Would you trade 20 years earlier FIRE for private education for your kids?

[youbet]

OP, is this question simply hypothetical? Do you have any skin in the game or just trying to get a rise out of folks with some gossip about "your friend?" Do you even have kids?

 

[KM]

You are assuming they only make $70K and are not putting anything into their 401K or their IRA. Do you know this to be a fact?

If those are the facts, I suspect they will have a hard time doing what you just described. But if they can and they want to - that is their choice. Some people feel very strongly about giving this to their kids. We have friends who will be working a very long time to pay off college bills for their kids. Some are happy they did it. Some, not so happy.

We paid for DS to go to a private high school, DD chose not to. We paid for both of them to go to college, although they both went public (out-of-state). DD worked out well. DS, not so well. I don't regret our decisions, but we were also contributing to our 401Ks and IRAs. Could we have saved more and retired earlier if we sent them in-state? Probably. Wasn't really something I thought about.

When it comes to college - some parents pay everything and pay a lot. Some pay nothing. I really think it is a personal choice each family has to make.

 

[ronocnikral]

Is this a serious question?

yes. how is the "quality" measured? cost of school building? graduation rate? salary and number of years employed 10 years down the road? are there factors such as parent involvement which change this?

and who is holding the yardstick? teacher unions? parents? students?

point being, what some of us regard as quality is different than what others think of as quality.

my question was not meant to be malicious.

 

[W2R]

When it comes to college - some parents pay everything and pay a lot. Some pay nothing. I really think it is a personal choice each family has to make.

+1

I had a long answer all typed out, but the above quote really says it all. If they want to spend their money on private school or college, it's their money and they have every right to do so.

 

[youbet]

yes. how is the "quality" measured? cost of school building? graduation rate? salary and number of years employed 10 years down the road? are there factors such as parent involvement which change this?

and who is holding the yardstick? teacher unions? parents? students?

point being, what some of us regard as quality is different than what others think of as quality.

my question was not meant to be malicious.

Your question isn't malicious, it's naive. You couldn't seriously expect me to give you an answer in a few paragraphs on a forum. There's a ton of opinionated literature and theories out there on measuring the quality of education. I was going to Google up a few for ya, but you might as well do it yourself and settle down for a long read.

And, yes, opinions vary from person to person on what constitutes a "quality" education.

 

[Spanky]

+1
I had a long answer all typed out, but the above quote really says it all. If they want to spend their money on private school or college, it's their money and they have every right to do so.

That's a good answer. My older daughter could have attended Standford, MIT, Or CalTech but decided to attend a local state university with full scholarship. However, she plans to attend one of those schools this Fall to pursue a graduate degree in engineering if offered a fellowship stipend. Her chance of receiving one may be touch despite her nearly perfect GPA and GRE scores and internships. My younger daughter is deciding whether to attend the same local state university or a private college. The cost of attending will be similar since the private college offers a sizable scholarship.

IMHO, the reputation of the university attended is not very relevant to one's success in life. Motivation and determination are a lot more important.Many who graduate from top colleges have discovered that are not better off than those who attended their local state universities in terms of pay and career opportunities. They quickly realize that the material they learned in the “ivory tower” has no relevance to the real world. That said, there are some benefits of attending top colleges: exposure to well-known professors that might influence your career decisions, building connections in your career, and surrounding with people who are diligent and driven. Is it worth 20 years of ER? Only you can decide.

 

[NW-Bound]

IMHO, the reputation of the university attended is not very relevant to one's success in life. Motivation and determination are a lot more important.

+1.

Back on the OP question of whether parents should be working 20 years longer to send their kids to private schools, I will say that I wouldn't, and certainly did not.

It is true that some public high schools are terrible. It may be cheaper to move, even to another state, in order to find a better school. And at college level, state Us are fine, in my view.

 

[youbet]

+1.

Back on the OP question of whether parents should be working 20 years longer to send their kids to private schools, I will say that I wouldn't, and certainly did not.

