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Old 10-08-2014, 07:14 PM   #41
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... And Microsoft has it's claws out like never before based on my Win 8.x experience - it took quite an effort to avoid sharing a lot of info they "expected."
Could you elaborate on this? Is it the operating system you are referring to or the apps using it?

I have no experience with Win 8.x but will probably wind up buying a Win 8.x laptop as a present. Win 7 seemed OK on both a desktop and laptop. No social connection intrusiveness that I recall.

From my experience with the Nexus 7 and Nexus 5 phone I'd agree that a lot of the app stuff is intrusive trying to do a lot of social stuff my knowing the user. But the Chrome OS is not a problem. I have no idea if the Iphone and Ipad apps are any better.
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Old 10-08-2014, 07:33 PM   #42
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Could you elaborate on this? Is it the operating system you are referring to or the apps using it?

I have no experience with Win 8.x but will probably wind up buying a Win 8.x laptop as a present. Win 7 seemed OK on both a desktop and laptop. No social connection intrusiveness that I recall.
I don't remember every detail, but I realized almost immediately that I'd better be on my toes when I first set it up. When you start up a new PC with Win 8.x for the first time, you're required to register for an account with Microsoft. And then at every turn after that as it sets itself up, it seems to ask for more personal information - and register your email addresses and other accounts whether you want to or not. I was able to avoid most if it, but they go to some lengths to make it difficult and/or make it seem as though the personal info is "required." It also seemed all the various live file apps and Office try to make users think OneDrive (the Microsoft cloud) is the default file save location. You can undo most if not all of it, but they don't make how obvious. Personal information has become too valuable/irresistible to Google, Microsoft, Yahoo, Amazon, Facebook and others IMO.
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Old 10-08-2014, 10:20 PM   #43
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You would definitely see an improvement on that 6-year old iMac, esp. with the Fusion drive.

But there are also rumors of an iMac with Retina display, perhaps to be announced next week (10/16) where they're definitely expected to announce new iPads.
No doubt, but I don't have need for a new desktop yet!
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Old 10-08-2014, 10:27 PM   #44
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Apple Vs MS.....never ends..both are pretty good. I'll have Karmel Korn if you have it!

My "home built" desktop with the AMD dual core processor, 4 GB RAM, etc has been running daily since 2007 (Raid setup). The only time it was off was during power failures or when we moved. It still runs XP very smoothly. I lost the high end sound card so I plugged the speakers into the headphone slot. One 10,000 RPM raid drive failed (expensive Western Digital) but it had a 5 year warranty.

Oh, every new year (since I have no computer work at that time), I pull the side cover off and vacuum out the dust and dead bugs.

This has been my main consulting "report writing" and general internet machine and it has out lived about 4 printers, a sound card, one HDD, and a keyboard. I have the same Logitech mouse I bought about 10 years ago (its got crust on it).

Oh, computer don't get viruses, computer operators' give them viruses.
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Old 10-09-2014, 07:17 AM   #45
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I am in Midpack's camp to a degree. I don't think PCs are better than Macs, just the opposite. But I am comfortable with PCs and I can put them together cheaper than a Mac. Also, like Midpack, I have no problem getting a long life out of a PC (desktop, laptops are another matter) although I help others (in my volunteer gig) dig out of messed up PCs frequently. I also have and like both iPads and iPhones. My biggest complaint with them is iTunes and an the Apple Store. What a PITA. I find it to be a major hassle just to clear some books, photos, or music I don't like off my iOS devices. Yeah, I know people who master the Mac do it with ease but I feel like I have to memorize some arcane process rather than intuitively find and delete the files.

The biggest problem for me is I just don't feel at home on a Mac. I am used to dealing directly with the PC's hierarchical file system, tweaking settings and the like. Macs intentionally hide all that stuff. It is a positive feature for most - just not me. I recognize that the underlying Unix OS is available to me on the Mac but I don't want to go through the learning curve to figure it out. (Note: I have installed and run Linux servers for my family website for years but I never felt as comfortable with them as the PC so mastering the Mac innards would still be a learning curve).

For now I will stay with the PC myself and keep fixing them for old folks. But I often recommend Macs for people who don't have a clue about why things go wrong all the time with their PCs.
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Old 10-09-2014, 08:04 AM   #46
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Last year, while I was still working, one of our bigger security concerns were web based attacks. (Phishing, script enabled attacks, social network exploits, water hole attacks, etc) Since the OS you run is irrelevant to most of these types of attacks, we discovered that our clients who were using Macs were actually a bigger security problem for us. Many of these users had bought into the, "I have a Mac so I don't need to run any protection suite." line of thinking. This made them more susceptible to these web based attacks. 40% of our compromised clients used Macs, but only 5% of our clients were Mac users.

Other types of issues like Malware, are far more common on a PC because people that create these things are smart and want the biggest bang for their time and effort. But the biggest threat we have now is the browser, not the OS. And since browsers must support various standards, they have all been susceptible. Even TOR has been hacked.

