Hello, with socioeconomic commentary

haha said:
Wow! A loving and likely accurate appraisal.

I liked Ted because he was challenging and smart, and he sure saw the best way to play the coming bull market in crude. But he was definitely no politician. :)

Ha
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:D Depending on how hard he played - he may have beat me to that villa in the Bahamas with his Jimmy Buffett shirts and tropical drink - he might be too embrassed to admit he changed his mind.

:rolleyes: since he is not here - let's make up something optimistic.

heh heh heh - 19 degrees and snowing lightly.
 
I found myself in Ted's position in 2002. I spent 15 months out of w*rk and then got a contract position paying a little more than half of my prior compensation.

When I was layed off/fired, I was frantic and frustrated beyond words. I would probably have qualified as clinically depressed because it runs in my family and I'm familiar with the symptoms. I definitely had them.

In my totally boring contract job, I discovered this forum and lurked for several years before registering. I just had to ask a question about Guyton.

What's pathetic about the whole situation is that once I discovered this forum I quickly discovered that I was financially able to retire. DW may not have immediately accepted the lifestyle we could afford but I'm slowly converting her thinking. Fortunately or unfortunately, my FIL will keep us trapped in Houston for several more years. Since I'm now making more than my original 2002 position by a good margin, I'm definitely FI. I get 4 weeks PTO a year, work 4 day weeks and can get unpaid time off easily. It seems silly to not have this kind of job when we really can't leave Houston for more than a week at a time. There certainly isn't any reason to "retire" in Houston that I've discovered.

Hopefully, Ted will go through a similar transition. I frequently talk to my current coworkers about the time "I thought I was important." They laugh at some of the silly things I did.
 
twaddle said:
I'm sure Ted would be honored to know we're still talking about him. I liked him because he had a pretty fresh econ masters, so he still talked like a student. :)
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True. Ted helped dispel boredom, and avoiding boredom has been a major occupation for me.

Ha
 
bongo2 said:
One of the things that I really liked about Ted was his willingness to challenge the dogma of the board, and say what no one else around here will: that ER is selfish. A lot of poeple here like to pretend, in the face of all mores and common sense, that ER is morally positive.
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bongo2,

Okay, I'm new on the ER boards and haven't been through this argument in depth yet, so I'm interested.

Post a thread titled "Proposal: ER Is Selfish" or something similar and I'll debate it with you. I'll take the not selfish side. Don't know what forum is most appropriate. (help, mods?)

I'll do my best to keep it civil.

We'll have to settle on definitions of what is selfish and morally positive as a starting place.
 
bongo2 said:
One of the things that I really liked about Ted was his willingness to challenge the dogma of the board, and say what no one else around here will: that ER is selfish. A lot of people here like to pretend, in the face of all mores and common sense, that ER is morally positive. Every few days there is a new thread where someone expresses surprise that their friends and family are angry or offended that they are retiring early. Some of the reasons (like envy) are not so admirable, but the fact is that it is perfectly natural for people to feel that way, and they have something of a point. I think that Ted's comment above was elegant, and it hit home.
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I guess I don't see the mores and common sense that defies the notion that ER is morally positive. Most ER's here did it by LBYM, as in, didn't consume a bunch of disposable garbage because it was the hot thing that year, only to fill a landfill the next. They most likely continue to live that lifestyle after ER. Meanwhile, like Nords said, they have an opportunity to do more good than ever. Even with our limited FI, we are helping to fund/build a house in Mexico for a family. Meanwhile, an ER makes room for a younger professional to advance in their career, as the person I just replaced in management did. Being more available for your offspring in their young adult years, giving them the freedom to choose careers the love vs. what will quickly get them on their feet, spending more time with grand kids...I haven't even begun to list the benefits of ER to the community.

Very few people who FIRE are sipping umbrella drinks with Hugh Hefner on a mega yaught. Those people are still working! :)
 
I may get flammed for my posting.... but I just could not resist. I think the point that most here are missing, is that there is nothing wrong with being selfish. Selfishness does not mean never helping others, it just means not helping others, at the expense of yourself. I would think that the goal of most peoples lives, including mine, is to gain as much happiness for ourselves as possible. If ER is your goal, then you should feel happy in your persuit of that goal. If anyone has the attitude of "Well if I cannot retire early.... then neither should you", is insane.
Being called selfish seems to be one of those "boogeymen" in our society. And I have seen people do all sorts of mental gymnastics to try to persuade others that ER somehow benefits "society as a whole", or "their fellow citizens", or even, "the common good", because of course they never want to be "selfish".
The fact is that for us to be happy and successful in life, there is a certain amount of "selfishness" that we need to employ. Taking care of yourself and your family the best way that you can, should hardly be considered a "bad" thing. And is it selfish to want to take care of yourself and your family the best way you can? Of course it is selfish! And this is not a bad thing.....
 
