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Old 02-28-2014, 01:12 PM   #21
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You can get it on a computer without the touchscreen. No problem!
I know that. I figure most peeps at the moment do NOT have a touche screen anyway and they are probably pricey (haven't priced any). Be that as it may, to someone who isn't a Windows maven all the hoo hah on Win 8 seems to suggest, yes, eventually everyone will have to lunge several feet to scroll down OR do all their work on a small hand held thing up close
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Old 02-28-2014, 02:59 PM   #22
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Could you refine/explain that analogy? Microsoft, with all its sham drudgery and broken dreams is generally considered a good thing. That's not what the analogy sounds like
I'd really rather not as don't want to hijack the thread with politics. I just liked the analogy very much. I do think your explanation is pretty spot on (except for the good thing part, but again, that's a political discussion best saved for elsewhere).

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Just as long as we don't start stack-ranking the citizens. I'd hate to think of what would happen to citizens in the bottom quintile...
Turn them into "charms", perhaps?
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Old 02-28-2014, 05:26 PM   #23
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I haven't seen Win 8 yet but I keep hearing about touch screens. I sit at a desk with my hand on a mouse and the screen is about 3 feet away from me. Do they actually expect me to keep constantly standing up and lunging forward to do with my finger tip what I have always done with a mouse? Like scroll a page or click on a link?
Heh. Gorilla Arm.

Try working a near-vertical touchscreen for an hour or two. Your 'touch' arm will start to fee pretty odd. Don't be surprised if you find that you are knuckle-tapping on the screen instead of using a fingertip. Oook!
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Old 02-28-2014, 06:12 PM   #24
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Heh. Gorilla Arm.

Try working a near-vertical touchscreen for an hour or two. Your 'touch' arm will start to fee pretty odd. Don't be surprised if you find that you are knuckle-tapping on the screen instead of using a fingertip. Oook!

Well, thanx for making my point. Whole things sucks unless you do all your computing on a smart phone. Glad somebody sees the cheerful side
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Old 02-28-2014, 06:26 PM   #25
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A little exaggeration above?

I'm not an advocate of touchscreen for desktop PCs but it's not unworkable and it's preferable for tablets and smartphones, with laptops a middle ground. Touchscreen is meant to complement keyboard and mouse/trackpad, not replace them - no one would use touchscreen exclusively for hours. And when to use each is pretty intuitive IF you're used to an iPad or other tablet/smartphone...most people under 50 are.
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Old 02-28-2014, 07:07 PM   #26
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, it wasn't so bad. There were even a few nice features, nothing substantial though.

...
That is exactly how I feel about it .A few nice features but the annoying overweigh the good . Windows 8.1 is like a blind date that looks nice but is so annoying you want to climb out the ladies room window .
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Old 02-28-2014, 07:48 PM   #27
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A little exaggeration above?

I'm not an advocate of touchscreen for desktop PCs but it's not unworkable and it's preferable for tablets and smartphones, with laptops a middle ground. Touchscreen is meant to complement keyboard and mouse/trackpad, not replace them - no one would use touchscreen exclusively for hours. And when to use each is pretty intuitive IF you're used to an iPad or other tablet/smartphone...most people under 50 are.
I still think that people won't want to move from keyboard/mouse to 32" monitor for certain tasks - it just seems unwieldy. And if it is only done occasionally, it hardly seems worth supporting.

I will now boldly predict ( hah-hah, as if there is any repercussion for being 'bold' on an anonymous forum! ), the future will bring us LARGE touchpads for use with large monitors, that serve the same function as a touchscreen.

Think about it, we don't move our mouse on the screen. People 'get it' that that movement is translated, and the cursor shows us what we are doing. Remember how unnatural it was at first, to pick up the mouse and move it over so you re-gained the 'room' to move it further? It's all kind of 'virtual', but we get it. In the same way, we will 'get' a large trackpad that works as a virtual touchscreen. No 'gorilla arms', no need for extra hardware in monitors, or messy screens.

That SA article is way behind the times. I think I shared in another thread that we put touch screens on Mac SE30's in a production environment in the 80's (maybe early 90's?). The operators hated them, due to the Gorilla arm factor. We took them out in short order.


