Too lazy to do a poll (letting D-T down) but I needed to get a few posts in so - those of you that live in the dry areas - what are the prospects of drying up soon? SG in AZ, Rep of TX residents sucking the aquifer dry (REWhahoo has a straw going into his cup), etc.? I wonder if it will happen any time soon given the herd of new residents each year into these areas? Or can some engineering outfit just build an enormous water line from some damn state thousands of miles away? As much as we think about oil, what about water? My deep thoughts for the night - I'm exhausted.
Will certain areas of the country run out of water?
- Thread starter wildcat
- Start date
Hawaii's been dropping the aquifer for years and seeing salt-water intrusion. New golf courses are discouraged unless they're designed to irrigate with gray water. We probably have 20-30 years before Something Must Be Done.wildcat said:
There are already a couple island desalination plants running trials. And when we get all the other major home improvement projects out of the way, I need to set up the rainbarrels...
REWahoo
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give
Oilman T Boone Pickens seems to think there is a future in water:
http://www.mesawater.com/default3.asp
Our aquifer already comes under some strain during times of drought with restrictions on landscape irrigation. Iit will no doubt get worse as the population continues to grow. We do have some untapped surface water options in the area, but the subject is highly political.
Maybe water really is the "new oil".
http://www.mesawater.com/default3.asp
Our aquifer already comes under some strain during times of drought with restrictions on landscape irrigation. Iit will no doubt get worse as the population continues to grow. We do have some untapped surface water options in the area, but the subject is highly political.
Maybe water really is the "new oil".
Brat
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
The commencement speaker at my S and DIL graduation from CMA commended that the future of the tanker business is fresh water transport. For that you don't need double hulled ships!
The Ogallala aquifer is ancient water that covers eight states, and is being drawn down rather rapidly in areas. Ever wonder where the water came from that ended the dust bowl? This is it. I'm really not sure what source of water farmers will use to irrigate their crops once this resource is used up.
Yeah. We are mining water in Arizona. If you read historical accounts you find that the water table that used to be a few dozen feet below the surface is thousands of feet below the surface today. Phoenix and Tucson depend significantly on water from the Colorado river and the river is nothing more than a sludge dribble beyond Arizona. There's nothing left to take.
One of the problems is that we get snow birds by the thousand who move here and promptly tear the dessert out of their yard and replace it with their favorite pollen producing plants and grass from the mid-West. Then they have to water the plants day and night during the summer. We have a very large number of golf courses per capita. We've started to pass some laws to require more conservation. All new golf courses have to use effluent water. Still no restrictions on home owners, but I'm sure we'll get there.![:-\](https://www.early-retirement.org/sk/forums/images/smilies/undecided.gif "Undecided :-\")
One of the problems is that we get snow birds by the thousand who move here and promptly tear the dessert out of their yard and replace it with their favorite pollen producing plants and grass from the mid-West. Then they have to water the plants day and night during the summer. We have a very large number of golf courses per capita. We've started to pass some laws to require more conservation. All new golf courses have to use effluent water. Still no restrictions on home owners, but I'm sure we'll get there.
H
Howard
Guest
Canada has 20% of the world's supply of Fresh Water, 2% of the population.
The actual state of water is not being accuratly portayed in the US, I spent several years with a company that tested water quality.
Acquifers in mnay areas are dangerously low, Farmers are reporting dry wells due to intrusions of developments and their needs.
India with over a billion people , normally relied upon dug wells that were replenished by rain, now they are also drilling into the acquifers.
Global Warming will cause many areas to become more arid, the mid west could become a dust bowl, Kyoto accord is designed to stop green House Gasses, the US refuses to sign on, the clock is ticking.
I am a 2 minute walk from Georgian Bay, where Lake Huron empties into, plenty of fresh water.
Raining today, normally we should be under a couple of feet of snow, I can see green grass.
No deer, they have not been forced down from the high country due to snow depth.
The actual state of water is not being accuratly portayed in the US, I spent several years with a company that tested water quality.
Acquifers in mnay areas are dangerously low, Farmers are reporting dry wells due to intrusions of developments and their needs.
