Apple v FBI

[samclem]

All without cracking one iPhone!

How would we know that? Hopefully, we would not.

 

[MichaelB]

Bloomberg is reporting that the US has dropped the case against Apple. U.S. Drops Apple Case After Getting Into Terrorist’s iPhone - Bloomberg Business

The U.S. said it has successfully gained access to the data on the iPhone used by a man in a San Bernardino, California, terrorism attack and no longer needs Apple Inc.’s assistance.

 

[easysurfer]

Bloomberg is reporting that the US has dropped the case against Apple. U.S. Drops Apple Case After Getting Into Terrorist’s iPhone - Bloomberg Business

Kind of surprised the FBI didn't consider the approach of using a third party from the start.

 

[M Paquette]

Meanwhile, Apple will be building their own servers for their various operations:

Report: Apple designing its own servers to avoid snooping | Ars Technica

This was a fun one. When Edward Snowden leaked some NSA slides, Apple's IT team and C-suite were surprised to learn that they were providers of PRISM data since Oct 2012.

View attachment 23541

Guess what they found when they did a rack-by-rack, wire-by-wire inventory and check against their plans for the server farms and storage mesh?

Pixies in the hardware... Your tax dollars at work...

 

[explanade]

Because their goal went beyond getting access to the phone.

 

[braumeister]

Because their goal went beyond getting access to the phone.

I don't think this was ever about access to that particular phone, but about establishing a legal precedent. Nothing wrong with that, but perhaps the FBI was a bit disingenuous in describing what they wanted.

 

[ls99]

So is the FBI guilty of perjury? If so who goes to Jail?

From TechDirt:
" iPhone Forensics Experts Demonstrate Basic Proof Of Concept That The iPhone Hack The FBI Says 'Doesn't Work' Actually Does Work

from the the-fbi-lied-again? dept

When the DOJ announced that the FBI may have miraculously found a way in to Syed Farook's work iPhone after swearing to a court that such a thing was impossible, many people zeroed in on the possibility of "NAND Mirroring" as the technique in question. After all, during a Congressional hearing, Rep. Darrell Issa had gone fairly deep technically (for a Congressperson, at least) in asking FBI Director James Comey if the FBI had tested such a method. Well-known iPhone forensics guru Jonathan Zdziarski wrote up a good blog post explaining why such a technique was the most likely. While recognizing that there are other possibilities, he does a good job breaking down why none of the other possibilities are all that likely, ....."

https://www.techdirt.com/articles/2...fbi-says-doesnt-work-actually-does-work.shtml

 

[audreyh1]

Kind of surprised the FBI didn't consider the approach of using a third party from the start.

They had a much broader agenda.

 

[CaliforniaMan]

They had a much broader agenda.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, I don't think the FBI ever had any intention of taking Apple to court, they just had too much to loose, but no problem if they could get the tech industry to cower a bit before them. I think it backfired on them.

 

[Senator]

Apple’s attorneys told reporters on a conference call that if the government managed to break into the encrypted iPhone, the company would insist on receiving all the details so the company could work to develop some software protection for the iPhone’s vulnerability.

Apple vs. FBI: Suddenly, the script has flipped - MarketWatch

The FBI maybe bluffing, who knows. I hope they were able to get into the phone's data. No way the FBI is going to give up the info. Apple may have to buy it themselves.

Nothing is invincible.

 

[ERD50]

Kind of surprised the FBI didn't consider the approach of using a third party from the start.

And how do you know they didn't approach third parties from the start, in parallel with trying to get it from Apple, in case the third parties hit a dead end?

I'd assume they followed several different paths in parallel.

-ERD50

 

[audreyh1]

And how do you know they didn't approach third parties from the start, in parallel with trying to get it from Apple, in case the third parties hit a dead end?

I'd assume they followed several different paths in parallel.

-ERD50

Because they told the judge that that using the All Writs Act in this manner was necessary because only Apple could do it, and Apple had to use the particular technique they specified?

I believe the All Writs Act may only be applied when all other avenues are exhausted.

Application of the All Writs Act requires the fulfillment of four conditions:[3]

• The absence of alternative remedies—the act is only applicable when other judicial tools are not available.
• An independent basis for jurisdiction—the act authorizes writs in aid of jurisdiction, but does not in itself create any federal subject-matter jurisdiction.
• Necessary or appropriate in aid of jurisdiction—the writ must be necessary or appropriate to the particular case.
• Usages and principles of law—the statute requires courts to issue writs "agreeable to the usages and principles of law."

from Wikipedia

 

[easysurfer]

Because they told the judge that that using the All Writs Act in this manner was necessary because only Apple could do it, and Apple had to use the particular technique they specified?

