DW and I disagree on timing of FIRE

[Bigdawg]

"We have been going over the numbers and having the same discussion with the same outcome for over a year now."


So NOT suddenly pulling the plug. How much time in enough notice to your partner?

 

[Teacher Terry]

After a year she had time to adjust and I would retire and let her decide if she wants to keep working or not. None of us know how much time we have left.

 

[ivinsfan]

In the course of a lifetime commitment and raising a family a year isn't a really long time. But if the OP has shared the financials openly and has talked over the pros and cons, I think just saying I'm sorry you're still not completely comfortable with it, but I'm planning on retiring on my next birthday or Jan 1 or whatever date, and I'm certain we'll be fine.Feel free to follow me anytime you want to. Maybe the spouse has a serious case of OMY and will always want OMY until she has finally had enough.

 

[ivinsfan]

You have the right to be wrong.

Good thing we aren't a couple

 

[Milton]

Is it even remotely possible that your DW has some valid concerns? I think the two of you need to sit down and figure this out. No wishful thinking allowed! Math is math, and pretty straightforward. Both of you sound like intelligent, competent people. Surely you can go through the numbers together and come to some sort of agreement.Marriage is a team effort. Time to pull together as a team.

Good advice.

Just because one financial advisor says you are good to go doesn't necessarily make it so. For a decision of this magnitude you need to really crunch the numbers.

Do something like this: keep track of all your actual expenses for at least six months (12 would be better). Then add in, say, 20% extra to cover unforeseen contingencies. Cross check the monthly or annual figure against your respective passive income stream: which you can reduce by 20% to guard against a possible stock market crash, dividend cuts, etc.

If the above exercise confirms the advisor's opinion, presumably the evidence - including the built-in buffers - will be sufficient to persuade your wife. If not, she is just being irrational (after your years of marriage together, you will know how to best deal with that situation).

Many wives who have an issue with it would have said "whatever you think is best is fine with me" which means "please don't". That she is actually saying "No" is at least a good thing, you know what she really thinks.

Agreed.

I don't buy it. Insisting that a spouse work when they don't need to is coercive and corrosive to the relationship. The OP is supposed to suck it up and be unhappy until he gets permission to do what makes him happy so his wife doesn't have to go though the hard work of understanding their true financial position. Were the sexes reversed in this discussion, I think the guy would be seen as a bully.

+2

You need to come to a mutual agreement or your marriage will be strained. You can run the numbers fifty different ways and if she's not comfortable it's best for your marriage to keep working.

I don't buy that. What you are effectively saying is that one spouse has absolute veto power over the other's life, regardless of any logic.

While I certainly agree with you that a good marriage is all about compromise, yielding to a 'my way or the highway' approach is quite inconsistent with that.

Maybe DW would feel more comfortable if you were to purchase a fixed income annuity or deferred income annuity, and thereby achieve "certainty" of a future income stream rather than being at the mercy of the stock market?

A good suggestion. Although that strategy is probably not great from a strictly financial perspective, if it buys consensus on ER it could be a price worth paying.

I worked part time for a few years and really enjoyed having more "me" time and time to do all the things around the house that needed to be done (which now consume my weekends).... DW thinks I will be bored in retirement. I'm not worried about that and have many interests/hobbies outside of work.

Your part-time experience was a kind of 'dry run' for retirement. Point out how happy and fulfilled you were during that 'rehearsal' period.

 

[haha]

I am burned out and bored at work. NO job satisfaction and frankly, the money isn't worth it. Financial advisor says we can generate more than enough cash to live on without touching principal. I am 54, DW 56. Both of us work, but I am ready to pull the plug, she is not. We have 2 girls at home (14yo twins) and DW is worried about the unknown expenses yet to come and feels I/we should stick it out a few more years. DW also feels that we can not "retire" in the traditional sense until the girls go off to college. What do you do when you and your spouse disagree on timing of FIRE?

Remember the book "Getting to Yes"? A key concept in this excellent negotiation manual by some academics is to always know one's next best thing to a negotiated settlement.

In a marriage, there often is not any next best thing when a spouse plays chicken with you. One spouse will always perceive that he or she has more at risk in a divorce, and one must realize that divorce is a frequent "resolution" to standoffs in a marriage negotiation.

And no matter what planners or ER members or your father in law or anyone else says, you cannot really place justifiable odds on any of the possible outcomes of retiring, or of continuing on the job.

My observation is that divorce and young children is a mess, and often particularly a mess for fathers. If this were truly a showdown, I would continue to work, maybe at a job that annoys you less. This is no guarantee of peace, but it may help.

Ha

 

[Milton]

I am a fairly specialized physician and my non-compete applies only to my field.... I could do insurance, legal, and possibly consulting work, but that doesn't interest me. What I really want is to RE.

Perhaps your best option is to settle for doing medical-legal work for the next few years. I appreciate it's not your preference, but at least it's part-time, lucrative, and doesn't require dealing with patients. Plus it will automatically wind down in the not-too-distant future, as most credible lawyers will not seek expert opinions from a physician who hasn't been in active practice in more than three or four years (don't tell your wife that part).

For all intensive purposes, I am not qualified to do anything other than my current job.

Please tell us that malaprop was causes by an [-]illiterate[/-] overzealous spellchecking program.

 

[Car-Guy]

Maybe you could get her to agree to let you retire if your savings stays above a certain "agreed upon level". If it doesn't, you'll agree to go back to work, after 2 or more years.

