Alcoholism

[jimandthom]

From personal/past experience, these are my 2 cents, for whatever they are worth.

Alcohol abuse/addiction is the visible symptom. At his young age, you mention anxiety issues, being a loner etc --that should be the issue to understand.

I will also say that religion, not God, was very much near or at the center of issues. I recalled the songs in Sunday school --- "Jesus loves the little children" etc. Yet religious doctrine would say that I was going to go to hell because of "deviant" thoughts. Try being 10 years old and have that go through your mind.

He has a inner conflict with something that does not square up with what he believes the world says or believes he was taught.

Your screen name says "MuirWannabe." I'm a fan of Aldo Leopold myself.

What would Muir say?

 

[MuirWannabe]

From personal/past experience, these are my 2 cents, for whatever they are worth.

Alcohol abuse/addiction is the visible symptom. At his young age, you mention anxiety issues, being a loner etc --that should be the issue to understand.

I will also say that religion, not God, was very much near or at the center of issues. I recalled the songs in Sunday school --- "Jesus loves the little children" etc. Yet religious doctrine would say that I was going to go to hell because of "deviant" thoughts. Try being 10 years old and have that go through your mind.

He has a inner conflict with something that does not square up with what he believes the world says or believes he was taught.

Your screen name says "MuirWannabe." I'm a fan of Aldo Leopold myself.

What would Muir say?

The alcoholism and social anxiety certainly interact to make him who he is. The social anxiety arose out of significant bullying in high school. And God may have knit him somewhat that way anyway.

I do not believe there are any hidden inner conflicts beyond the addiction and anxiety behavior. He is not struggling with his faith. He simply does not consider it at all.

What would John Muir say? I don’t know. He was certainly a faith oriented man. Perhaps the following quote of his.
“Everybody needs beauty as well as bread, places to play in and pray in, where nature may heal and give strength to body and soul alike.”

Thanks for your thoughts.

 

[socca]

My uncle gave me a glass of rural Missouri unpasteurized, unfiltered apple cider when I was a kid, and I was instantly hooked. Maybe it was the alcohol content, maybe not. In any case, I haven't had a finer beverage since (and that was 50 years ago ).

I've always been a teetotaler. Alcohol is a known neurotoxin, and I need every last neuron I can get to help with my intellectually-demanding recreational activities. My sympathy to those folks struggling with alcohol addiction - sounds nasty.

 

[slowsaver]

Having attended Alanon for years, I have a warm spot in my heart for AA; however, it's worth pointing out that AA only works for somewhere between 5-10% of people who go. (You learn not to get your hopes-up in Alanon.)

I heard a very good/interesting radio story about how European countries treat alcoholism. Apparently, they prescribe drugs that can block cravings and 'reward' mechanisms for alcohol use. It basically takes most of the joy out of drinking. It is very, very effective. Much better success rate than AA's 5-10%.

I think one of those drugs is called Vivitrol. You might want to consider it. It isn't widely prescribed in the U.S., partly because our culture views alcoholics as people with character flaws, and AA is the only way to treat character flaws, I guess. Personally, I think people should go with what works... or at least consider it.

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

I am so sorry for the OP's situation and others here that have shared their stories. Alcoholism "runs" in my family and I have been keenly aware of that and made my choices accordingly.

Just this week, an aunt of mine was hospitalized with a plethora of conditions related to her smoking and alcohol consumption. Last I heard, they were getting ready to shock her to get her heart back in rhythm. Her ex-husband was a terrible drunk and was almost shot by my Dad years ago when he came busting through the door late on night after drinking for 3 days straight.

It's all a very bad deal, but ultimately I think it's up to the alcoholic to make the decision to stop what they are doing. Until that happens, there isn't a whole lot that you can do about it.