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Old 02-28-2014, 10:49 PM   #28
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That is exactly how I feel about it .A few nice features but the annoying overweigh the good . Windows 8.1 is like a blind date that looks nice but is so annoying you want to climb out the ladies room window .
Curious as to what features you find annoying? I keep it in desktop mode and don't really notice much difference with it and Windows 7 other than Windows 8 starts up a lot faster. I don't use Windows 8 apps or use a touch screen but to me those are just add-ons available if you want them, ignore them if you don't.
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Old 03-01-2014, 09:23 AM   #29
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I will now boldly predict ( hah-hah, as if there is any repercussion for being 'bold' on an anonymous forum! ), the future will bring us LARGE touchpads for use with large monitors, that serve the same function as a touchscreen.
Makes sense to me, but how much bigger than an Apple trackpad (5.17"x"5.12"), and why bigger? I don't have an iMac but I've read the Magic Trackpad is popular, and the Magic Mouse doesn't seem to review well. Laptops all seem to have them these days, some larger than others.

It'll be interesting to see if Apple resists touchscreens for their laptops/desktops. I assume they will resist...
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Old 03-01-2014, 09:32 AM   #30
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Curious as to what features you find annoying? I keep it in desktop mode and don't really notice much difference with it and Windows 7 other than Windows 8 starts up a lot faster. I don't use Windows 8 apps or use a touch screen but to me those are just add-ons available if you want them, ignore them if you don't.
I do use apps and found the ones on windows 8.1 almost unusable . They would not load or update . When I was using the desktop random pages would show up while I was working . I liked the touch screen but it seemed to slow things down . Basically I felt if I could not use half the features why stick with it ?
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Old 03-01-2014, 09:47 AM   #31
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Makes sense to me, but how much bigger than an Apple trackpad (5.17"x"5.12"), and why bigger? ...
As large as my keyboard - ~ about 18" wide, and 7" 'high/deep' (probably at the closest 16x9 aspect ratio to match monitors).

Why? So it would be natural to use as an onscreen virtual keyboard. Plus plenty of tactile resolution for fine work on graphics or other close work.

5" x 5" makes for a cramped virtual keyboard. Yes, I'm imagining this as an (optional) replacement for the keyboard - why go back/forth at all? It works pretty well on phones/tablets - in fact, I think I might like the SWYPE virtual keyboard input system better than a physical keyboard.

For those unfamiliar with SWYPE (not available for IOS AFIAK), it lets you simply make a swiping motion from one 'key' to another in a word, rather than peck out each one. And you don't need to be very accurate, they are great at figuring out the pattern you were aiming for. And if you want to hunt-peck, that works too, it doesn't force you one way or the other. And the auto-correct isn't so 'auto', it's very user-friendly, so you don't end up with weird stuff unintentionally inserted into your text.

If you have an Android device, I highly recommend SWYPE.

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Old 03-01-2014, 10:11 AM   #32
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Curious as to what features you find annoying? I keep it in desktop mode and don't really notice much difference with it and Windows 7 other than Windows 8 starts up a lot faster. I don't use Windows 8 apps or use a touch screen but to me those are just add-ons available if you want them, ignore them if you don't.
I'm not really who you were asking but here is my list.

It's bipolar. They are trying to serve two purposes with a split UI and making sacrifices to both. To me it's a compromise that limits both Metro and the Desktop. After large numbers of corporate clients told Microsoft what they could do with Metro, Microsoft did make a few changes, that make it easier to start in Desktop mode with 8.1. I'm not sure it was enough. It's an OS that doesn't know what it wants to be when it grows up. In the Linux world, the user can usually pick the UI/desktop they want. Once you have installed what you want you have a consistent interface. Consistency is good for productivity. Metro still seems to find ways to get in my way even with the 8.1 version.

Apps are tinker toys. They have a purpose and are quite useful particularly in mobile environments where full applications would be ridiculously cumbersome. In a desktop environment apps often don't have the features you need or want. They may be fine for casual tasks, but have done a very good job of alienating the user trying to do more advanced tasks.

The first time I used a windowing environment on a Mac, it was obvious how it could do certain things better than other systems common at that time. Moving up through Windows and Mac OS versions you usually got more than you lost. Universal print drivers for maximum compatibility, installable fonts, support for larger disks, more memory and better networking features.