armor99 said:
I may get flammed for my posting.... but I just could not resist.
The fact is that for us to be happy and successful in life, there is a certain amount of "selfishness" that we need to employ. Taking care of yourself and your family the best way that you can, should hardly be considered a "bad" thing. And is it selfish to want to take care of yourself and your family the best way you can? Of course it is selfish! And this is not a bad thing.....
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16 degrees and snow out my computer window - Saints blew their season last Sunday and my Sister will continue to call about those dang Pats!

Screw moral! Next week I plan to swing by Chattanooga, pick up Blondie, be in New Orleans the week before Christmas and then wing it (Branson, Nashville) for a week or so after that.

I plan as much immoral, fattening, or slacker behavior as this 64 yr old body can manage.

I do miss Ted's discussion of the moral implications re the negative convexity of bond yield curves and other uplifting themes.

heh heh heh - :cool:
 
armor99,

bongo2's post indicated that there's something about ERing that's selfish that is different than working. I'm looking for what he sees as that difference.

Thus, needing to agree on the definition.
 
Post a thread titled "Proposal: ER Is Selfish" or something similar and I'll debate it with you. I'll take the not selfish side.
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The most famous classic blunder is never get involved in a land war in Asia, but only slightly less well-known is this: never start an internet debate with a whole forum of retired people with nothing but time on their hands.
 
bongo2 said:
The most famous classic blunder is never get involved in a land war in Asia, but only slightly less well-known is this: never start an internet debate with a whole forum of retired people with nothing but time on their hands.
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True. Much better to simply assert that something flies "in the face of all mores and common sense" and then refuse to defend it. Suffice to say that I disagree with your unsubstantiated assertion.


P.S. - I like the Princess Bride reference!
 
armor99 said:
I may get flammed for my posting.... but I just could not resist. I think the point that most here are missing, is that there is nothing wrong with being selfish. Selfishness does not mean never helping others, it just means not helping others, at the expense of yourself. I would think that the goal of most peoples lives, including mine, is to gain as much happiness for ourselves as possible. If ER is your goal, then you should feel happy in your persuit of that goal. If anyone has the attitude of "Well if I cannot retire early.... then neither should you", is insane.
Being called selfish seems to be one of those "boogeymen" in our society. And I have seen people do all sorts of mental gymnastics to try to persuade others that ER somehow benefits "society as a whole", or "their fellow citizens", or even, "the common good", because of course they never want to be "selfish".
The fact is that for us to be happy and successful in life, there is a certain amount of "selfishness" that we need to employ. Taking care of yourself and your family the best way that you can, should hardly be considered a "bad" thing. And is it selfish to want to take care of yourself and your family the best way you can? Of course it is selfish! And this is not a bad thing.....
Click to expand...
Charity begins at home...then, hopefully, expands...:rolleyes:

You are right...this is a forum with a lot of ER'd people who are prepared to defend their choice!:D
 
bongo2 said:
The most famous classic blunder is never get involved in a land war in Asia, but only slightly less well-known is this: never start an internet debate with a whole forum of retired people with nothing but time on their hands.
Click to expand...

Wise man.
 
Ah, Princess Bride, top ten movie all time. "Hello! My name is Inigo Montoya! You killed my father prepare to die!" - that's probably the jist of what most ER's thought when you posted they were selfish, bongo and armor! ;)


How did that avocado thing start? Top ten ER board fighting words IMHO. :D
 
laurencewill said:
Ah, Princess Bride, top ten movie all time. "Hello! My name is Inigo Montoya! You killed my father prepare to die!" - that's probably the jist of what most ER's thought when you posted they were selfish, bongo and armor! ;)


How did that avocado thing start? Top ten ER board fighting words IMHO. :D
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You started it!
 
Funny thread. I remember that morning. Laurence emailed me that he was bored and eventually suggested that we stage a fake fight in a thread. Halfway through he got scared that he went too far.

Good morning laugh...

INCONCEIVABLE!
 
cute fuzzy bunny said:
Funny thread. I remember that morning. Laurence emailed me that he was bored and eventually suggested that we stage a fake fight in a thread. Halfway through he got scared that he went too far.

Good morning laugh...

INCONCEIVABLE!
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So...does that mean that Ted never existed?:rant:
 
Well....it turns out that I have a dog named Ted, frankly I dont keep track of him for hours at a time...and he is often seen laying like a large meatloaf in the living room near the computer...
 
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