17 Year Old wants to join the Army

[haha]

Bush Sr was shot down during WWII.

And of course we all remember Jack kennedy and Pt. 109. And the little matter of Dwight David Eisenhower, Supreme Allied Commander in WW2.

But I believe that Youbet was referring to the fact that no US president has served in combat since WW2.

Ha

 

[youbet]

And of course we all remember Jack kennedy and Pt. 109. And the little matter of Dwight David Eisenhower, Supreme Allied Commander in WW2.

But I believe that Youbet was referring to the fact that no US president has served in combat since WW2.

Ha

Thanks for reiterating that Ha. Perhaps Razor was skim reading this morning......

 

[Razor]

Thanks for reiterating that Ha. Perhaps Razor was skim reading this morning......

I misunderstood the wording of your statement.

 

[deserat]

I'm sorry I'm late to this and would like to give my perspective as well - why am I late to this - I am a Reservist - in fact this weekend was my assumption of command ceremony for my squadron - I also have a full-time civilian job - so much for early-retirement!

Several comments: first - Nords comment about the discharge from the Reserves not affecting someone - I have to disagree. One of my jobs as commander is to decide whether to not to excuse people for not showing up on their weekend and after 9 unexcused, they are processed for a discharge. One of the things I told my staff is please let's think about the age of the person making these decisions about their weekends - if they are young and are hormone driven or just immature, I don't want them to make an inadvertent decision which might affect their future. If they truly are not willing to finish out the contract, and are not paying their govt credit card, then I go for the discharge. Enlistment is for 2, 4 or 6 years. It shows character and builds it to finish out your committment.

As for deployments, well, that's another buagaboo of mine - many of my squadron will be leaving soon for deployments in Iraq. It is difficult to manage this as we are being encouraged to 'volunteer' as Reservists and not be mobilized. However, things are getting so dire in some of the officer areas (the one I'm in) that mobilization authority is being granted. That means close to 220 days for many. The Air Force is a bit more lenient on the timeframe (and the Army hates us for it), but it is still demanding nonetheless. I know that I am vulnerable all the time to go. That being said, I know that having a military career (of sorts) with a deployment makes for a more complete career.

Regarding the parents and families of the Reservists - it is a strain. I see it on my husband and he's active duty - remember I have another civilian job. This job as a commander has got to be one of the most demanding so far because I'm ultimately responsible.

Regarding your son - I didn't realize it but my parents had to sign so I could get my ROTC scholarship when I was 17. Theoretically you are in the military and if you don't meet th eobligations of the scholarship, you are sent to basic in Lackland. I think it depends on the maturity of the child. Some are more mature than others. I've seen some more mature 16 year olds than 40 year olds. I would just be sure that he understands all of the ramifications of his choice - or as many as he or you can grasp at that time.

Good luck - just the fact you are interested and care will lead you to help him make the right decision.

 

[Nords]

Several comments: first - Nords comment about the discharge from the Reserves not affecting someone - I have to disagree. One of my jobs as commander is to decide whether to not to excuse people for not showing up on their weekend and after 9 unexcused, they are processed for a discharge. One of the things I told my staff is please let's think about the age of the person making these decisions about their weekends - if they are young and are hormone driven or just immature, I don't want them to make an inadvertent decision which might affect their future. If they truly are not willing to finish out the contract, and are not paying their govt credit card, then I go for the discharge. Enlistment is for 2, 4 or 6 years. It shows character and builds it to finish out your committment.

I agree that there are adverse consequences for bad behavior, yet so few of today's civilian employers have a clue about the characterization of a military discharge. It might complicate some GI Bill benefits or make it difficult to enter state/federal civil service, but I have yet to hear of a veteran whose OTHD made it difficult for them to find employment. And some of that employment included a security clearance.

It's my observation, from admittedly limited experience, that Navy doesn't take punitive action against Reserve enlistees with no prior active-duty service who choose to stop showing up for weekend drills. They're counseled, warned, and threatened but in the end they're simply discharged with a general and a "never enlist again" code.

