27 year old dislikes working 40 hours a week

Too young to work

Dryer sheet aficionado
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I've been lurking here on these forums for about 3 years, regularly reading posts. Lots of good info and good stories. Plenty of great people!

I decided to finally sign up because I had some thoughts on moving to a new home, but I'll get into that in a different thread.

I'm 27 and the wife is 28. We have no kids and are not planning on any. They are too much work and cost too much. Plus, we barely take care of ourselves, how can we care for a kid! We both work full time at the same job with good benefits. We've been saving aggressively for about 5 years, and hope to semi-retire at age 37, and 38. With your help, we will hopefully pull this off.

And a final note. Working stinks. If work was only 2 or 3 days a week, for 5 or 6 hours I would not mind it at all. 40 hours is way too much time. Between the rest of chores and all of the stuff that life is, there is no space for that much work.

Feel free to ask questions! I'll post my other thread about moving shortly.
 
I agree, work stinks. I think it would suck less if I could work out to get two 4-week vacations a year and am aiming for that goal starting next year. This year I'm taking one vacation, for a bit more than 6 weeks, but I think it would be better to space them out.

Welcome!
 
I've been lurking here on these forums for about 3 years, regularly reading posts. Lots of good info and good stories. Plenty of great people!

I decided to finally sign up because I had some thoughts on moving to a new home, but I'll get into that in a different thread.

I'm 27 and the wife is 28. We have no kids and are not planning on any. They are too much work and cost too much. Plus, we barely take care of ourselves, how can we care for a kid! We both work full time at the same job with good benefits. We've been saving aggressively for about 5 years, and hope to semi-retire at age 37, and 38. With your help, we will hopefully pull this off.

And a final note. Working stinks. If work was only 2 or 3 days a week, for 5 or 6 hours I would not mind it at all. 40 hours is way too much time. Between the rest of chores and all of the stuff that life is, there is no space for that much work.

Feel free to ask questions! I'll post my other thread about moving shortly.

I'm 46, and it seems like yesterday that I was 27 like you. The time seems to fly by. As a guy with two kids and a wife who was a stay at home mom for 14+ years making NO income, all I have to say is that you SHOULD be able to semi-retire in 10 years. Not sure what your income is, but two kids take a LOT of income. With my wife's lost wages over 14+ years and my income that was spent on both kids (kids are now 16 and 12), had all of that been invested, we would be a multi-millionaire family right now. Of course for us, the kids are worth it, but I understand that children aren't for everyone. Point is that you should be able to invest half your income or more and get yourself to be able to semi-retire within 10 years and even finally completely retire soon after that.

I hope you do it! I KNOW it can be done. Hating the work you do is no fun. Good luck!
 
I'm 51 and heartily agree that working 40 hour weeks sucks.

I switched to 32 hours/week a decade ago. That extra day off is GOLD... Definitely worth the 20% paycut. I get all my chores (laundry, housework, groceries) out of the way and can spend the weekend doing things I enjoy, and dealing with the kids.

People talk about how expensive kids are... I'm not sure I completely agree. Daycare is pricey when they're little. (Assuming you don't have a SAHM). But that's temporary. Hand me downs are good. We take full advantage of hand me down toys, clothes, etc. The only big expense with them now is the annual funding of their 529's... Like everything else in your budget - you can spend a lot, or be frugal... even with kids' expenses.
 
Welcome! I also hated working in my 20s, but my perspective changed in my 30s. I'm not quite sure what happened, but I think I became more confident in myself and was able to take more charge of my life at work and make it more tolerable. Plus the more I saw my net worth grow, the more motivated I was to make it grow by adding to it every year.

Hang in there, and develop a plan to reach your goals so that you can have the option to quit early if you want to. Good luck!
 
I think you are too young to have this negative view about work. I would suggest not nurturing this though too much. Try to find the silver lining when you can.

You are almost certain to have long way to do, and by having a negative attitude towards work will make the journey much more difficult.