Usually the carbon based button pusher is the weak link in the security chain. I would argue that the most secure system is the one you are most familiar with and can therefore best secure it.
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Old 10-09-2014, 08:57 AM   #47
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I'm basically an Apple guy, since I bought my first one (Apple II+) in 1980 and have bought innumerable others over the years (currently use a MacBook Pro).
My brother still has my old Apple II+. I loved that machine. I probably got more mileage out of it than any other computer I have ever owned.
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Old 10-09-2014, 09:38 AM   #48
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I have always used a Windows PC and would never consider switching to Apple. I don't feel like going through the learning curve with Apple. I tried helping a friend with something simple on his Apple laptop recently. It was very frustrating for me...didn't seem very intuitive. Having said that, it's probably because I had never used one before. The other reason I wouldn't make the switch is because Apple products cost more than I'm willing to spend.
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Old 10-09-2014, 10:16 AM   #49
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I have 5 PCs. My laptop is HP Win7. Also 2xXP and 2xVista. All do what I expect of them.

I get good value out of my Win7 laptop. The others are dedicated to special purposes. Purchased used in 2009 for $300. Part of a giveaway that the Telco provided with their new cable service and purchased new from the subscriber. I am impressed with Win7.

Not so impressed with my Samsung Android phone. Will probably upgrade to an iPhone 4S when the prices get down far enough. Prepaid plan.
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Old 10-09-2014, 10:30 AM   #50
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Other types of issues like Malware, are far more common on a PC because people that create these things are smart and want the biggest bang for their time and effort. But the biggest threat we have now is the browser, not the OS. And since browsers must support various standards, they have all been susceptible. Even TOR has been hacked.

Usually the carbon based button pusher is the weak link in the security chain. I would argue that the most secure system is the one you are most familiar with and can therefore best secure it.
All of this is definitely true. As a user, I prevent most malware. That said, I also know that hackers and the like want bang for the buck, so it's always made sense to me to swim upstream in that regard.
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Old 10-09-2014, 10:30 AM   #51
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Yes, I will also place an order for the caramel pop corn. And maybe some of the cheesy popcorn also?

These discussions are fun. But, in the end we are talking about some very sophisticated machines. And they are just that - only machines.
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Old 10-09-2014, 10:32 AM   #52
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Phishing, script enabled attacks, social network exploits, water hole attacks, etc) Since the OS you run is irrelevant to most of these types of attacks, we discovered that our clients who were using Macs were actually a bigger security problem for us. Many of these users had bought into the, "I have a Mac so I don't need to run any protection suite." line of thinking. This made them more susceptible to these web based attacks. 40% of our compromised clients used Macs, but only 5% of our clients were Mac users.

Other types of issues like Malware, are far more common on a PC because people that create these things are smart and want the biggest bang for their time and effort. But the biggest threat we have now is the browser, not the OS. And since browsers must support various standards, they have all been susceptible. Even TOR has been hacked.
It's best to not run as an Administrator in one's day to day business regardless of what OS/Computer one has. That will neutralize a lot of malware's ability to infect a machine.
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Old 10-09-2014, 10:45 AM   #53
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I have used a MacBook Pro Retina for several years now after having been a Windows/DOS user my entire life. However, I have avoided buying a Mac desktop because I find the resolution on the external monitors to be disappointing after getting used to the retina display.

As several other posters have mentioned earlier, the latest rumor is that Apple is going to announce a desktop with a retina display next week, along with the new iPads. If they do, I would definitely consider a Mac desktop. The retina display just makes using a computer so much more enjoyable.

I don't see myself going back to Windows. I do run Windows 8 on my Mac so that I can use Quicken, but I find it really clumsy and annoying. If I ever replace Quicken with something that runs on Mac, I will no longer have a need to run Windows at all, which would be very nice.

BTW, there was an early rumor that the new iPads would have a glare shielding screen that would allow them to be viewed outdoors in full day light. I've thought about buying a Kindle paperwhite over the years because I like to read books outdoors, but if the iPad rumor turns out to be true, I think it would be a huge improvement. Unfortunately, I haven't seen any mention of it in the latest rumors, so it may turn out not to be true, at least for this round of upgrades.
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Old 10-09-2014, 01:47 PM   #54
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I have always used a Windows PC and would never consider switching to Apple. I don't feel like going through the learning curve with Apple. I tried helping a friend with something simple on his Apple laptop recently. It was very frustrating for me...didn't seem very intuitive. Having said that, it's probably because I had never used one before.
I suspect just being confronted with something different was the issue, not that the Apple OS is more/less intuitive than Windows (which you've had years of experience with). I offer as evidence the mass of experienced Windows users who went completely bonkers when Win8 was rolled out - 'how dare Microsoft actually change anything!!!" And my first lengthy Apple experiences were the iPad and then an iPad, I found both to be extremely intuitive. So much so that I almost bought my first iMac last year, the 60-100% premium was all that stopped me. When I play with iMacs in stores, they don't seem foreign to me anymore, probably because of my iPad experience. YMMV
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Old 10-09-2014, 01:57 PM   #55
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Popcorn, popcorn you say ! The reason I made the original post was to get the various viewpoints as I am seriously thinking about upgrading my Windows PC desktop to an Apple desktop. The discussion and comments have been very good and enlightening to say the least. Thank you to all who have voiced their opinions and thoughts. I will probably hold off for awhile but will probably try the Apple route for the following reasons; its graphic (pictures/movies) intensive capabilities, reliability, and I do like the thought of integrated programs that work flawlessly together, cost and learning curve are not an issue. If I don't care for the Apple, I can always go back. That said, try finding someone who has gone the Apple route and then switched back to Windows PCs, it doesn't seem to happen, ever. I already have two Ipads, an Ipod touch, Iphone and find them very easy to use. I do agree with the comment about ITunes and the Apple store, they need improved on many levels. As for my computer savvy, I've done everything imaginable to a PC from changing processors, adding ram, hard drive, sound/video cards to debugging software conflicts and frankly I am ready for a rock solid platform that Apple seems to provide.
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Old 10-09-2014, 02:00 PM   #56
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Yes, the Apple ecosystem tends to work very well with each part doing its job. And, if one part acts up, you talk to a genius.
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Old 10-09-2014, 02:12 PM   #57
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DW's Iphone refused to accept her security code after a software update yesterday. Of course, I am out of town in Pittsburgh. So she has no phone and I am not around.

