DW and I disagree on timing of FIRE

[Sunset]

....
Girls college is completely funded. I am of the philosophy: one car, one degree, one wedding........

I am confident that our financial situation can allow us to RE now, but DW is a doesn't trust the stock market. We have been going over the numbers and having the same discussion with the same outcome for over a year now.

......

Can you adopt me ?

Seriously, could it be that you are invested in strange unusual things in the stock market which is what makes her nervous ?

How about dividends, since you have a big stash, can you say that your dividends would pay for a large percentage of your annual expenses ?

If you can show they pay for 100% of annual expenses, then how can your wife argue that ?

 

[2017ish]

Get your employment contract looked at by a lawyer. Most non-compete clauses are unenforceable, as they can't take away your ability to make a living.

Yes, the only valid "non-compete" agreements are the ones that come with a big payout and are for a set time only.

They are paying you to not compete for that time.

All depends upon the jurisdiction. In my experience , most of the noncompetes I've analyzed for clients have been enforceable in whole or in part--predominantly in flyover states.

Note that RobbieB is from California, which has statutory language consistent with his post. Naggz is from Canada, which I don't know anything about....

 

[daylatedollarshort]

I am confident that our financial situation can allow us to RE now, but DW is a doesn't trust the stock market. We have been going over the numbers and having the same discussion with the same outcome for over a year now.

Can you retire with investing less in stocks? Would that make your DW more comfortable? We more or less use a matching strategy, plus we have some hobby job income that reduces our portfolio drawdown.

 

[Valley fisher]

OK, so I am a fairly specialized physician and my non-compete applies only to my field. For all intensive purposes, I am not qualified to do anything other than my current job. Yes, I could do insurance, legal, and possibly consulting work, but that doesn't interest me. What I really want is to RE. If I could do what I am doing now,part time, I would consider doing it for a few more years.

You never know what the future holds. The market may crash, or you may become terminally ill. I am in a field of medicine where I see some really horrible things happening to people, some who are younger than me and plenty who are in their mid-fifties. Even closer to home, my anatomy partner from medical school died of a degenerative brain disease at the age of 50. All joking aside, I tell my DW that every day that I work is a healthy day of retirement that I have lost. More discussions about RE with DW to come. Thank you all for your input. I will keep you posted.

 

[EastWest Gal]

I'm with you on this. Give DW time. Make a list of pros and cons. Remind her that time is more valuable than money. And much more limited.

Also, your non-compete might be invalid. If the company reorganized and you had to go back to full time, did you get a new contract? Was there any breach of contract? That would invalidate the non-compete. Also if there is a shortage of your specialty, your non-compete might not be enforceable.

https://www.avvo.com/legal-guides/u...ete-agreement-may-be-unenforceable-in-florida

However, if you can bring DW around, I say go for full RE, then who cares about the non-compete? Life is too short to do something you no neither want nor need to do. I too have lost interest and become bored with most things medical. I know what you're going through.


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[Spudd]

OK, so I am a fairly specialized physician and my non-compete applies only to my field. For all intensive purposes, I am not qualified to do anything other than my current job. Yes, I could do insurance, legal, and possibly consulting work, but that doesn't interest me. What I really want is to RE. If I could do what I am doing now,part time, I would consider doing it for a few more years.

Have you tried telling your job that you would like to go part time, and (if necessary) you are thinking of quitting if you cannot go part time? Maybe they would provide you the needed flexibility.

 

[W2R]

DW is worried about the unknown expenses yet to come

DW also feels that we can not "retire" in the traditional sense until the girls go off to college.

Is it even remotely possible that your DW has some valid concerns? I think the two of you need to sit down and figure this out. No wishful thinking allowed!

Math is math, and pretty straightforward. Both of you sound like intelligent, competent people. Surely you can go through the numbers together and come to some sort of agreement.

Marriage is a team effort. Time to pull together as a team.