It is good that you have a plan to FIRE soon. Work towards it but enjoy the journey as well. Best of luck.
 
No disagreement on your notion that working less is a great option to have. I did want to chime in that I do enjoy my work much more in my thirties than I did in my twenties. For most of us, true "financial independence" requires many decades of sustained effort, so finding happiness in your job is helpful.

SIS
 
+1

I think you are too young to have this negative view about work. I would suggest not nurturing this though too much. Try to find the silver lining when you can.

You are almost certain to have long way to do, and by having a negative attitude towards work will make the journey much more difficult.

It is good that you have a plan to FIRE soon. Work towards it but enjoy the journey as well. Best of luck.
 
What do you do that is not so interesting?

I am a custodian. The job fell into my lap, so it became a matter of convenience. I get paid very well for what I do. Great benefits too! It's not necessarily the work I hate so much, but the amount of time I spend there. That and the fact that you HAVE to be there at a certain time every day without exception. Back when I started part time, work didn't bother me a bit. I like most of the people I work with, but it's also a job where I'm alone for a good portion of the night. It gives me quiet time, which I like, but not so much of it. I'm much happier working an independent job than being surrounded by people the whole time.

40 hours really is a lot of time. We don't have kids and don't plan on any, and yet I feel I have so little time outside of work to actually enjoy life. When you add up all the chores, we're not left with so much time. Work, sleep (I need over 8 hours or I'm groggy all day), packing lunch, cleaning, showering, and all the little stuff really only leaves an hour or two at best each week day. I don't work out right now, an I've tried getting it into my schedule. I end up mentally exhausted each time after a week or so. I feel burned out as it takes even more of that little free time.

Does it seem like I'm lazy or whining? Maybe, but if I can set myself some goals and get out of full time work much sooner, why not? I say early semi retire and then quit after a few years, but I may end up liking working part time and decide to stay much longer than I'm currently anticipating.

Going back to school... Was a thought for a while, but I've come to accept I have issues in which this is not an option. I have a very hard time staying focused and composing my thoughts. School was difficult for me, and the college was too. Ultimately, I decided that saving was a better option than going to school. I don't know what I would really want to do any how.
 
How much you will need to spend per month to live.
How much money you will need to retire?

Answer the first question and the second can be estimated.
 
If 40 hr weeks are not pleasant, consider the military. On call 24/7, regular hours when I was in the Army were rarely less than 70+. Then all the fun of prparing for IG inspections, parades, alerts will fully round out the week.

Did a few stints on research vessels ar sea, usual fare was 12 hours on 12 hours off, 35 to 40 days at sea, two or three days in port.

Some field work in Alaska for 4 to 5 months at a time, usual days were 10 to 12 hours in the hills, plus prep work before and and cleanup after. Good bit of hiking involved over tundra. You got to do it to appreciate the fun.

Maybe a non-office j*b will be more appealing.

I'm sure Nords can fill in the Navy's casual schedule.
 
If 40 hr weeks are not pleasant, consider the military. On call 24/7, regular hours when I was in the Army were rarely less than 70+. Then all the fun of prparing for IG inspections, parades, alerts will fully round out the week.

Did a few stints on research vessels ar sea, usual fare was 12 hours on 12 hours off, 35 to 40 days at sea, two or three days in port.

Some field work in Alaska for 4 to 5 months at a time, usual days were 10 to 12 hours in the hills, plus prep work before and and cleanup after. Good bit of hiking involved over tundra. You got to do it to appreciate the fun.

Maybe a non-office j*b will be more appealing.

I'm sure Nords can fill in the Navy's casual schedule.

Sounds like a nightmare. Thanks for your service!

I enjoy physical work, don't think I would ever do an office job.
 
How much you will need to spend per month to live.
How much money you will need to retire?

Answer the first question and the second can be estimated.

I've already estimated the numbers many times. I don't have them with me, but about 2600 to 3000 a month plus health insurance is what I'm looking at right now.
 