I've sat admin boards for all manner of slimeballs who desperately deserved a court-martial for their offenses, let alone a negotiated discharge. We're not just talking drugs but offenses like deliberate/sustained perjury, sexual assault, deliberate assault with an STD, or gross dereliction of duty resulting in injured shipmates. Yet for all the bitching & whining I've heard over awarding general discharges, let alone an OTHD, you'd think we were vigilantes. (The civilian equivalent would be like trying to give negative feedback on eBay.) After my opinion had been clearly stated to a few higher-ups in my chain of command, somehow the admin board rotation never got back around to me.

So in today's more lenient environment, a veteran carrying an OTHD usually had to work really really hard for it, and probably only avoided prison by virtue of the prosecuter's error.

 

[zoey]

My husband used to surf with four young men who, if I am remembering correctly, were National Guard reservists. They were sent to Iraq and survived and were not supposed to have to go back, however they were sent again. Three of the four were killed last year and the fourth was wounded. My husband saw him the other day and didn't recognize him. He lives in his car. He can't surf anymore. His injuries left one of his legs so messed up he can barely walk. The worst part, however, is that he's now mentally completely gone. He's so messed up that he doesn't have the presence of mind to know how to get help. This young man is in very bad shape and I doubt that he will ever be OK again.

My husband is an ex marine, combat veteran. He lives with a lot of pain every day as a result of his injuries from Vietnam. He gets zero from the VA. They like to lose records, so they don't have to pay anything. My husband saved a lot of lives and earned a bronze star and a silver star and a purple heart. He lost a lot of friends and still has nightmares sometimes after all these years. He would do whatever it takes to keep his son from going to Iraq. It's not like in the John Wayne movies. There is nothing glorious about war.

Your son wants to go to Iraq, but I don't think he knows what the reality of war is like. My husband can tell you about stomach wounds with intestines spilling out and that no amount of morphine can help with and dying men asking for their mothers. He witnessed many young men dying and it wasn't unusual for them to cry out for their mothers. My husband can tell you about arms being shot off and about the soldier next to him getting shot in the head and his brain matter splattered all over my husband. He can tell you story after story of horrific things that he experienced in only 13 months time. He was injured about 30 days before he was to be sent home. His helicopter was hit with an RPG. My husband and the pilot survived. Everyone else was killed.

Like Vietnam, the Iraq war is senseless. It's only purpose is to make rich men richer. But, whatever you believe, the reality of war is very different from the idealistic notions of a young man who has no idea of the horrors that await him.

If I were his mother, I would do everything in my power and more, to keep him from going to war.

 

[dumpster56]

My husband used to surf with four young men who, if I am remembering correctly, were National Guard reservists. They were sent to Iraq and survived and were not supposed to have to go back, however they were sent again. Three of the four were killed last year and the fourth was wounded. My husband saw him the other day and didn't recognize him. He lives in his car. He can't surf anymore. His injuries left one of his legs so messed up he can barely walk. The worst part, however, is that he's now mentally completely gone. He's so messed up that he doesn't have the presence of mind to know how to get help. This young man is in very bad shape and I doubt that he will ever be OK again.

My husband is an ex marine, combat veteran. He lives with a lot of pain every day as a result of his injuries from Vietnam. He gets zero from the VA. They like to lose records, so they don't have to pay anything. My husband saved a lot of lives and earned a bronze star and a silver star and a purple heart. He lost a lot of friends and still has nightmares sometimes after all these years. He would do whatever it takes to keep his son from going to Iraq. It's not like in the John Wayne movies. There is nothing glorious about war.

