A Few Tablet Questions

[kaneohe]

trying to learn how to use a tablet on the fly:

1)when using a laptop and you make a typo, you can move the cursor to the
error region and then delete/correct. Can you do something similar w/ a tablet. The only way I know is to backspace/delete all the way from the end to the error. If the error is in the beginning, that's a lot to erase and retype.
2)how do you edit copy/edit paste to copy something; I can do ctl-c,ctl-v on
a Chromebook but don't know how to do that on a tablet.

just fyi, I'm using an Ipad.

 

[Meadbh]

This might help.

How to copy, paste, and perform basic text editing on your new iPad | iMore

 

[kaneohe]

THanks, meadbh, for that link. Guess my fingers have a different rhythm or something ........when I tap twice, the print font gets bigger; tap twice again and it gets smaller. I know I've accidentally done things and some buttons would pop up but I just got annoyed and got rid of them w/o checking what they said. Now when I want to do some (probably w/ those buttons), I can't make them come up. will try later when the moon is in a different phase.

 

[ERD50]

On my Android tablet, I loaded a different keyboard app that has cursor keys. I also HATE the fiddling I need to do on DW's iPad to backspace without deleting everything.

The newer versions might have this feature (check settings), or allow alternate keyboards - ahhh, here you go:

Best Alternative Keyboards for the iPhone and iPad | Digital Trends

Now why wouldn't Apple have cursor keys available? That's just crazy!

-ERD50

 

[Meadbh]

THanks, meadbh, for that link. Guess my fingers have a different rhythm or something ........when I tap twice, the print font gets bigger; tap twice again and it gets smaller. I know I've accidentally done things and some buttons would pop up but I just got annoyed and got rid of them w/o checking what they said. Now when I want to do some (probably w/ those buttons), I can't make them come up. will try later when the moon is in a different phase.

Try pressing for a couple of seconds on the area you want to edit. A word will be highlighted, with a Cut, Copy, Paste menu. You can stretch your selection by dragging on the handles at each end. This process is much easier if you zoom in on the text and also if you isolate the sentence first. To do that, just place the cursor after a period and enter Return a few times.

 

[mpeirce]

On the iPad using iOS 9 or later you can control the text cursor from the keyboard. Just place two fingers on the keyboard at once. The individual keys will fade out and it acts just like a trackpad. Move you two finger around to move the cursor.

The iPhone 6S and 6S+ support this same thing, but you use 3D touch to invoke it with a single finger (just press down hard on the keyboard) instead of two fingers. Same behavior.

Older iPhones don't support this.

tl;dr: Put two fingers on your iPad keyboard to move around the cursor.

 

[kaneohe]

Thanks for the suggestions.
mpeirce......I must have an older version or I'm doing something wrong. Using two fingers on keyboard.....both 1 finger of each hand or two fingers of 1 hand.....result in nothing happening.

ERD50........seemed like mostly for the iphone........will take another look later.
Maybe I missed it.

meadbh......the pressing for a few seconds has promise........but maybe I should hire a kid off the street to show me how. I get different responses each time even though I think the pressing is the same. A challenge tho and I vow not to be defeated. thanks.....

 

[Meadbh]

Not to worry, Kaneohe. I've been using an iPad for four years (using it now) and I am still learning new tricks. Just keep playing with it!

 

[bUU]

I personally don't feel that a tablet is an effective replacement for "a computer" for this very reason - the human interaction for certain activities need the additional controls provided by keyboard and mouse, which are just too unnatural the way things are within tablets today. Copy, paste, and cursor movements are possible, but just a tad too contrived to ever feel comfortable. And some critically important gestures for interacting with web applications, such as hover and right click, are practically impossible.

 

[folivier]

Or you could just not worry about typos. Lots of people now a days do that, even so-called journalists and professionals.
Just kidding. Typos and mis-used words are one of my biggest pet peeves.

 

[ERD50]

...

ERD50........seemed like mostly for the iphone........will take another look later.
Maybe I missed it....

Here's the one I use with my Android tablet, it says for iPhone and iPad...

https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/swiftkey-keyboard/id911813648?mt=8

Description
SwiftKey Keyboard for iPhone, iPad and iPod touch is a smart keyboard that learns from you, replacing your device’s built-in keyboard with one that adapts to the way you type.

... - the human interaction for certain activities need the additional controls provided by keyboard and mouse, which are just too unnatural the way things are within tablets today. Copy, paste, and cursor movements are possible, but just a tad too contrived to ever feel comfortable. And some critically important gestures for interacting with web applications, such as hover and right click, are practically impossible.

Yes, I sometimes feel like I have one arm tied behind my back when using my tablet.