India with over a billion people , normally relied upon dug wells that were replenished by rain, now they are also drilling into the acquifers.
Global Warming will cause many areas to become more arid, the mid west could become a dust bowl, Kyoto accord is designed to stop green House Gasses, the US refuses to sign on, the clock is ticking.
I am a 2 minute walk from Georgian Bay, where Lake Huron empties into, plenty of fresh water.
Raining today, normally we should be under a couple of feet of snow, I can see green grass.
No deer, they have not been forced down from the high country due to snow depth.
Jay_Gatsby
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I expect that larger desalination projects will take the place of burdensome demands on fresh water sources (e.g. from Los Angeles).
Mr._johngalt
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Howard said:
When I think about this issue (not often) I always think about The
Great Lakes. They may some day be the most valuable commodity
in the history of man, at least based on today's $.
JG
I don't think availability will be as much of an issue as expense will (as long as we're proactive). You can build a big pipe or aqueduct to anywhere. It is expensive. Desalination plants can produce a limitless supply of fresh water, but you have to build the desalination plants. Water from a desalination plant is much more expensive than water from a river or lake.
Supply and demand will help. If water prices go up 500%, there will be a lot more unwatered yards and unwashed cars.
Supply and demand will help. If water prices go up 500%, there will be a lot more unwatered yards and unwashed cars.
greg
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Nords said:
Join the club! I may have to do the annual wash soon if it is warm enough. Lots of duck/goose poop remnants on my car. Although I think we are still technically under water restrictions here that prevent car washing.
H
Howard
Guest
MTGALT2YU, I totally agree, I have no doubts that the US and Canada are on a collission course over the ownership and control of these waters.
Canada is blessed , as much as we made a mistake in not buying Alaska from Russia, the Americans will live to regret their failure to follow up on their early victories during the War of 1812, they certainly had the opportubity to win that war, but lost it by giving the British and their Indian Allies breathing room.
The Oil Sands of Alberta have more reserves than Saudi Arabia, another resource desperatly needed by the US, one revolution in a supplier country can create problems for America, this is also under the screen of the US Government.
To this add a Government has has No Defecit and is paying down our Debt, Universal Health Care, 1 year paid maternity leave, we may need you guys to start building that fence your government wants to do.
Now if the Jays could win the World Series, it would be a perfect world. (I have photos of me wearing two World Series Rings, friends were associated with the Jays when they won, I got to borrow them for my 50'th Birth day Party, actually my wife did).
Canada is blessed , as much as we made a mistake in not buying Alaska from Russia, the Americans will live to regret their failure to follow up on their early victories during the War of 1812, they certainly had the opportubity to win that war, but lost it by giving the British and their Indian Allies breathing room.
The Oil Sands of Alberta have more reserves than Saudi Arabia, another resource desperatly needed by the US, one revolution in a supplier country can create problems for America, this is also under the screen of the US Government.
To this add a Government has has No Defecit and is paying down our Debt, Universal Health Care, 1 year paid maternity leave, we may need you guys to start building that fence your government wants to do.
Now if the Jays could win the World Series, it would be a perfect world. (I have photos of me wearing two World Series Rings, friends were associated with the Jays when they won, I got to borrow them for my 50'th Birth day Party, actually my wife did).
grumpy
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I have been buying the stocks of water utility companies for the past ten years on the expectation that pure water will become an increasingly scarce resource. I have done very well with these investments. They generally pay a decent dividend and three of them that I previously owned were bought out at a substantial premium. I currently own shares of American States Water (AWR) and Aqua America (WTR). AWR owns water utility companies mostly in the western US. WTR is more focused on the north eastern US. AWR currently yields 2.86% and WTR yields 1.57%. I expect to hold these stocks "forever".
Grumpy
Grumpy
cute fuzzy bunny
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
You're supposed to wash cars?
Plenty of water here in the Yuba/Sutter region. I stuck a shovel in the ground yesterday and when I took the shovel full of dirt out, the hole filled with water.