Your son wants to go to Iraq, but I don't think he knows what the reality of war is like. My husband can tell you about stomach wounds with intestines spilling out and that no amount of morphine can help with and dying men asking for their mothers. He witnessed many young men dying and it wasn't unusual for them to cry out for their mothers. My husband can tell you about arms being shot off and about the soldier next to him getting shot in the head and his brain matter splattered all over my husband. He can tell you story after story of horrific things that he experienced in only 13 months time. He was injured about 30 days before he was to be sent home. His helicopter was hit with an RPG. My husband and the pilot survived. Everyone else was killed.

Like Vietnam, the Iraq war is senseless. It's only purpose is to make rich men richer. But, whatever you believe, the reality of war is very different from the idealistic notions of a young man who has no idea of the horrors that await him.

If I were his mother, I would do everything in my power and more, to keep him from going to war.

You might be made a freak a nut case by posting what you just did.

Not a chance in the world would I have any of our fantastic young people JOIN the military today UNTIL we leave Iraq. The country has not had to make any sacrifice for this war as a whole. Only a small minority of young men and women who joined are being sacrificed in the name of a war on terror which is so disgusting when bin laden and alzwahiri are still living. Who is recieving the huge funds for the upkeep in Iraq? Halliburton! Remember?? No other companies got to bid on most any contract to rebuild things like water sewer roads etc. Then there is the OIL angle. We are there because we have not the guts to admit that well over 1/2 the oil on the planet is under lands in the middle east and well we need a police station there, since we LEFT saudi arabia after 9/11. Yes we left saudi arabia one of bin ladens demands after 9/11. Yes I had stayed away from this thread until this last post.

Sorry but if the war on terror is so important then every young man and women who turn 18 should have to put on a uniform and fight. But alas, it really is not about Iraqi Freedoms, or terror its about big corporations a military state that still sells billions of dollars of weapons to countries and a continuation of american suburban sprawal and happy motoring by SUV and Nascar weekends in america.

How about health care for all americans, new railroads, vehicles that get 75 mpg, new nuke plants, rebuild our schools roads and bridges and build the strongest military that can defend what really is important. Americans. Let the Chinese deal with Asia, you still want to eat their exports?? Heck Trader Joes is not going to sell any food from China starting in April! Let other countries in Europe take care of their part of the world. Let it be known that we will intervene when and only when it is really an issue. Iraq is not and never was our problem. But as Colon Powell said you break it you bought it. The dude was right even if he screwed things up in that UN speech.

So I would find a way to have your son do something else until the Iraqi adventure is over.

 

[dumpster56]

I am happy there are kids like Arc's son, Nord's nephew, and bunch of young men and woman who I play poker with.

I am curious for those you who support a strong military and oppose virtually every war. If we are going to have an isolationist/non-interventionist foreign policy why do we need to spend a huge amount on on our Armed forces?

I count 10 shooting wars since WWII (defined as 1 week or more of combat action by US forces) Korea, Vietnam, Grenada, Panama, 1st Gulf War, Somalia, Desert Fox, Kosovo, Afghanistan, Iraq. In addition at least a couple of dozen time US forces were placed in harms way as a stabilizing forces (e.g. Lebannon (twice), Bosnia, Haiti) and many others.

Did you support any of these wars at the beginning? in retrospect?

Then have a draft, make it so everyone has an interest in defending america. But the Iraq trip was never about defending america, and it was not about defending america back in gulf war I either. Korea? Heck the Chinese chased my father all over the country when they decided to enter the war BUT he was DRAFTED. He did what he was ordered to do and proudly, and when I came of age during Vietnam I did not agree with the war BUT I had a draft card and a lottery number of 288 and followed the rules. If I would be drafted I would go period, but again I followed the rules, draft card and lottery number 288. I never burned my draft card. I still have it.

 

[zoey]

You might be made a freak a nut case by posting what you just did.