I need to sit down and get real analytical about this, but off the top of my head, it seems the developers just have not fully thought this out. They need to analyze how we use mouse & keyboard, and map out an equivalent. It seems they just jumped in and tried to figure it out as they go. IIRC, the original iPhone didn't even have copy/paste - they just hadn't figured out how to support that yet?

The problem, as you point out, is that the default for touching your finger to a tablet screen really doesn't map directly to how we use a mouse/keyboard. Touching the screen is more like a combo hover-drag, but it isn't quite either one, so that throws everything off.

Again, off the top of my head mostly, but it seems they need a row of soft-keys along the bottom, similar to CNTRL, ALT, OPTION, SHIFT. I could see one special soft-key to support 'hover' for example. Hold HOVER as you move around, and it won't drag the screen around or anything. Or maybe THAT should be the default, and you hold a soft-key to move the screen? It needs more fundamental thought than they gave it, IMO.

-ERD50

 

[target2019]

When you press and hold, a magnifying glass appears. You can slide the cursor to a different location in your text.

If SwiftKey is available for Chrome I would definitely install that. The keyboard on screen is much better a and predictions are better. Also can swipe type.


Sent from my iPhone using Early Retirement Forum

 

[jazz4cash]

When you press and hold, a magnifying glass appears. You can slide the cursor to a different location in your text.

If SwiftKey is available for Chrome I would definitely install that. The keyboard on screen is much better a and predictions are better. Also can swipe type.


Sent from my iPhone using Early Retirement Forum

Wow! Thanks! It still seems clunky (at first) on my iPhone6, but much much better than nothing.

 

[bUU]

it seems the developers just have not fully thought this out. They need to analyze how we use mouse & keyboard, and map out an equivalent. It seems they just jumped in and tried to figure it out as they go.

Quite the opposite: They thought it through and established mobile accessibility standards and design principles for websites and web applications. The problem occurs when developers of websites and web applications fail to update their software to reflect these standards and principles, or when they do so they fail to do so effectively. (I'm guilty as charged, but it "isn't my fault!")

Earlier this year our church's national association introduced its new website. As far as I'm concerned, the new website is less attractive, and it is a bit harder to find and get to the information I'm looking for... on my desktop computer. On my tablet, I can get to everything that I can get to on my desktop computer, just as well. They made the decision that the future was mobile. The prevailing design imperative for websites and web applications these days is Mobile First Design.

There is a really great tool that wraps these standards and principles into a report developers can use to make sure their websites are as accessible on mobile devices as they are on desktop devices: WAVE Web Accessibility Tool Even my church's national association website, which is so well designed for mobile users, has a number of issues associated it still needs to work through. We've been developing website carelessly for over twenty five years... it will take a while before developers are instinctively sensitive enough to accessibility concerns.

Again, off the top of my head mostly, but it seems they need a row of soft-keys along the bottom, similar to CNTRL, ALT, OPTION, SHIFT.

That's counter to the intention of the touch experience. Rather, the solutions to these problems involve either doing away with the need for complex mouse or mouse-and-keyboard gestures, or replacing some of them with some touch-specific gestures - gestures that are impractical with a mouse, such as two finger gestures, and gestures that differentiate effect based on the pressure applied.

 

[kaneohe]

When you press and hold, a magnifying glass appears. You can slide the cursor to a different location in your text.

If SwiftKey is available for Chrome I would definitely install that. The keyboard on screen is much better a and predictions are better. Also can swipe type.


Sent from my iPhone using Early Retirement Forum

This press and hold seems to have great potential but I can't get the magnifying glass consistently and can't figure out how many different ways there are to press and hold to eliminate the variables..............any help
appreciated. Thanks.

 

[mpeirce]

Thanks for the suggestions.
mpeirce......I must have an older version or I'm doing something wrong. Using two fingers on keyboard.....both 1 finger of each hand or two fingers of 1 hand.....result in nothing happening.

Have you updated to iOS 9?

The two finger gesture is a big improvement IMHO over the old tap and hold loupe. Just place your index and middle fingers on the keyboard (keep them touching each other, not spread out) - the the labels on the keys fade and moving your fingers around moves the insertion cursor.

Here's Apple's web page describing this: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT205408

 

[target2019]

This press and hold seems to have great potential but I can't get the magnifying glass consistently and can't figure out how many different ways there are to press and hold to eliminate the variables..............any help
appreciated. Thanks.

I do not have Chrome, so it is difficult to answer your question.

The magnifying glass is only available when you are editing something. Could be a URL in the browser, or something you are editing in an E-R post, for two examples.

When you press and hold over some text (not editing), then the selection process is in effect. You can click on small round handles to expand the selection. But I admit this is very difficult to do. You do get better at it with practice.

 

[target2019]

Kanehoe, are you using apple or chromebook or android? Just realized I do not know which way you're coming from.

