How much time to give for notice?

[ERD50]

Of course you CAN do it, but if somebody has been employed someplace for years and years, it is only ethical to inform the company of impending retirement so the company can start a replacement process. It's what grown ups do.

And a "grown up" company that has been around for years and years will have an employee contract that specifies how much notice is to be given, and the consequences of not providing it. It might be one week, two weeks, a month, six months, etc, depending on the position. Who is to say what was appropriate in this case, if it wasn't in writing?

As many have mentioned, a company may not have that same level of "ethical" treatment towards a long term employee.

We've also seen almost universally that when asked to give more time to find a replacement, the company doesn't do that at all. They keep using the employee, and don't look for a replacement. Then they beg for more time. It is a two way street. And there should be contractual agreements.

-ERD50

 

[Montecfo]

Was that a simple typo - should read "terminated"? - or a new euphemism in HR-speak?

No was not a typo. It is an actual "term" if you will. It does mean terminated.

 

[24601NoMore]

Of course you CAN do it, but if somebody has been employed someplace for years and years, it is only ethical to inform the company of impending retirement so the company can start a replacement process. It's what grown ups do.

And will that same company give advance notice of their plan to treat the employee like a leaf blower treats leaves when they desire to RIF people? Of course they don't. Ergo, none of us owe our employer squat. It is employment at will, and that's mutual on both sides.

That said, there's class and tact - by BOTH the company and the employee, and for that reason, 2 weeks is customary. But as we all know, MegaCorp can - and WILL - walk any of us out the door at any time, so I'm not sure I agree that there is any requirement of any of us to treat them any better. IF we want to, fine. But I don't think we can belittle those who choose not to.

 

[JoeWras]

I think the reason we have some disagreement here is because of our diversity of experience. We have some members who work in close partner situations, others who work in smaller corps run like family. In those cases, it is hard to fathom not giving a few months to a year's notice. In partner or c-suite situations, it may be required.

What I find amazing is many people here report that they and their coworkers are still treated well by megacorp, even those being asked to leave. Apparently, these megacorp leaders didn't get the memo, and good for them! I'm glad to hear there are still a few decent megacorps who treat people with respect. For sure, if these megacorps are consistent in that respect, I'd pay it back.

And then there are the rest. The blood-thirsty bottom-liners who see you only as an expense to be eliminated, and nothing more. On this thread, plenty has been said about them and our appropriate response to giving notice.

 

[Milton]

No was not a typo. It is an actual "term" if you will. It does mean terminated.

A contender for Lucy Kellaway's "Golden Flannel Awards".

 

[mcbraemer]

I think Lucy Kellaway's commentaries are hilarious and capture today's corporate world to a tee .... can only find her on the Irish Times website. Think that she retired or at least is doing something else now?

 

[Floridatennisplayer]

I have a new strategy I’m thinking of giving them a six-month notice and I know Mega Corp. will go nuts and just fire me then I can collect unemployment

 

[SumDay]

I have a new strategy I’m thinking of giving them a six-month notice and I know Mega Corp. will go nuts and just fire me then I can collect unemployment

I tried that. Two months later, I'm still here. I'm trying to be more cantankerous than usual in hopes of a parachute opening, but I don't think that will help either.

I am SO mentally checked-out. Conference calls get more painful by the day. 18 more Mondays!

 

[Milton]

A couple of years ago, Lucy decided to make a career switch and became a teacher at a comprehensive: see here and here. She very occasionally writes articles in the Financial Times and other newspapers about her new vocation: see e.g. What's it like to quit your job and start teaching at 58.

It's certainly not an ER option that appeals to me (cf. this column) ... but to each their own!

 

[mcbraemer]

A couple of years ago, Lucy decided to make a career switch and became a teacher at a comprehensive: see here and here. She very occasionally writes articles in the Financial Times and other newspapers about her new vocation: see e.g. What's it like to quit your job and start teaching at 58.

It's certainly not an ER option that appeals to me (cf. this column) ... but to each their own!

Thanks Milton. I agree, retiring to teaching (although I used to dream about being a tenured Ivy League professor back in the day - never happened !) is not appealing these days to me.

 

[Out of Steam]

So my usual answer on this is that no matter how long you give, do so with the ability to accept that they just might ask you to pack up and leave this afternoon. "oh not me I'm too valuable we don't do that here" - doesn't always apply.

My spouse has decided to retire before me and wants to give 4-5 months notice before retiring. Despite the company's lack of history of such things, I'm not sure it's a great idea.

 

[medved]

Seems different companies have different customs when it comes to notice. In my business, we have a 60-day notice requirement (with financial penalties for non-compliance). But the custom is more like 6-12 months. Nobody is bound by the custom, of course. But the overwhelming majority of senior people abide by it (and I intend to do so).

 

[mdsmith1]

If you were laid off how much time would you be given? Give the same amount plus a few weeks.

 

[ransil]

I gave my 5 year notice.(unofficial)
I have about 3 to go, I have not nailed down theocracy date yet still working on it.

 

[braumeister]

I have not nailed down theocracy date yet still working on it.

If our form of government were to change that drastically, I wouldn't want to think about it either.