Otherwise, suck it up and live with it. You can't win! If you don't believe me, just ask your DW who is right!

 

[highlow65]

Just an observation not knowing her, but she wouldn't be the first person who got some satisfaction or validation from being a doctors spouse. Might not be the same pretige being married to a retiree.

 

[Aerides]

See here's the thing. When DH and I were first talking early retirement, we had an age in mind. When we started getting real with planning, we had set financial goals and tracked our progress. Once we got within 2-3 years of that number, we talked more details. When we were very close, we agreed to OMY, and then we RE'd together when we were both "there". I was very up front with my husband that I would not be able to deal well with him RE'ing much before me, but that was no surprise to him.

Is this a case of "we've always planned and she's changing her mind" or.... "the plans were vague but I've decided I'm ready now"...

 

[harley]

Please tell us that malaprop was causes by an [-]illiterate[/-] overzealous spellchecking program.

I think that it's probably a mute point now. Even though it bothers you, I could care less. Really, it's all one in the same. When you feel the need to point these things out, you need to nip it in the butt. You shouldn't let it phase you. If you think you can change the way people say things, you've got another thing coming. Anyway, I'm sure it was said on accident. Sometimes you just have to except it. But you did ax about it. I'll be waiting for the response with baited breath.

 

[Car-Guy]

I think that it's probably a mute point now. Even though it bothers you, I could care less. Really, it's all one in the same. When you feel the need to point these things out, you need to nip it in the butt. You shouldn't let it phase you. If you think you can change the way people say things, you've got another thing coming. Anyway, I'm sure it was said on accident. Sometimes you just have to except it. But you did ax about it. I'll be waiting for the response with baited breath.

 

[pb4uski]

....For all intensive purposes, I am not qualified to do anything other than my current job......

....Please tell us that malaprop was causes by an [-]illiterate[/-] overzealous spellchecking program.

I think that it's probably a mute point now. ....you need to nip it in the butt ....Sometimes you just have to except it. ...

Good ones Milt's head is probably spinning.

 

[Music Lover]

Good ones Milt's head is probably spinning.

You forgot

But you did ax about it

 

[Milton]

You both forgot:

I could care less ... it's all one in the same. You shouldn't let it phase you ... you've got another thing coming. Anyway, I'm sure it was said on accident.... I'll be waiting for the response with baited breath.

Well done, Harley!. You must have had fun putting that together.

People's capacity for mixing up words often exceeds my apprehension.

 

[ugeauxgirl]

I don't buy it. Insisting that a spouse work when they don't need to is coercive and corrosive to the relationship. The OP is supposed to suck it up and be unhappy until he gets permission to do what makes him happy so his wife doesn't have to go though the hard work of understanding their true financial position. Were the sexes reversed in this discussion, I think the guy would be seen as a bully.

I'm in the same situation- only my HUSBAND doesn't want me to quit. I don't think he is a bully- he is a pessimist. But I'm done going over charts and graphs. Even the one that showed it would take a 3.5% return for 50 years to produce a failure. There is no amount of money that will make him feel safe, and I'm just not working for 10 more years to try to achieve that. He doesn't have to retire and he probably won't. He makes more than enough to support us, and while I couldn't get my old job back, or one making the same amount of money, I could certainly get one that would support our spending. We have a great marriage and after years of talking about it, he's accepted that its going to happen...

 

[Milton]

Good for you. You make several valid points.

 

[harley]

In our case, I talked to DW for a decade or so about my plans for us to RE as soon as it was (very conservatively) financially feasible. I ran numbers for her, pointed out the my mom and brother both died before age 43, and overall made sure that she was aware of my intentions. Well, as I turned 50 and was ready to take the plunge, she freaked out! She had heard me for all those years, but never really accepted that it was possible to retire young and just assumed I was spouting gibberish. So despite all the communication, we had to do it all over again before I left the job. Now, 10 years down the road, she's ecstatic that we've had all this time away from the man. She admits it's the best thing we could have done.

It just goes to show that the standard "make sure you communicate" advice doesn't always work. But keep pushing and make sure she knows how important and doable it is. You'll be fine in the long run.

 

[Sunset]

I'm in the same situation- only my HUSBAND doesn't want me to quit. I don't think he is a bully- he is a pessimist. But I'm done going over charts and graphs. Even the one that showed it would take a 3.5% return for 50 years to produce a failure. There is no amount of money that will make him feel safe, and I'm just not working for 10 more years to try to achieve that. He doesn't have to retire and he probably won't. He makes more than enough to support us, and while I couldn't get my old job back, or one making the same amount of money, I could certainly get one that would support our spending. We have a great marriage and after years of talking about it, he's accepted that its going to happen...

I was that guy for about 2 years, I mean how could we ??
The difference was DW didn't show me numbers, just wanted to stop.
Once I ran the numbers all sorts of ways, including using less than we had, I realized she had been right 2 years ago

 

[pb4uski]

OP is MIA. Last post was 8/10. Perhaps he retired and is traveling.

 

[FUEGO]

Get fired. Enjoy life! Worked well for me (3 years ago today).

DW kept working for 2.5 years after I quit and then joined me.

As an added bonus, not having a job means you'll owe less for alimony and child support should your wife leave you (though caution: your wife's attorney will seek to have your income imputed as if you were able to return to work).