 

[ERD50]

... it seems the developers just have not fully thought this out. They need to analyze how we use mouse & keyboard, and map out an equivalent. It seems they just jumped in and tried to figure it out as they go.
-ERD50

Quite the opposite: They thought it through and established mobile accessibility standards and design principles for websites and web applications. ....

But if it is so well thought out, why do so many here find it clumsy?

It's not just web sites I'm talking about, any sort of text selection/edit/entry just seems somewhat cumbersome on a tablet.

And it's not just a matter of adapting, IMO. For example, I saw that after the iPad and other tablets/touchscreens came out, and we all got used to dragging our fingers UP to see the text that was further DOWN. We normally would have called this scrolling DOWN in the document, but on a touch screen you slide UP. So Apple changed the default scrolling direction on their computers to be more consistent with touchscreens. Took a little while to get used to, but it makes sense in the long run, so I adapted.

-ERD50

 

[kneehigh]

Kaneohe... make sure you are not inadvertently pressing the screen with the fingers of the other hand when you're doing it.

 

[kaneohe]

Have you updated to iOS 9?

The two finger gesture is a big improvement IMHO over the old tap and hold loupe. Just place your index and middle fingers on the keyboard (keep them touching each other, not spread out) - the the labels on the keys fade and moving your fingers around moves the insertion cursor.

Here's Apple's web page describing this: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT205408

mpeirce and others who have chimed in w/helpful tips: Thanks for the ideas. I saw your message this AM and got excited because I had indeed previously put two fingers of one hand spread out or 1 finger from both hands on the keyboard so I was sure what you wrote here was going to be the solution.
We had to leave on a trip today so I didn't have time to try this before we left.
When we got back, I tried what you suggested here and...............................
unfortunately the same nothing happened. I checked for version of operating system..........(settings/general).........it say v 9.0 (doesn't say iOS).

btw............what you said originally validates my pet theory: The best teachers are those who have recently fallen into the pit and successfully climbed out because they remember the pit. The experts assume too much and cannot comprehend how much havoc we idiots are capable of because we read and understand literally what you say and nothing more.
Here's what you said originally: "On the iPad using iOS 9 or later you can control the text cursor from the keyboard. Just place two fingers on the keyboard at once. The individual keys will fade out and it acts just like a trackpad. Move you two finger around to move the cursor.".......nothing about having having them together......so I can tell you're an expert

I'll try again in the AM..........

 

[kaneohe]

Kanehoe, are you using apple or chromebook or android? Just realized I do not know which way you're coming from.

ipad.......as stated in OP

 

[bUU]

But if it is so well thought out, why do so many here find it clumsy?

The rest of my message explained why.

It's not just web sites I'm talking about

There are a similar set of developer standards, I'm sure. I am not an app developer. My business is web.

And it's not just a matter of adapting, IMO.

Yet, there are millions more people engaged through the web now that mobile technology is so accessible to them.

 

[MichaelB]

trying to learn how to use a tablet on the fly:

1)when using a laptop and you make a typo, you can move the cursor to the
error region and then delete/correct. Can you do something similar w/ a tablet. The only way I know is to backspace/delete all the way from the end to the error. If the error is in the beginning, that's a lot to erase and retype.
2)how do you edit copy/edit paste to copy something; I can do ctl-c,ctl-v on
a Chromebook but don't know how to do that on a tablet.

just fyi, I'm using an Ipad.

To copy / edit / paste with an iPad, once you are in a dialog window, tap twice on a spot. The "select / select all " bubble appears. Choose it, and that word is then just highlighted in blue, with black dots on each side. With this highlighted area you can copy, cut, paste, replace. Slide the dots to expand the highlighted area.

 

[ERD50]

Originally Posted by ERD50 View Post
But if it is so well thought out, why do so many here find it clumsy?

The rest of my message explained why.

Sorry, I really didn't see any 'why' in your 'explanation'. If anything, it just seemed to blame the user?

There are a similar set of developer standards, I'm sure. I am not an app developer. My business is web.

Originally Posted by ERD50 View Post
And it's not just a matter of adapting, IMO.

Yet, there are millions more people engaged through the web now that mobile technology is so accessible to them.

Why throw in a red herring? Mobile technology is popular for many reasons. That doesn't mean the interface doesn't have serious gaps, it only means those gaps aren't so bad that it keeps people from using their devices at all.

Heck, I can use my tablet for hours w/o having to go in and edit text, or do much of the things I find clumsy. But when I do need to do those things, I wish it was easier. That doesn't keep me from using my tablet, or others from using their smart phones. With your logic, we'd still start our cars with a crank - they sold plenty of crank start Model T Fords, why make it better?

-ERD50