 

[SimpleMom]

A friend gave me a book "One Day at a Time in Al-Anon" which really helped me late at night when I couldn't sleep, worried about our 22 year old son's drinking and DUI. Helps to understand that you cannot control their drinking and that getting angry at them only makes them and you feel worse. Force never works. From page 196 in that book: "I suggest you stop taking action. The only force that can change the alcoholic's pattern is the pressure that builds up inside him when the family refuses to react any longer. When he can't count on your helping him, when you won't assuage his guilt by fighting with him, and you refuse to get him out of trouble then he'll be compelled to face up to things. In other words, try inaction instead of constantly figuring out something to do about him."


I later went to one Al-Anon meeting with a friend whose son was in trouble but didn't really click with the style of the meeting. I liked the part after the formal meeting when everyone could just chat and share more easily. Bought a second book there, "Courage to Change" but didn't go to another meeting. I highly recommend the books as a way to get unstuck from feeling overwhelmed, especially at 3am... [The books are available at meetings and also online at Barnes and Noble.] Take care.

 

[gooddog]

Does anyone have any advice or other ideas/experiences that might be helpful in this situation?

As cold as this may sound, make sure none of your assets are tied to him in any way - protect yourself. The vast majority of substance abusers (and that does include alcohol) can't be convinced to change their ways. Instead, they have to hit a place where they recognize the mess they are in. The most senseless crime there is is killing someone while drunk. Hope it works out for you, but it usually doesn't.

 

[WFL]

Smart Recovery

Here's a program with for addicts with a family support component, free and online. It works alone or alongside other programs, such as AA.

https://www.smartrecovery.org/

There's also a book you may find helpful:
Beyond Addiction: How Science and Kindness Help People Change


It is not very well known, but there is some research to back up their approach.

Best wishes to you and your family.

 

[rando348]

There's a place in Seattle called Schick Shadel https://www.schickshadel.com/

They do aversion therapy (google it) and counseling. Its an alternative that you can look into. Insurance may cover it but if not it'll be 20K for 10 days. Being from Seattle I know people who have gone and had success. I hear they have over 50% success where other rehab places have less than 10% and even AA has a very low success rate even though its the most popular.

I heard Schick was opening up other clinics in other states but you'll have to investigate.

You can PM me if you want and I can tell you what else I know about it. Good luck my friend!

 

[isisdave]

Been there, done that, with our son, including the DWI. He's 27 now and 4 years sober in a month or so.

In California, a first DUI will cost about $10,000. His was more as he already had too many points from speeding tickets, and this tossed him into the "negligent driver" category, which cost an extra bundle to minimize. He got a $1750 fine (suspended), and several weeks of house arrest. AA was required, as well as alcohol education classes. Since then, they've added the requirement for an in-car breath analyzer. All expensive. There's a six-month license suspension. I think this is not universally fair, as parents will often be called upon to be the driver. Ten-year probation, where ANY percentage of alcohol will be another DUI. Wretched expensive car insurance for a while, and if he's on yours they may exclude him at renewal. Your state may vary, but probably not by much.

Although you can't make him want to recover, if he's on your insurance until 26 you might as well make a try at a recovery/rehab program now if he's willing. My problem with AA is that the clientele is often NOT what he needs to be friends with, yet that is the friend pool that's going to be open to him. Push him to get a job -- not fast food, but something like Home Depot. Our son resisted this for a while (also insecure and socially shy), and was amazed at how much he liked it when he tried it. In three weeks he was running the paint department un-monitored.

This is hard: don't enable him. After discussing it with spouse, make it clear that you won't be bailing him out again, so he'd better have some friends. You may need to amend your own drinking habits. We never drank much, but we removed the alcohol from the house when we were on vacation without him, and we didn't drink when he was present. It seemed respectful not to expect him to look at it.

Consider Al-Anon to enhance your understanding, get practical tips, and to be grateful for the fact, which you will quickly learn, that things could be a LOT worse. Good luck.

 

[troutnut1]

I celebrated 20 years sober on 11/21/2019 thanks to AA and Alanon. I’m what’s called a “double winner” because I am alcoholic and have been affected by family members and children with drug and alcohol problems. While AA doesn’t work for everyone their first time, don’t pay much attention to atheist and agnostic AA bashers who never hung around long enough to find out that AA doesn’t demand that you believe anything religious. The founder himself (Bill Wilson) had a major aversion to organized religion and frowned on anything to religious. But the materials were written in a vastly different time and what would have been considered light references to a Higher Power are often taken wrong by the HBO, Cinemax, and Showtime crowd. They are perfectly fine with hours upon hours of crude obcenity, but wither if someone should say “Higher Power” or “God of their understanding” as a suggestion.