 

[pb4uski]

You could TELL your employer that you are unhappy and want to go part-time and if they can't agree that you will quit and wait out the 2 years if necessary. They will probably quickly figure out that 50% of Valley Fisher is better than no Valley Fisher at all. If they refuse your request, then tender your resignation for the earliest possible date and if they want you to stay longer then use that to get them to waive or reduce your non-compete. If you feel a need to work, then find a job that suits you outside your non-compete area if necessary.

For your DW, keep explaining the numbers to her. If your equity exposure is a concern then you might offer to change your AA to a more benign mix or ... egads, I can't believe I'm typing this... buy an immediate annuity that provides you some amount of steady income.

In all of this, you need to keep beating the drum of how unhappy you are with work and that some sort of change needs to be made for your mental sanity and that it is unfair that she is standing in the way when you are the one who has to go into that toxic environment every day.

 

[highlow65]

I personally think this tends to run sexist at times. Most people don't think twice when a woman retires early, but give you the hairy eyebrow when a man does and their spouse continues working. Its your life and you need to do what makes you happy, but for me damn the consequences. I have cut down to daily supervising my coffee shops while my wife prefers to almost live there. To each their own.

 

[Ronnieboy]

Have you tried telling your job that you would like to go part time, and (if necessary) you are thinking of quitting if you cannot go part time? Maybe they would provide you the needed flexibility.

You could TELL your employer that you are unhappy and want to go part-time and if they can't agree that you will quit and wait out the 2 years if necessary. They will probably quickly figure out that 50% of Valley Fisher is better than no Valley Fisher at all. If they refuse your request, then tender your resignation for the earliest possible date and if they want you to stay longer then use that to get them to waive or reduce your non-compete. If you feel a need to work, then find a job that suits you outside your non-compete area if necessary.

For your DW, keep explaining the numbers to her. If your equity exposure is a concern then you might offer to change your AA to a more benign mix or ... egads, I can't believe I'm typing this... buy an immediate annuity that provides you some amount of steady income.

In all of this, you need to keep beating the drum of how unhappy you are with work and that some sort of change needs to be made for your mental sanity and that it is unfair that she is standing in the way when you are the one who has to go into that toxic environment every day.

+1

 

[6miths]

I am of the philosophy: one car, one degree, one wedding.

You don't have to adopt me but you are welcome to my 4 kids! I'm down with the 'one degree' and thanks to the market they could probably each do two if they want but the only wedding I planned to pay for was mine. Ok, I may be getting soft in my old age and offer up some cash as a gift that they can do with as they please but I'm really hoping they have learned enough not to spend it on subsidizing a big wedding. As far as four cars and insurance for each of them

As far as the retiring problem. If the numbers are ironclad (and you could always go back to some form of gainful employment if the world collapses), then I agree with those who say that you shouldn't kill yourself. And when it comes down to it, that is what you are doing if you are in a bad job that you don't have to be in. Give it time, try various angles....

OTOH, the part-time option sounds like it might work and can be refreshing enough to allow you to put in enough extra time to satisfy DW. And who knows, you may find that you actually like your job again if you can take it at a more leisurely pace.

 

[simple girl]

Have you asked her what it would take for her to feel comfortable with you quitting your job?

I wonder if she just has a very low risk tolerance, and no matter what you say, she won't feel comfortable with you pulling the trigger. Perhaps some marriage counseling would be a good idea. It could help you understand each others' fears better, so that you can come to a better meeting point.

Time is short, as you know. I hope that you can find a way to help her feel comfortable with you quitting.

 

[Hutch111]

I do what she says

+1

 

[Cobra9777]

Sounds like you just need to give her more time to get used to the idea... and comfortable that you've covered every reasonable contingency and the numbers are still rock solid.

I retired at 52, but I first started floating the idea to DW a few years before that. At the time, we had one in high school and one that just started college. DW was skeptical; she thought we should wait until both were out of college and all unknown expenses were behind us. I showed her my analysis and asked her questions like, "What else can you think of that I should include?" She's not into financial stuff at all, but she liked being involved in the what-if's.