I've already estimated the numbers many times. I don't have them with me, but about 2600 to 3000 a month plus health insurance is what I'm looking at right now.

36K a year plus taxes so say 40K a year. Using the 4% withdrawal rule you would need 1 million invested.
 
36K a year plus taxes so say 40K a year. Using the 4% withdrawal rule you would need 1 million invested.
+1

And please note that studies show you could only withdraw $40,000 + an increase each year to keep up with inflation for 30 years before your chances of running out of money begin to increase significantly. You'd probably do better with a withdrawal rate around 3%, meaning you'd need closer to $1.3 million invested.
 
If work was only 2 or 3 days a week, for 5 or 6 hours I would not mind it at all. 40 hours is way too much time. Between the rest of chores and all of the stuff that life is, there is no space for that much work...
As much as I liked my work, I did not like to do 40 hrs/week either. But I found myself doing 50-60 hrs/week in a self-imposed manner, when I was with a small business of which I was a founder of. When that business folded, I worked part-time doing consulting work with the hours like you wanted, and with a month or two off at a time too. I did that for 7 years. Not too many people have that chance, I know.

Businesses do not like their employees to have that much freedom, however. They want to own your butt, and have you on their beck and call. There have been much talk about people sharing a job, a desk, etc..., but I doubt if that will happen.

So, at the age of 27, you have not paid your dues, and must tough it out. Most of us geezers could not afford to quit until our 50s.

Cheers.
 
Most of us geezers could not afford to quit until our 50s.

Don't think of yourself as a geezer, more of a child or young adult of retirement.

I should mention my pension estimate for 10 years from now will be about 650 to 700 a month if I took it immediately when quitting full time work. I already have close to 8 years of service in. Of course there will be taxes and the 10% penalty, but that will reduce the monthly draw down. My wife should also have a smaller pension at that point too. Maybe 300 to 400.
 
All I can say is start making your plans now. I elt the same way at your age and saved my pennies. I am pushing 40 now and climbing the cube walls, but at least I have been accumulating capital and at some point I will walk away from this nonsense and do something better with my life.
 
I have never heard of a pension that can be drawn at age 38.
 
Compared to the real "geezers", I am young and should feel young. Too bad I don't feel it. Perhaps all those long working hours finally show their effects.

So, I have also been reading about people who goof off early in their 20s and 30s to have some fun. They will have to go back to work eventually, as many of them already did. It may cost them the time they could have worked to build up their savings, so they may have to work longer now. But then, they also are used to unconventional lifestyles, and do not have the needs of conventional people like myself. So, they may still be able to retire early.

Many different paths through life, and one has to chose his own.
 
This feeling may be because of my surroundings. Dad is self employed and takes off when he feels like it, mon works part time, sister doesn't work for no good reason, two cousins live at home off their parents and barely work... Maybe in jealous a little bit. I watch all these people around me enjoying all the extra hours home from work, and they seem to be doing alright, why am I working so much?
 
People talk about how expensive kids are... I'm not sure I completely agree.

1) Food - Our grocery budget is $600 a month, and the kids easily take half that each month. $300 invested each month for 18 years at 8% return = $131,220.88...and that's just for groceries! That amount is what I'll have less in retirement.

2) Dental, vision, and other medical - We pay extra for insurance because we have a family. My daughter's orthodontia cost over $10,000 out of pocket for us because she needed everything under the sun, early wisdom teeth extraction and a minor surgery. Son's out of pocket was about half that. - $15,000.

3) Athletics - We live in a pay to play school district. My daughter is a three-sport athlete which is $150 per sport per year ($450). My son is in middle school and currently only a two-sport athlete, but he will be a three-sport athlete and perhaps even a four-sport athlete when he enters high school ($300 a year now and perhaps $600 a year in high school). We also have to give money to the boosters for each sport which is another $30 per sport (that's another $150 right now). On top of all that, we buy sweats for cross country and track and then they have to buy the uniform top. Then, this past fall, my daughter had a serious running injury that after insurance ended up costing us $1,000 out of pocket. Oh, and there's the time my son broke his thumb doing a backflip on our couch. Conservatively this will end up being $6,000 by the time they are done with high school.