Wouldn't it be easier to just dial up your income to compensate for the added expense and get on with enjoying life? I don't get this ridiculous "20 extra years" thing. It's like saying that you want a pack of gum for $0.25 and therefore are going to work and delay RE for 25 yrs while you save one penny a year to pay for the gum. What's with OP's "friends" anyway? Or maybe it's OP........ But something is strange in that original post.

 

[Spanky]

Wouldn't it be easier to just dial up your income to compensate for the added expense and get on with enjoying life?

The cheapest solution is a full-scholarship (full-ride) to a prestigious school.

 

[youbet]

The cheapest solution is a full-scholarship (full-ride) to a prestigious school.

Or receive an inheritance or win a large lottery at an opportune time!

Frankly, I generally plan to be able to lift the load myself........

 

[Bestwifeever]

We would and we did.

Agree with above posters re it being a personal choice that each family has to make on its own.

 

[NW-Bound]

The cheapest solution is a full-scholarship (full-ride) to a prestigious school.

Sure. I just couldn't convince my kids to study harder in their high school years. So, I have to be content that they even go to college at all, even if it is at my cost. And I would not pay beyond what our state U charges.

Agree with above posters re it being a personal choice that each family has to make on its own.

Of course! It's a free country.

But really? 20 years of extra work? Please tell us it was less than that in your case.

 

[Bestwifeever]

Actually no it wasn't 20 years extra--I don't even know if it was five. T'he decision wasn't made based on money anyway. But it was best for our kids, our family. Both kids are grateful beyond words for their high school and college costs. I guess we could have used that money for a second house or an RV or both instead .

Swampwiz, did you choose public schools for your kids?

 

[NW-Bound]

The decision wasn't made based on money anyway.

In our case, I guess I would also find a way to pay more if we were convinced that the expenses were needed. As it was, we did not see any problem with our local public system.

 

[Spanky]

Sure. I just couldn't convince my kids to study harder in their high school years. So, I have to be content that they even go to college at all, even if it is at my cost. And I would not pay beyond what our state U charges.

Merit scholarship is very difficult to secure, unlike financial aids based on needs. My older DW was fortunate to receive one. She really earned it -- valedictorian, perfect GPA, SAT 2250, national merit scholar, National AP Scholar. My younger, not as gifted, receives two merit scholarships from two separate private colleges, but the cost of attending of the two private colleges will still be more than that of a state university.

 

[NW-Bound]

About getting scholarships, here's another philosophy that my wife and I share.

One of my nieces tried very hard to get a scholarship, because her parents would not be able to send her to college. She did get a full scholarship, but the grueling time that she spent studying, I did not wish on my kids. Some people are gifted. Others are just over-achievers. So, I told my wife that we should be happy with seeing our children being reasonably successful in school and later in their career. The main thing is about obtaining happiness, and over-competitiveness is not good.

Yes, this coming from a guy who passed with the top grades to two colleges with entrance exams (not in this country of course and the exams were not multiple choices).

 

[Gumby]

North Chicago Community High School Test Scores - North Chicago, Illinois - IL

This is where I went to my first three years of high school. I can tell you that it has not changed in the 35 years since I left. Given a choice, I doubt most parents would want their children to attend. (My parents had no choice). And yet, I still received an education adequate to see me through the U.S. Naval Academy.

I think a properly motivated student, with adequate parental support, can receive a good education at virtually any public school. But, as some have already noted, it's your money and your choice, not mine.

 

[youbet]

I think a properly motivated student, with adequate parental support, can receive a good education at virtually any public school. But, as some have already noted, it's your money and your choice, not mine.

You can take that one step further....... a properly motivated student, with adequate parental support, can receive a good education with no formal school involved at all. Lincoln's b'day is coming up soon, isn't it? The kids of our home schooling friends are turning out to be top notch, informed and bright young citizens. Etc.

A bad school situation can actually make the job of educating your kids tougher than no school at all. I received really, really bad influence all day, everyday at my CPS high school.

Really Gumby, if you had kids and you lived in North Chicago and you could very, very easily afford to send those kids to an alternative school which, at least on paper, had much better outcomes, wouldn't you do it? Or would you insist they go to North Chicago High and be tough and gut it out like their dad even if they obviously might not be as smart, tough and motivated as dad? In other words, are you suggesting the "A Boy Named Sue" theory to toughening up those youngsters. Nothin' like a little fightin' in the blood and the mud and the gore to get a kid straight..........