Not a chance in the world would I have any of our fantastic young people JOIN the military today UNTIL we leave Iraq. The country has not had to make any sacrifice for this war as a whole. Only a small minority of young men and women who joined are being sacrificed in the name of a war on terror which is so disgusting when bin laden and alzwahiri are still living. Who is recieving the huge funds for the upkeep in Iraq? Halliburton! Remember?? No other companies got to bid on most any contract to rebuild things like water sewer roads etc. Then there is the OIL angle. We are there because we have not the guts to admit that well over 1/2 the oil on the planet is under lands in the middle east and well we need a police station there, since we LEFT saudi arabia after 9/11. Yes we left saudi arabia one of bin ladens demands after 9/11. Yes I had stayed away from this thread until this last post.

Sorry but if the war on terror is so important then every young man and women who turn 18 should have to put on a uniform and fight. But alas, it really is not about Iraqi Freedoms, or terror its about big corporations a military state that still sells billions of dollars of weapons to countries and a continuation of american suburban sprawal and happy motoring by SUV and Nascar weekends in america.

How about health care for all americans, new railroads, vehicles that get 75 mpg, new nuke plants, rebuild our schools roads and bridges and build the strongest military that can defend what really is important. Americans. Let the Chinese deal with Asia, you still want to eat their exports?? Heck Trader Joes is not going to sell any food from China starting in April! Let other countries in Europe take care of their part of the world. Let it be known that we will intervene when and only when it is really an issue. Iraq is not and never was our problem. But as Colon Powell said you break it you bought it. The dude was right even if he screwed things up in that UN speech.

So I would find a way to have your son do something else until the Iraqi adventure is over.

Not sure what you mean by: "You might be made a freak a nut case by posting what you just did."

My intention was to illustrate the reality of war. Too many naieve, young men dream of some kind of macho, John Wayne-type of adventure. The reality is so very ugly, shocking, and tragic. If sharing some real-life experiences in graphic detail can help wake-up anyone, or their parents, and help them avoid going to war, then I think it's worth posting these ugly, graphic details. Frankly, the reality is much worse than I can possibly explain. My knowledge is second hand, after all, and it is my husband who lives with the nightmares, not me.

 

[imnxpat]

You might be made a freak a nut case by posting what you just did.

Not a chance in the world would I have any of our fantastic young people JOIN the military today UNTIL we leave Iraq. The country has not had to make any sacrifice for this war as a whole. Only a small minority of young men and women who joined are being sacrificed in the name of a war on terror which is so disgusting when bin laden and alzwahiri are still living. Who is recieving the huge funds for the upkeep in Iraq? Halliburton! Remember?? No other companies got to bid on most any contract to rebuild things like water sewer roads etc. Then there is the OIL angle. We are there because we have not the guts to admit that well over 1/2 the oil on the planet is under lands in the middle east and well we need a police station there, since we LEFT saudi arabia after 9/11. Yes we left saudi arabia one of bin ladens demands after 9/11. Yes I had stayed away from this thread until this last post.

Sorry but if the war on terror is so important then every young man and women who turn 18 should have to put on a uniform and fight. But alas, it really is not about Iraqi Freedoms, or terror its about big corporations a military state that still sells billions of dollars of weapons to countries and a continuation of american suburban sprawal and happy motoring by SUV and Nascar weekends in america.

How about health care for all americans, new railroads, vehicles that get 75 mpg, new nuke plants, rebuild our schools roads and bridges and build the strongest military that can defend what really is important. Americans. Let the Chinese deal with Asia, you still want to eat their exports?? Heck Trader Joes is not going to sell any food from China starting in April! Let other countries in Europe take care of their part of the world. Let it be known that we will intervene when and only when it is really an issue. Iraq is not and never was our problem. But as Colon Powell said you break it you bought it. The dude was right even if he screwed things up in that UN speech.

So I would find a way to have your son do something else until the Iraqi adventure is over.

newguy888 and zoey, I wish that I could have articulated my post as well as you two did. You both said it all. Bush and Cheney are responsible for squandering thousands of lives and billions of dollars in this Iraq madness. But they'll likely never be held accountable.