I believe the All Writs Act may only be applied when all other avenues are exhausted.

from Wikipedia

That's a good point.

In the end, looks like even Apple could run but can't hide from the fed.

I'm just glad the fed didn't say anything about having help from Russia or China to gain access .

 

[Midpack]

With the other iOS and Android phones the FBI and various AG's and DA's reportedly want to crack, it won't be long before we all know who, if anyone, cracked the San Bernadino iPhone...

This was never about one phone, the fundamental issue remains, and needs to be debated thru Congress and judiciary. And Apple has already said it will continue to enhance security for their devices. So will Google and others...

 

[GrayHare]

Such situations are ripe for disinformation. For all we know perhaps Apple actually did assist the FBI with the phone, and the current story is a cover, merely part of a brokered deal to help Cook save face. I don't think that's what happened, but it's one of the possibilities.

 

[Jack_Pine]

Such situations are ripe for disinformation. For all we know perhaps Apple actually did assist the FBI with the phone, and the current story is a cover, merely part of a brokered deal to help Cook save face. I don't think that's what happened, but it's one of the possibilities.

So true, between mega corp and government what's not to trust?

 

[ERD50]

Because they told the judge that that using the All Writs Act in this manner was necessary because only Apple could do it, and Apple had to use the particular technique they specified?

I believe the All Writs Act may only be applied when all other avenues are exhausted.

from Wikipedia

I would still think they could be trying things in parallel - they had no idea whether the alternatives could work. At what point do you say all other avenues are exhausted? Do you have to listen to every crackpot with every hairbrained idea on how to crack it?

I think it still makes sense to assume only Apple could do it, until somebody proves otherwise.

-ERD50

 

[samclem]

All's well that ends well. The FBI has reportedly found a way into the phone and can now move ahead with this investigation and, more generally, US law enforcement and other legally authorized entities can also fulfill warrants and other legally justified purposes for accessing the data on these phones. Yes, that same method might be used by other customers of whoever the FBI has contracted with, but that would have been the case in any event. Apple's failure to provide assistance to the USG has helped a small company gain notoriety and their product has been highlighted as a useful one, so they may get more business. A happy ending for all. Thank you, Apple!

 

[explanade]

And everyone use 6 digits instead of 4 digits.

Maybe Apple will introduce alphanumeric pass codes too.

And criminals will know to use burner phones.

 

[Midpack]

So the FBI paid Cellibrite $15K to crack the SB iPhone. Conflicting reports on whether they've accessed data yet, some reports say they have, others say the FBI contracted with http://www.cellebrite.com/?gclid=CJTSlrv_5ssCFZY1aQodC98FTg. Since there's nothing useful on the phone, we may never know.

 

[easysurfer]

Guess the moral of the story is "don't put all your eggs in one basket" as the FBI did, assuming only Apple could crack the iPhone.

Maybe in the end, this is a win win. Apple will try to make future phone even more secure (or self-destruct faster ) and the FBI can use the 3rd party approach as an alternative of having to go the court route.

 

[CRLLS]

I don't think that the FBI dropped the case out of the goodness of their heart. They just put a big hole in one of the premises for the All Writs Act, that they can get the info from somewhere else. That basically kills the warrant, no?

 

[samclem]

And criminals will know to use burner phones.

Yep, but they know that already. A lot of crooks aren't very bright or disciplined, and like many of us they figure "it won't happen to me." All of that helps cops quite a bit.

 

[audreyh1]

I don't think that the FBI dropped the case out of the goodness of their heart. They just put a big hole in one of the premises for the All Writs Act, that they can get the info from somewhere else. That basically kills the warrant, no?

Yes.

 

[M Paquette]

And everyone use 6 digits instead of 4 digits.

Maybe Apple will introduce alphanumeric pass codes too.

This has already been done.

In System Settings, go to the Touch ID and Passcode setting. Touch for New Passcode. You'll enter your old passcode, then get a panel to set a new one. On that panel is Passcode Options. One of the options is Set An Alphanumeric Passcode. Pick that and enter an arbitrary password.



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