, even for Italians. Be prepared to wait in lines and deal with insanity. However, I found that the Italians were enamored that you as an American were there in Italy and wanted to become part of their community. If you were polite, they were exceedingly polite back. And if you tried to speak Italian, they really appreciated it.
Almost all financial transactions and appointments/official paperwork (I would have had to get a green card even though I had the student visa) are done through the post office. Moreover, the Italians tend to wait to the absolute last minute to finish the paperwork. Case in point, I received my passport with my student Visa via FEDEX on the day of my flight from the USA...they truly cut it that fine. And I found that approach was the attitude in general. To a planner like me that was very frustrating, anxiety-ridden and exasperating....
Do not mess with the enforcers - if you are riding any public transport, once you buy the ticket you must validate it with the stamp machine which can be found near the track. If you are found with it not validated you will pay the fine and it will be paid right there or they will force-ably take you from the train/bus and take you to the police station to pay the fine. They take cash and credit cards. I saw this happen on a train from the Milan airport to the center of town. And the policeman tended to choose tourists to check. There was a iron fist in velvet glove approach and they did not care if you did not know the rules. So make sure you know the rules.
It is similar here in Germany, however the enforcers do not wear uniforms. They dress in regular clothes and get on the bus/train and ask to see your pass/ticket. If you do not have it, they fine you. The Germans are real fans of the random reinforcement route....got asked many times when I live in Stuttgart and was taking the bus/train to airport from where I lived.
I had a student visa in Italy when I did a small stint in medical school in Milan. You will need to get your Fiscali number....that is your Italian SS. The Italian bureaucracy is notoriously sclerotic, even for Italians. Be prepared to wait in lines and deal with insanity. However, I found that the Italians were enamored that you as an American were there in Italy and wanted to become part of their community. If you were polite, they were exceedingly polite back. And if you tried to speak Italian, they really appreciated it.
Almost all financial transactions and appointments/official paperwork (I would have had to get a green card even though I had the student visa) are done through the post office. Moreover, the Italians tend to wait to the absolute last minute to finish the paperwork. Case in point, I received my passport with my student Visa via FEDEX on the day of my flight from the USA...they truly cut it that fine. And I found that approach was the attitude in general. To a planner like me that was very frustrating, anxiety-ridden and exasperating....
Do not mess with the enforcers - if you are riding any public transport, once you buy the ticket you must validate it with the stamp machine which can be found near the track. If you are found with it not validated you will pay the fine and it will be paid right there or they will force-ably take you from the train/bus and take you to the police station to pay the fine. They take cash and credit cards. I saw this happen on a train from the Milan airport to the center of town. And the policeman tended to choose tourists to check. There was a iron fist in velvet glove approach and they did not care if you did not know the rules. So make sure you know the rules.
It is similar here in Germany, however the enforcers do not wear uniforms. They dress in regular clothes and get on the bus/train and ask to see your pass/ticket. If you do not have it, they fine you. The Germans are real fans of the random reinforcement route....got asked many times when I live in Stuttgart and was taking the bus/train to airport from where I lived.
atmsmshr
Full time employment: Posting here.
Kudos to anyone brave enough to drive in Rome and survive to tell the tale!
I haven't yet been to Italy, but would love to visit. But I've had several friends who were stationed at the Aviano airbase which is north of Venice. I never heard any of them say anything but good about living there. Granted, life at an overseas military base is nothing like living on the economy, but still a good sign.
Gringoretirado
Dryer sheet wannabe
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No base housing inside the base. Most of us rented from locals.
Bryan Barnfellow
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Research this carefully. Language is critical when you move from tourist to resident. And, believe me, after 50 or so the language neurons don't fire as easily.Also, keep in mind that if you are going to live off income derived from the US, in dollars, you will have to deal with the Dollar/Euro currency differential regularly. Also tax filing to both the US and Italy every year and trying to decipher correctly the US/Italy tax treaty (who gets to tax what income).
Finally, a note on Venice, there is "high water" now about 100 times a year, versus 10 a century ago. And it's increasing in frequency. There are many ground floor apartments (=1rst floor in the US) for sale/rent; be careful about claims of no flooding. Moving to Italy can be very rewarding w/ respect to lifestyle, but the devil is in the many details.
That said, best of luck.
-BB
Finally, a note on Venice, there is "high water" now about 100 times a year, versus 10 a century ago. And it's increasing in frequency. There are many ground floor apartments (=1rst floor in the US) for sale/rent; be careful about claims of no flooding. Moving to Italy can be very rewarding w/ respect to lifestyle, but the devil is in the many details.
That said, best of luck.
-BB
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