Calico said so many great things I see no need to repeat them here. Don’t deprive your son of the normal consequences of his actions because of your love for him. The best way to take care of him is to get to Alanon and take good care of yourself. Your son is not a bad person who needs to be good, but rather a sick person who needs to get well. It IS a legit disease. Without help it is chronic (incureable), progressive (over time it always gets worse, never better), and terminal (it kills a lot of nice people). If you get educated about the disease you are far less likely to do something stupid and hurt his chances for recovery by doing things like bailing him out.

There is great hope! 20 years ago I was broke and broken. Unemployed and unemployable. Thanks to AA I retired last November with 20 years sober and a 7 figure net worth. Now I spend my time at places like this instead of drinking and smoking myself to death. I wish you and your son well. This disease cannot be “cured” in the traditonal sense. But it can be put in “sustained remission” with a little help and the right attitude.

 

[troutnut1]

I should also mention that there are NO success rates available for AA, nor are any possible, now or in the future. AA has millions of members in every country of the world. But we are anonymous in that nobody knows who we are, and nobody keeps track in any way of who stays sober or not. You are a member when you, and you alone, decide to be. There is no application. There are no dues or fees for membership. Certainly no way to keep track of success. Anyone who says otherwise is grossly misinformed on intentionally misleading readers for their own purposes whatever that may be.

 

[MuirWannabe]

I should also mention that there are NO success rates available for AA, nor are any possible, now or in the future. AA has millions of members in every country of the world. But we are anonymous in that nobody knows who we are, and nobody keeps track in any way of who stays sober or not. You are a member when you, and you alone, decide to be. There is no application. There are no dues or fees for membership. Certainly no way to keep track of success. Anyone who says otherwise is grossly misinformed on intentionally misleading readers for their own purposes whatever that may be.

I’m glad to read of your success story. Thanks for the heartfelt advice.

I agree that AA and Al-Anon are good programs for those who seek help. There are other avenues for help as well that have been mentioned in this thread. But all of them start with the addicted one desiring help in the first place. I’m hoping my son really wants help. Time will tell. For now, one day at a time.

 

[sfbrown]

No one should have to go through what you're going through, but it's something I've worried about from time to time with both of my kids.

There used to be something called Alanon. Is that still a thing? Hope so. It was supposed to be something that helped people who were not alcoholics, but who were deeply affected by alcoholism. If they no longer exist, there's got to be something to come along to replace it, even if it is only a good therapist for you and your spouse. Good luck.

 

[Fynen]

My sympathy

Really sorry to hear of your son. I've a lot of experience with alcoholism as it runs in my family. My son is now 45 and is a serve alcoholic. He is highly intelligent and well educated. However nothing he or my wife and I do helps. He swears at least once a month he'll stop drinking, but starts again within a week. A big part of the problem is the public attitude towards alcoholism. The very great majority of the public, including doctors, think alcohol dependency is a bad life choice rather than a serious illness. "Why doesn't he just quit?" is their attitude. My son has again and again been turned away from hospitals and left to lie in the street to vomit and convulse. He has excellent health insurance that would cover him, but the medical and political authorities would rather ignore him than to cure him. He needs an institution to stay for a period where he could dry out and be given the psychiatric help he needs. So you have my sincere sympathy, but I can't offer any advice that has worked for me.

 

[Jollyquick]

I had a colleague that drank himself to death even though he was under professional treatment (military alcohol rehabilitation program). He drank right through the Antabuse. I had another colleague that turned his life around and kicked the habit in the same program and has been sober for decades. I have family members that consume what many would consider to be a high quantity of alcohol daily, but have no job, health, or social issues. I would consider them to be High Functioning Alcoholics (Europeans have a different view on alcohol consumption). The point is alcoholism is a very personal disease and alcoholics must come to terms with it, accept it, then decide what they’re going to with it: Let it kill you. Abstain entirely. Or take control of it. No one else can make that decision for them. Help them, pray for them, confront them, yes. But in the end it’s between them, the demon in the bottle, and their God (or lack thereof).