Ultimately, we compromised... I worked a few more years, padded the nestegg, and retired with one out of college and one about half way. By then, she had become comfortable that the numbers would work, but more importantly, she could clearly see the physical and emotional effects of my toxic job situation. She was encouraging me to hang up the spurs about a year before I did.

The plan had been for both of us to retire, but DW decided to keep working. She enjoys her job. It's the center of her social life and very low stress. Also, she doesn't have the same level of interest in hobbies and other activities that I do, so she has struggled a bit with what retirement "means" for her. She likes the daily routine and social interaction. I think her own attitude about work and retirement entered the equation back when I first floated the idea.

Give it a bit more time and find some middle ground where everybody is comfortable with the decision.

 

[travelover]

Another factor rarely verbalized, is that retirement can be a big status reduction, and being a doc or a Mrs. Doc carries a lot of status. Giving that up is hard when you have sacrificed to attain it.

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

Get your employment contract looked at by a lawyer. Most non-compete clauses are unenforceable, as they can't take away your ability to make a living.

^ This x1000. It could very well be the best couple hundred bucks you could spend. As stated, they are difficult to enforce and thus most companies won't waste their time trying to do so...they are slowing falling out of favor since they are so difficult to enforce.

As to your DW's thoughts...well, only you know your DW but *if* my DW had issues with me being retired (and basically I get brow beaten to go back to w*rk) then I am going to have quite a bit of resentment and that will make life very unpleasant for both of us.

 

[nash031]

Get some more numbers together and just show them to her without any pressure.Does she love her job? At 14 your kids need driving everywhere and lots of supervision, offer to take that over along with a bigger share of the housework. Maybe she could try working for a year or 2 and see how she feels about it then. College is fine but both of you quitting now would give you much quality time with kids...14 YO girls are entering a rough stage. It might make a huge difference in the peacefulness of your life. Instead of making it about money and being "bored" emphasis the positive difference it could make with your kids last 4 years at home.

I think this is a great answer, one that DW and I explore all the time and I think she's onboard with. I may retire in three years, and do the SAHD thing (which is a well-paying position in itself!) while she continues doing the work she loves. Her income along with my pension will more than meet our requirements allowing our stash to grow (albeit with much less going directly in).

I think I'd try to discuss the value of you not working if she wants to continue and see if that arrangement works. If it does, she may quickly tire of leaving every morning and be more open to the idea of ER herself.

 

[nwsteve]

Get your employment contract looked at by a lawyer. Most non-compete clauses are unenforceable, as they can't take away your ability to make a living.

+1
Unless you are working in a very unique arena, the two year restriction is almost all you need to make the non-compete unenforceable.
Worked many years in executive search and most contracts we saw were not enforceable and the prior employer waived any rights. You have not shared a location but in California, I believe they have ruled that only senior management is bound by a noncompete
Nwsteve

 

[medved]

Maybe DW would feel more comfortable if you were to purchase a fixed income annuity or deferred income annuity, and thereby achieve "certainty" of a future income stream rather than being at the mercy of the stock market?

 

[socca]

Math is math, and pretty straightforward.

Responsible budgeting involves allocating a certain amount to reserves, and what is a comfortable cushion for one person may not be for another. However, if the OP points out that not only is every known unknown covered, but there is a substantial reserve for unknown unknowns, then perhaps he will make some headway.

 

[Music Lover]

I don't buy it. Insisting that a spouse work when they don't need to is coercive and corrosive to the relationship. The OP is supposed to suck it up and be unhappy until he gets permission to do what makes him happy so his wife doesn't have to go though the hard work of understanding their true financial position. Were the sexes reversed in this discussion, I think the guy would be seen as a bully.

+1

 

[copyright1997reloaded]

Thanks to all for the advice. More details:

Girls college is completely funded. I am of the philosophy: one car, one degree, one wedding. If they want more than that, they can pay for it (or at least think that way. They have no idea (and I'm not telling them) that they will likely inherit enough money to allow them to be beach bums if they choose to for the rest of their lives).