 

[mb]

DW and I attended public schools and we did fine but we sent our kids to private schools for K-12. My guess is that it added 2-3 years to the time to FI. For comparison DW took several years off work and worked part time when the kids were small and that probably added 8-10 years to the time to FI so in those terms the cost of having kids was much higher that the cost of sending them to private schools. I'm now FI but not RE so I can't say that it added anytime to RE.

The other complication is that we live in Silicon Valley and there is a lot of competition to get into a "good" school district and that translates into higher real estate prices in those areas. The joke at one time was that the just-off-the-boat immigrants knew three words of English, "Cupertino School District."

We live in an average to good area. The local elementary school is rated 95% and is outstanding but the high school is only rated 55%. If you are motivated I think that you can get a very good education at the local high school but if not it is easy to "float by" and not get much of a education. At the private schools my experience is that you are not allowed to float by. Looking back I think that the kids would have been fine in the public schools but I don't regret paying the extra money.

Our house is valued at $800k according to Zillow. My guess is that an identical house near the highest rated high schools would probably cost $1.0M to $1.2M. Thus there is a trade. You might have to pay an extra $250k for a house to get into the best public schools in the area. That goes a long way toward the cost of private schools. (There is a fairly common practice of falsifying addresses to get into these schools. At one point the school districts were sending investigators to the address of record for the students to determine if they actually lived at that location.)

With regard to the OPs question, I doubt that I would pay for private schools if it added 20 years to FI unless the local schools were a "war zone" but I didn't have to make that decision. If that were the case I would probably try to find a different area with better public schools.

 

[Gone4Good]

Whatever happened to student aid, scholarships, jobs and loans? I think the idea that a parent should be an indentured servant so a child can skate by the first 22 years of life without having to lift a finger for themselves is a relatively new, and not necessarily positive, development.

 

[youbet]

Whatever happened to student aid, scholarships, jobs and loans? I think the idea that a parent should be an indentured servant so a child can skate by the first 22 years of life without having to lift a finger for themselves is a relatively new, and not necessarily positive, development.

Well, how are you going to handle it with your kids?

 

[Gumby]

Really Gumby, if you had kids and you lived in North Chicago and you could very, very easily afford to send those kids to an alternative school which, at least on paper, had much better outcomes, wouldn't you do it?

Since we never had children, it's academic, but I suspect I would have chosen to live in a nearby town with a better public school.

My post was intended merely to point out that one can go to a pretty "bad" public school and still receive a good eduction. Probably 95% of the people in the country live in a place with better schools than that, and I'll bet the proportion is even higher among the membership of this board. There seems to be an unspoken assumption in this thread that private school will always result in a better educational outcome than the local public school. I don't believe that's true. For most people, the local school will be just fine for the kids, even if it doesn't provide the necessary bragging rights for their parents.

 

[Gone4Good]

Well, how are you going to handle it with your kids?

I already took care of it in what I think is the best way possible.

But if it were me, my yearly conversation would be "If you study hard and get grades good enough for a scholarship, I'll help you go to the best schools in the country. If you study less hard, there are some good state schools that I'll help you out with. But that means you may not be able to go where you really want to when the time comes. If you study even less hard than that, then I'm sorry, but the world needs ditch diggers too."

 

[NW-Bound]

I feel like adding here that in some countries outside of the US, the prestigious colleges or universities are public, not private. These public schools have tough written and oral entrance exams, and with a quota of how many freshmen they admit each year. The ones that fail to get in, well, they will have to pay to attend elsewhere. The ones that get into the prestigious schools, well, they get a stipend.

Kids work hard to get into these prestigious schools because of the guaranteed good life that follows. I much prefer the US society, where there are more opportunities, and where even the average person can make a decent living. And if one measures success with a financial yardstick, the best entrepreneurs did not learn much of their skill in school.

 

[Bestwifeever]

I already took care of it in what I think is the best way possible....

As do we all.