 

[ransil]

I gave my 5 year notice.(unofficial)
I have about 3 to go, I have not nailed down theocracy date yet still working on it.

Stupid spellchecker... I fixed that once.

 

[MoneyIsMyHobby]

I know this is an old thread, but I want to add the perspective of a small business owner. My #2 and #3 have been telling me they're 5 years from retirement for the last 4 years (it never gets closer).

First, I really appreciate that they gave me that heads up, even as it gets pushed out.

Second, I ask them on a regular basis (about every 6 mo) for some sort of update. I don't need anything concrete, just an idea of what they're thinking. This gives me some idea by which to plan, rather than just knowing it is someday in the future.

I sincerely hope they don't give me only 2 weeks notice... and what would be their motivation to do so. If they were able to give me 6mo to 1yr, I would immediately start looking for replacements to be in training and ensuring knowledge transfer to others in the company. Before you say it, of course I'm already working on knowledge transfer, but it would be different approach with 6m notice.

In my ideal world, they'd do a phased retirement, cutting back hours over time, thereby helping me to cover payroll of their replacements by saving on their payroll. I've expressed this to both of them, and they've both expressed interest. Hopefully this is what pans out, with a year transition.

Realistically, what is probably going to happen, is they will have a medical scare, or a friend or family member will pass away, or some other major life event... and I'll only get my 2 weeks notice after all....

MIMH

 

[JoeWras]

A small business vs. Megacorp are two different scenarios.


The biggest problems with Megacorps these days, at least in tech, is that the day to day manager has no idea when he/she is going to be directed to cut heads. And usually, it is done for them. They get given a list to cut by some number cruncher in the sky, with names vetted from algorithms and a check from some VP who has little day to day contact with the manager.


So even though the worker can be nice and work with their manager, the cruel machinery of Megacorp trumps all and has no heart when looking to make numbers.


As a small business owner/operator, you are manager, director, VP, SVP, CFO and CEO all in one. It is different.

 

[JoeWras]

So, I gave 1 month notice, and got somewhat cajoled into 3 months. This way, we can have a plan to transition. I'm fine with it, but I am a bit of a sucker.


My manager is concerned about Megacorp layoffs and has passed to the word to above if a list is made, I get put on it, hopefully.

 

[MoneyIsMyHobby]

JoeWras,

You're totally correct. I've never worked at MegaCorp, except for a summer internship at Boeing. There are a lot of differences, as you indicate, including less overlapping responsibility... and fewer people in general. If those two leave at the same time, my workforce is cut by about 20% (of total people). It is really closer to 40% of full time equivalent people. I'm also in a niche industry that makes it hard to find qualified people. That has it's pros and cons, as there are also limited competitors nearby trying to steal my folks.

MIMH

 

[WestUniversity]

At my MegaCorp generally consultants come in to “right size” the organization. Basically they do the dirty work that management won’t. Management then blames it on the consultants. The truth of the matter is the consultants ask for something like a 2% cut. Management then supplies the names of the people to meet the objective. Pretty gutless...

 

[MoneyIsMyHobby]

At my MegaCorp generally consultants come in to “right size” the organization. Basically they do the dirty work that management won’t. Management then blames it on the consultants. The truth of the matter is the consultants ask for something like a 2% cut. Management then supplies the names of the people to meet the objective. Pretty gutless...

Are there consultants like this for households?

"Sorry little Joey, the consultant says you have to move out. I know you're only 5, but don't worry, we'll keep paying you 60% of your allowance for the next 12 weeks while you look for a new home."



MIMH

 

[Rustward]

One place I worked required managers to rank their direct reports quarterly and file that with HR. When someone was RIFd, they were sometimes transferred to a remote office (still working out of the local office) then terminated several weeks later. This was clearly the pattern. In all cases both the current manager and the former manager got to say this was totally an HR decision.

In a different company, DW found out her fate when the director mistakenly printed his hit list on DW's printer. Office automation was relatively new and this type of thing (directing something to the wrong printer) happened frequently.

At yet another place a coworker found out when he was rejected for an auto loan at the company credit union.

One guy left the office at lunch to visit his mother in the hospital. He left the number to her room with his manager who called him there a few minutes later to tell him to go straight to HR to be processed out.

Sort of a tangential post -- sorry.

 

[JoeWras]

Sort of a tangential post -- sorry.

Tangential? Not really. It helps some understand why some people think it makes a lot of sense to keep it to 2 weeks max.

Now, if I worked in a small place and had a relationship with the entire management chain for decades, as MoneyIsMyHobby does with his/her employees, it is different, assuming MoneyIsMyHobby doesn't lay people off when they go to lunch!

 

[eastnortheast]

I works for a mini Corp which was bought by a Mega Corp. I told my boss I was going to retire last ~ June, figuring worst case, they would show me the door right away (which I would have been okay with). He talked me into staying on until a replacement could be found and a transition made.

So, I ended up staying until almost the end of the year. I have to admit, those last 5-6 months were great. Pressure was off, and knowing I could leave at any time was refreshing. The best thing was when i would as my boss for something. His reply was, "eastnortheast, I can't say no to you", because he knew that I (kind of) had the upper hand.

Left on good terms, burned no bridges and it was a good glide path into retirement. Other than getting a package, it was a good way to go out.