 

[psweath]

Since you said, "We are Christians", have a look at Celebrate Recovery (celebraterecovery.com). It's a Christ-Centered 12-Step recovery program based on the AA model, but with more (much more) of the spiritual component. You can find a group finder on the website which will direct you to a local church holding the meetings. I'm in my 22nd year of sobriety - the first 6 years I just gutted it out, forced myself not to drink, but I wasn't really free. Finding Celebrate Recovery helped me realize that, for me, it was a spiritual problem and Celebrate Recovery introduced me to a spiritual solution that completely relieved my obsession to drink and drug. Maybe it will help your son as well. I pray it will.

 

[Wishing]

My alcoholic grandfather died of complications of a broken leg (broke it while on a binge), and my parents had alcohol issues (weekend alcoholics). I was always cognizant of my drinking, and loathe to let it happen to me. But I still knowingly married an alcoholic - the relationship lasted almost 40 years, but the marriage finally died after 30 years. There's always the "if I love him enough, he will quit drinking', but it doesn't work that way in real life. There is nothing any single individual can do to stop an alcoholic if he or she doesn't want to quit. My ex never bought into the twelve step program -said it was "too religious" for him. I'm currently in a relationship with a compulsive gambler who has embraced GA for over 10 years - after he lost everything (wife, family, job, etc.). Addiction in every form is a bitch, and the addict has to want to quit the substance, behavior, etc. A longtime friend and colleague recently confessed that he has been sober for over 10 years and that his wife is a chronic alcoholic - he lied for her for years saying that she had issues with diabetes. Rehab has not worked for her - she just learned how to be more stealthy with her drinking.

 

[arch57]

Boy this thread really hit home as our son (he's 36 now) admitted he was an alcoholic one year into our retirement. He was never a big drinker so this was a big shock. He was living in another state then and got a DUI and totaled his car, then lost his business because he couldn't get to work, then got kicked out by his girlfriend, the first girl he admitted he ever really loved. So yes it was a downward spiral.

Contrary to some schools of thought we took him in in Nov 2017 as he was homeless and would likely have drank himself to death. It was a terrible couple of months home and then the "rock-bottom" came a couple of weeks before Christmas when he was found wandering our neighborhood in freezing temps totally inebriated so thankfully a neighbor saw him, called police and they got an ambulance to hospitalize him. However, he also was arrested for carrying a weapon while intoxicated and a felony charge for carrying without a permit. He ended up in psych-ward for 5 days and we gave him an ultimatum to seek a 28-day intensive program or end up going to a homeless shelter that the social worker had found. That was the hardest decision my wife and I had to make but we called his bluff and he chose the program. It was modeled after AA, using many of the principals and it was the beginning of a long struggle but it was a great starting point to sober him up.

I was very, very angry and my anger was ruining my life and our relationship until I sought out Al-Anon and private counseling. It opened my eyes and forced me to see this as a disease not a character flaw. Another turning point came a few weeks after he got home when during a heated discussion he turned to me with tears in his eyes and said "Dad I'm not you okay? Don't you see that?" That was after I kept-up my usual harping on him to do this and just do that, etc. because I'm a type-A hard charger and I realized he's just not wired like that.

Since then he settled his legal issues (no jail, no felony but probation) and has been sober and diligent about his recovery attending sessions 3 days a week. In this time we discovered he has Asperger's, a mild form of autism, and a severe anxiety disorder in social situations (hence why the alcohol helped). He's working on those issues but it's not easy. He freezes on the phone when he gets a call back for a job, he lacks self-confidence but now instead of criticizing him we are more patient and understanding and it has helped everyone. My thoughts and support out to everyone here facing similar crisis' and keep hoping for the best.

 

[haha]

This is a very painful thread, and many very loving people have posted their experiences with alcohol and alcoholics.