I am confident that our financial situation can allow us to RE now, but DW is a doesn't trust the stock market. We have been going over the numbers and having the same discussion with the same outcome for over a year now.

I worked part time for a few years and really enjoyed having more "me" time and time to do all the things around the house that needed to be done (which now consume my weekends). Unfortunately, my job situation had a big shake-up about a year ago and now I am back full time without an option to go back part time. My non-compete clause prohibits me from finding part time work elsewhere in my area for two years, should I leave the organization.

Last, DW thinks I will be bored in retirement. I'm not worried about that and have many interests/hobbies outside of work.

I retired when my child turned 7 years old. I have a decent traditional pension (enough to get by one) for which I made my child my joint annuitant (in case something happened to me). In addition, I had (have) an investment portfolio. Between the two, I decided it was good enough to provide for my child.

I had many people whom I worked with tell me they couldn't believe that I would give up my J*b given college years ahead. My response was that if I were to wait until college was completed, that was another 13 or so years! No way since I was FIRE ready.

Part of the reason for retiring was that I was traveling a lot. I would be home only about half the time, and I felt I was missing out on my child's growing up. About six months after I left work, my child developed a serious unknown GI related illness. I am extremely thankful that I was home during this time and able to devote a lot of time and effort on it. [He is much better now.]

Since then, I've gone back to work, but not because I had to. I started teaching part time at a local college, and since then have gone to full time. I love being home, get to spend a lot of time with my child, but part of the reason in going full time (besides the health care) is to try and instill work values.

One suggestion I would have if your spouse is retirement shy due to not trusting the stock market: Divest some of the assets into cash equivalents, enough to provide 2-3 years of expenses. While this many lower your long term returns, the cash safety net will help your souse (and you) sleep better at night when the next rough downturn comes (and it will). I left my j*b in the midst of the great recession of 2009. It was only the cash flow from my pension PLUS a couple years worth of expenses (w/o the pension) in cash & equivalents (some great Penfed CD's at the time) that gave me the confidence to go for it even though my portfolio was getting whacked daily. (In fact, I was buying equities during the Spring of 2009.)

 

[doneat54]

Well my wife has had 30 years to protest my plans (that is how long I have been saying I plan to retire at 55!). When she finally about 3 years ago said "You are really going to do this? Show me the math." I had my summary spreadsheet ready to go. She then said she wanted to hire an FA to review my plan, which we did, just met with him the second time last week. He has made some good recommendations (and yes, he is for fee, doesn't get a % of anything).

Sadly I will no quite make my goal of retiring at 55. Due to megacorp re-structuring and severance packages, my job is gone at the end of the year and I will retire one month before my 55th birthday..... ;-)

But regarding the OP's DW's concerns, you simply can't plan for all the "unknowns". IMO retirement planning must be able to address the "expected", allow for adjustments should things change, and perhaps be a little "fat" in case of the unexpected. But you simply can't predict and plan for everything.

 

[ivinsfan]

I don't buy it. Insisting that a spouse work when they don't need to is coercive and corrosive to the relationship. The OP is supposed to suck it up and be unhappy until he gets permission to do what makes him happy so his wife doesn't have to go though the hard work of understanding their true financial position. Were the sexes reversed in this discussion, I think the guy would be seen as a bully.

I don't agree, now there have been posters where the guy has the only job and his spouse has never worked outside the home and taken the position that he can't retire and join her at home. This borders on abusive and bullying.

In this case they both work and contribute and the spouse is uneasy about them suddenly pulling the plug.Continue to talk and give her some time to adjust to the situation,sometimes fear of the unknown can override numbers on a sheet of paper. Another 6 or 12 months of work by the OP while they talk things over isn't unreasonable IMO. After all his wife is still showing up for work everyday too.

 

[travelover]

I don't agree........

You have the right to be wrong.