 

[Arc]

You folks were very helpful so I thought I'd report back on where we are at. We told the boy he would have to wait until he is 18. We flip flopped back and forth several times. At the end of the day, it came down to the fact that we both believed that DW would torture herself if the worst happened. She is definitely the type who would second guess herself the rest of her life - "would he have changed his mind before he turned 18 and we didn't sign?" So we will let it play out that way and we fully expect him to come home with signed papers shortly after he turns 18 - and if so he will go with our blessing - and we will feel better that he is a year older and hopefully a year more mature.

Thanks again for all the input - it certainly helps to look at things from every perspective.

 

[Razor]

You folks were very helpful so I thought I'd report back on where we are at. We told the boy he would have to wait until he is 18. We flip flopped back and forth several times. At the end of the day, it came down to the fact that we both believed that DW would torture herself if the worst happened. She is definitely the type who would second guess herself the rest of her life - "would he have changed his mind before he turned 18 and we didn't sign?" So we will let it play out that way and we fully expect him to come home with signed papers shortly after he turns 18 - and if so he will go with our blessing - and we will feel better that he is a year older and hopefully a year more mature.

Thanks again for all the input - it certainly helps to look at things from every perspective.

Personally I believe you made the right decision. It's his life to do with what he wants........after he turns 18.

 

[Nords]

You folks were very helpful so I thought I'd report back on where we are at. We told the boy he would have to wait until he is 18.

Thanks, you'll have to let us know what kind of 18th birthday party the Army throws him!

 

[Caroline]

Thanks for the update. I don't think anyone who responded to your initial post, whatever position they took, did so with anything but your family's best interests in mind, so it's good to know that you're no longer on the horns of this difficult dilemma.

How did your son take it, if I may ask? Better or worse than expected?

 

[Arc]

Thanks for the update. I don't think anyone who responded to your initial post, whatever position they took, did so with anything but your family's best interests in mind, so it's good to know that you're no longer on the horns of this difficult dilemma.?

I couldn't agree more - thanks!

How did your son take it, if I may ask? Better or worse than expected?

He didn't take it well at first - I think he is coming around now though. We gave him a couple days to cool down then reminded him that over the next year - how we treat him will be a direct result of how he treats us. Quite frankly some of his adolescent behavior shortly after only reinforced for us that we made the right decision. He really is a great kid - and if it be God's will - he will be a great soldier.

 

[Razor]

. Quite frankly some of his adolescent behavior shortly after only reinforced for us that we made the right decision. .

I hope you pointed that out to him.

 

[imnxpat]

I couldn't agree more - thanks!



He didn't take it well at first - I think he is coming around now though. We gave him a couple days to cool down then reminded him that over the next year - how we treat him will be a direct result of how he treats us. Quite frankly some of his adolescent behavior shortly after only reinforced for us that we made the right decision. He really is a great kid - and if it be God's will - he will be a great soldier.

When your son reaches age 18, he may or may not still want to join the army, but this is why there are barriers like minimum age limits (and parents) to keep young people from making immature choices about important life decisions.

 

[dumpster56]

"He really is a great kid " Your quote...


That is why I would love to see him stay out of the military until the Iraqi adventure is done.

 

[OAG]

Yes and do not join the Police Force unless the Crime Rate falls X%.
Yes and do not join Fire Department unless the fire rate falls X%.
Yes and do not join the Tree Falling business until all the tall trees have been cut.
Yes and do not join...................................

Have no fear, there will be another War, seems every American generation has had one.

I am glad the boy is listening to his parents and I hope he does what he wants to even if he has to wait another year.

 

[Nords]

Quite frankly some of his adolescent behavior shortly after only reinforced for us that we made the right decision.

Well, thank goodness we never saw any examples of adolescent behavior when I was on active duty.

Anyway the remedy for that is pictures. You need lots of pictures.

Then when he brings his girlfriends over you can show off the photo album...