My Dad was a weekend party drinker into middle age. He had never missed work. But when I was already on my own in a different city, he fell down in the snow during a very cold midwestern winter in the late 60s. Someone at home noticed that he had not come home, and my high school age brothers found him unconscious in the snow and brought him home.

That was enough for him. He quit drinking and lived close to age 90.

I drank too much in college at a drinking school. But it seems to have been situational for me, and I am happy to have no ongoing issues with alcohol. Booze can be fun, but it can also cause a lot of difficulties. I am grateful that these days when I feel like I am not doing very well in some way or another, this tends to move me away from the juice rather than toward it.

Ha

 

[troutnut1]

for sfbrown’s question the answer is yes. Alanon Family Groups still exist and are doing very well. With help, the families and friends of alcoholics can have happy lives whether the drinker stops drinking or not

I forgot to mention that drinking is very expensive, and most alcoholics don’t have the resources on their own to even be alcoholics. Instead they rely on the genorosity and resources of some family member or friends to fund their addiction. We help keep them sick thinking we are somehow helping them. That’s one of the reasons we need help and training provided by groups like Alanon.

 

[jim584672]

I read Naltrexone can be useful in treating alcoholism. It is an opioid antagonist that blocks the way alcohol works on the brain.

 

[sreitter]

I, along with my husband, have attended a meeting for parents' of children who suffer from addiction for many years. It is an Al-Anon, Nar-Anon meeting.

We have learned many life saving lessons:
~Learn to love your child in another way.
~You, your spouse, the addict's significant other, or the addict's best friends etc. cannot make your addicted child better, only they can.
~You have possibly become as sick as your addicted child. My son was the alcoholic, but I was the crazy person trying everything to fix him. Focus on yourself. Practice self-care.
~Most addictions have a connection to mental illness. Just as alcoholism is a disease and treatable, the mental illness is important for the person who suffers from addiction to address and seek treatment.
~We learned not to be so enmeshed in our child's life. His life and choices are his business.

Our son has been through eleven treatment programs, including nine months at Hazelden/Betty Ford and three months at the Salvation Army.

The journey is long, into it's twelfth year. We have found a way to live our lives and to enjoy them.
At the end of our meetings we all say "Keep coming back, it works if you work it!" Those words I have found to be very true!! Good Luck!!

 

[IMATERP]

Muir-

I feel for you & what you’re experiencing. Based on what seems like a lifetime of experience with the disease of alcoholism, here’s what I recommend:

- Insist that your son attend AA; 90 meetings in 90 days, and find a solid sponsor; this is NOT negotiable.
- You should attend Al-Anon; see if it works for you & continue if it does. If Al-Anon doesn’t work for you, read as much as you can.
- While religion may be important to you & your family, it will not solve your son’s problems or yours. Think of this as a disease & how best to deal with it; it’s something that requires treatment, not faith.

Best to you & your family.

+1

I’d have to agree. I hit my bottom 29+ years ago and I needed a program very badly. I just didn’t realize how unmanageable my life had become. I’m glad that the sobriety Gods came to my rescue.

Next time he calls you from jail or from some other predicament - drop off the book Alcoholics Anonymous for him. I wouldn’t bail him out anymore, though.

I

 

[sgstaley]

It has always been told to me that family members RARELY get through to alcoholics to the point that the alcoholic will follow the advice of the family member.
Where I live, the court system pretty well makes the convict go to AA meetings as part of the sentence. If that happens to your son and your son goes to the meetings without a chip on his shoulder, and actually embraces the AA principles, he might actually figure out the high cost of living such a low lifestyle and determine that he needs to change and that there are people there willing to walk the extra mile with him.
There is also a Christian based "AA type" group called "Celebrate Recovery." I believe that it has to do with any kind of chemical abuse, but I don't really know enough to give you any feedback.
I truly hope that your son decides to change the path that he is on and realizes that it all starts with staying sober, even if it is for one hour at a time.
God bless and thank you for sharing your story with us. I hope your boy finds peace through sobriety.