Plenty of water here in the Yuba/Sutter region. I stuck a shovel in the ground yesterday and when I took the shovel full of dirt out, the hole filled with water.
cute fuzzy bunny
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Heyyy...we dont need to hear about your personal problems here, buddy... 
There was an amazing article in the October issue of Walrus (a really great Canadian newsmagazine with an international perspective) about water.
Canada may have tons of water but the article very clearly laid out how we're screwed up here too unless we start making some major changes now, in fact perhaps more because Canada's climate will be more affected by global warming than almost anywhere else (effects are more dramatic closer to the poles). With global warming, the wet areas and the wet seasons will get wetter and the dry areas will get dryer.
What this means is that we'll have to build vast new resevoirs, dams and projects which divert water from one place to another. And we need to start now since by the time we really need this, we'll be too late to start to 10-20 year lead time needed for this type of project. Pretty scary scenario. Also brings up huge political issues with the US since everytime water is diverted someone is affected and water doesn't respect borders.
Canada may have tons of water but the article very clearly laid out how we're screwed up here too unless we start making some major changes now, in fact perhaps more because Canada's climate will be more affected by global warming than almost anywhere else (effects are more dramatic closer to the poles). With global warming, the wet areas and the wet seasons will get wetter and the dry areas will get dryer.
What this means is that we'll have to build vast new resevoirs, dams and projects which divert water from one place to another. And we need to start now since by the time we really need this, we'll be too late to start to 10-20 year lead time needed for this type of project. Pretty scary scenario. Also brings up huge political issues with the US since everytime water is diverted someone is affected and water doesn't respect borders.
OP
OP
wildcat
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Grumpy -
Have you ever looked at the water treatment stocks? Or are you mainly a dividend hound and limit your buys to the H2O utilities? Also (I know were an engineer in your working years) how possible would it be for a water pipeline to stretch across the US to supply to the dry areas? Seems like it could be a very costly solution.
Have you ever looked at the water treatment stocks? Or are you mainly a dividend hound and limit your buys to the H2O utilities? Also (I know were an engineer in your working years) how possible would it be for a water pipeline to stretch across the US to supply to the dry areas? Seems like it could be a very costly solution.
We already have systems in place in the Southwest that move water several hundred miles. Water from the Colorado River in the NW tip of Arizona is piped to Phoenix and Tucson. Additional water from the Salt and Verde Rivers is added to the mix. The water is pumped into and between several man made lakes around major population areas and then into the water supply. Existing rivers, canals and pipes are used to move the water from where it is to where we want it. I expect this kind of system will be added to rather than replaced. Another water source several hundred miles from some point on the Colorado river could be pumped into it. That water could eventually make it's way to Tucson.wildcat said:
Eventually, the water system may look something like the power grid. If you keep most of the system so that it works with gravity, it is an expense that can be dealt with.
OP
OP
wildcat
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SG -
How has your water bill changed over the years? From your response I suppose the pipeline could be extended beyond the rivers in the surrounding areas. Last time I checked Colorado was also having a tough time keeping up with the demand.
How has your water bill changed over the years? From your response I suppose the pipeline could be extended beyond the rivers in the surrounding areas. Last time I checked Colorado was also having a tough time keeping up with the demand.
All of these dams, pipelines and water projects are subsidized by the Federal Government. You (and everyone else) pays much of my water bill. The bill DW and I see is for about 200 gallons per month and costs me about $20.00. That hasn't changed noticably over the past several years.wildcat said:
We water our yard using flood irrigation. Every 15 days I open up a valve and about 6 inches of water floods my entire 1/3 of an acre. That costs me $2.00 -- up from a $1.50 last year. Flood irrigation water is not treated and may contain some effluent water in the mix. Since it flows through pipes and isn't sprayed, there is very little evaporation and the water soakes into the ground and the ground-water.
grumpy
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wildcat said:
Wildcat,
You have me pegged correctly in one respect but not the other. Yes, I am a dividend hound and so limit my buys to H2O utilitles. But although I worked for NASA I was not an engineer - I was a financial manager for space flight projects so I can't comment on the feasibility of a water pipeline.
Grumpy