4) Band - Both my kids are in band. Trumpets and clarinets are expensive not just to buy but also to maintain. Giving money to the band boosters is expensive. Only because my daughter is able to use my wife's old clarinet (which cost $300 to overhaul), we're probably about $1500 into instruments and reeds for the clarinet.

5) Lost wages - My wife was a stay at home mom for more than 14 years. She left a $47,000 a year job at the beginning of that with big raises likely to come. $47,000 a year (not giving her a raise) times 14 = $658,000. Conservatively I'll up that to $700,000. Let's say we invested HALF that amount for the last 14 years ($25,000 per year for 14 years). At 8% return, that's $580,373, and that would take us up just to today for me at age 46. Let's now not add to that and see what that turns into by the time I'm 60 when I want to retire - $1,778,097.74.

6) Bigger house. Could be a wash as we could easily spend the same for a house. Does cost more to heat and cool this bigger house, but I'll keep this as a wash. Though, we did pick a house in a great school system and we pay big taxes for that...we would likely not have done so if we didn't have children.

7) Family summer pool membership for $500 that we wouldn't have gotten otherwise and then diving team for my son for another $100. All told this will end up being about $8,000.

8) Clothes for them. No way to even calculate this, but I'll say easily $10,000 total for them both over the course of 18 years. $10,000

9) Gifts at birthdays and Christmas. $100 on average for each kid for both Christmas and birthday (and it's probably a little more when adding in the birthday parties we had for them when they were younger). That's $7,200.

10) Cell phones for the family. Our family plan costs about $200 a month, so $100 a month of that is for the kids...actually I'll be very conservative here and say that if we didn't have kids maybe we'd get unlimited everything and pay just $40 less per month than we do now. They haven't had cell phones the whole time, but I can see paying for them through college for them both, so that's about $4,800 difference.

11) My daughter just turned 16. We will be getting a used car for her to use soon. That's perhaps $4,000. The big cost though is the insurance we will have to pay. I'll just add $3,000 to that cost, but it will likely be more.

12) Vacations cost more. Over 18 years for both of them, easily we will have spent $5,000 more than we would with just the two of us, and that's being conservative.

13) College - Fortunately my daughter has already scored high enough on the practice ACT and SAT that she took as a sophomore to easily get a full academic ride to several state school here in Ohio (they have published criteria), and she will duplicate that when she takes the tests for real next year as a junior, but she might go elsewhere as she doesn't necessarily want to go to those schools. My son performs similarly in school and could do that as well, and he has an outside shot at getting an athletic scholarship too. We've always said some of the burden of college will be on them either through their own working or loans in addition to any scholarships they might receive. I figure we could be lucky enough to get out of it with just paying about $20,000 total for both kids (and I think we're luckier than most with the likely scholarships they will get).

I could go on and on and on (summer camps, allowance, money here and there for all kinds of things). Fortunately for me, I realized this early on and decided to have children anyway, and they are worth every penny and then some. If I add up all that (which was all arrived at conservatively and didn't include everything) and don't count investing any of that, that's roughly $783,093. If I invest even just a portion of my wife's lost income, then we are over $2,000,000. Yes, some don't stay a stay at home mom that long, but then you need to factor in paying for childcare, and again, I didn't include everything nor did I invest all that money from the time it would start to be spent. A normal family with decent but not great professional-level income (two college-educated people making typical college-level salaries to the tune of over $100,000 per year total for both but under $150,000) can easily be out $2,000,000-$3,000,000 over the course of cradle to college graduation for a couple of kids if investing all the money spent on them including any lost wages for a stay at home parent.

You can find all sorts of estimates out there ranging from $300,000 (not including college) to over $2,000,000, but since I'm an investor, my amount is easily on the upper end.

Since "a lot" is subjective, that can't be considered "a lot" just generally, but to me that's a lot.
 
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