She can't call Apple Tech support because she has no phone.

She tries an e-mail but no response.

She goes to the Apple store and has to wait two hours for help because the place was buzzing with shoppers.

They fix her phone.

She asks me last night if I still have her old Motorola Android phone...which, of course, I do. Looks like we can easily activate it with a $10 plan in 5 minutes the next time the Iphone quits.
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Old 10-09-2014, 02:22 PM   #58
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It's best to not run as an Administrator in one's day to day business regardless of what OS/Computer one has. That will neutralize a lot of malware's ability to infect a machine.
Maybe it's just me but on Win 7 I've just found it much more convenient to run from Admin mode. Haven't had any problems yet over 4 years with Win 7.

From Windows XP I used to run some workaround program to bring up the browser in non-Admin mode. I haven't heard of a way to do that in Win 7.
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Old 10-09-2014, 04:16 PM   #59
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DW's Iphone refused to accept her security code after a software update yesterday. Of course, I am out of town in Pittsburgh. So she has no phone and I am not around.

She can't call Apple Tech support because she has no phone.

She tries an e-mail but no response.

She goes to the Apple store and has to wait two hours for help because the place was buzzing with shoppers.

They fix her phone.

She asks me last night if I still have her old Motorola Android phone...which, of course, I do. Looks like we can easily activate it with a $10 plan in 5 minutes the next time the Iphone quits.
One thing to be careful about. If you enable Find My iPhone on an iPhone running iOS7 or later, you have to be absolutely sure of your Apple ID login and password.

If for some reason you can't unlock your phone because it's not accepting your pass code, you'll be unable to reset the phone to factory without that Apple ID.

They put this in as a security measure, in case your iPhone is stolen or lost. The phone either would have to be unlocked with a the correct passcode or with Apple ID unlocking it with Find My iPhone.

With iOS 8, Apple is saying they will encrypt more of the data on the phone (if you're using a passcode or TouchID), to the point where they can't even decrypt your phone, so they would be unable to respond to subpoenas from law enforcement to access the encrypted data.

Since the announcement, Google has said they will do the same and now law enforcement officials like the director of the FBI are complaining that companies are locking up data on personal devices this way, because it could encourage criminals to use such devices.

Of course, before smart phones, did law enforcement have a way to get at incriminating evidence which is all put together in a nice tidy package like a cell phone, which contains all the communications and location tracking?

So yeah if they can't look for incriminating info. in a suspect's iPhone, they might actually have to go back to investigative methods used about 10 years ago, before these modern mobile devices.
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Old 10-09-2014, 04:23 PM   #60
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One thing to be careful about. If you enable Find My iPhone on an iPhone running iOS7 or later, you have to be absolutely sure of your Apple ID login and password.

If for some reason you can't unlock your phone because it's not accepting your pass code, you'll be unable to reset the phone to factory without that Apple ID.

They put this in as a security measure, in case your iPhone is stolen or lost. The phone either would have to be unlocked with a the correct passcode or with Apple ID unlocking it with Find My iPhone.

With iOS 8, Apple is saying they will encrypt more of the data on the phone (if you're using a passcode or TouchID), to the point where they can't even decrypt your phone, so they would be unable to respond to subpoenas from law enforcement to access the encrypted data.

Since the announcement, Google has said they will do the same and now law enforcement officials like the director of the FBI are complaining that companies are locking up data on personal devices this way, because it could encourage criminals to use such devices.

Of course, before smart phones, did law enforcement have a way to get at incriminating evidence which is all put together in a nice tidy package like a cell phone, which contains all the communications and location tracking?

So yeah if they can't look for incriminating info. in a suspect's iPhone, they might actually have to go back to investigative methods used about 10 years ago, before these modern mobile devices.
After reading this (more than once), I am thinking about the good old days of flip phones. Life was easier then, and we could make calls.
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