Windows 8, seems to mostly be a tiny upgrade with a very large UI difference. Microsoft says it's faster. But that actually depends on your specific system and what you mean by faster. Boot time, USB transfer speed, performance of some specific application, etc. There are benchmarks that go both ways.

Windows 8 is still in its early days with lots of driver bugs being reported. If you just buy a system off the shelf you're probably good. It has been assembled with already tested components. But if you want to do some upgrades like add an SSD or upgrade your graphics card you're more likely to have trouble with it than with Windows 7.

I never used Vista, it had too many compatibility issues that I didn't want to hassle with. Windows 7 was really nothing more than Vista with a large number of the issues addressed and I had little problem with it. Basically like most corporate users, I waited for Vista to be finished and renamed Windows 7, before I bothered with it. When possible I will do the same with Windows 8.
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Old 03-12-2014, 05:44 PM   #33
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Today my new computer arrived with Windows 7 . I feel like an old friend is back . I tried windows 8 and frankly I could not see myself staying with it so I returned it . Dell was so desperate for me to keep it they offered me a huge discount if I would . That does not speak well for windows 8 or the fact that Dell is offering more & more windows 7 computers and at higher prices .
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Old 03-15-2014, 11:47 AM   #34
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Astonishing reason Microsoft built Windows 8:

To make more profits.
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Old 03-15-2014, 01:51 PM   #35
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Today my new computer arrived with Windows 7 . I feel like an old friend is back . I tried windows 8 and frankly I could not see myself staying with it so I returned it . Dell was so desperate for me to keep it they offered me a huge discount if I would . That does not speak well for windows 8 or the fact that Dell is offering more & more windows 7 computers and at higher prices .
I upgraded from XP to 8.1 with no problems. From what I've read, some people did indeed have problems with the UI of 8 that they didn't have once they changed to 8.1.

Anyway, it sounds like you're doing fine with 7.
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Old 03-15-2014, 01:58 PM   #36
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I upgraded from XP to 8.1 with no problems. From what I've read, some people did indeed have problems with the UI of 8 that they didn't have once they changed to 8.1.

Anyway, it sounds like you're doing fine with 7.
Moving from XP to windows 8 there was a few day learning curve to learn how things worked. Once you have spent a few days its becomes second nature. One very good think it boots far faster than Windows 7 and even XP.
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Old 03-15-2014, 02:12 PM   #37
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I upgraded from XP to 8.1 with no problems. From what I've read, some people did indeed have problems with the UI of 8 that they didn't have once they changed to 8.1.
+1. Pretty much my (and DW's) experience too. We both bought a new desktop and a new laptop (her) with 8.1. Found it annoying at first until I figured out when to use Metro and when to use the old style desktop. I still don't get why they dumbed down many of the Metro apps, but I don't use them now that I know what's what. With that, there's no real downside with 8.1 that I can see. However, Microsoft sure did a good job of alienating users, many who has been loyal for decades. Not too smart...

It appears many folks think they have to use Metro, and that may have been largely (but not entirely) true with Win 8. But it's not with 8.1, you can avoid Metro completely now, so there's really no reason to stick with an older OS for us. YMMV
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Old 03-15-2014, 05:20 PM   #38
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Moving from XP to windows 8 there was a few day learning curve to learn how things worked. Once you have spent a few days its becomes second nature. One very good think it boots far faster than Windows 7 and even XP.
+1
When I got Win 8 last fall, I had already heard the horror stories so I immediately installed Start Menu 8 (freeware), actually on the very day I received my new laptop. That helped me with some of my initial difficulties in finding things. After a month or so I uninstalled it because I felt less "at sea" with Win 8.

Windows 8.1 is even better. To me the increase in speed at startup is a huge advantage of both Win 8 and 8.1. I don't care for the Metro interface at all and never use it. In the rare case when I even see it, it's perfectly easy to go to the more familiar user interface; one click and shazam! I'm there.

P.S. - - In a way, it's too bad that Microsoft chose to include the Metro interface even for those who don't like it. It's sort of a waste of space. But then, most computers used to come with a lot of junk on them to get the owner to buy various software or use various websites, so I suppose including Metro isn't any worse than including all that. And, we don't have to use Metro if we don't want to.
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Old 03-15-2014, 08:39 PM   #39
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The Microsoft wanted folks to use metro reminds me of them wanted folks to use IE since that came with the system.

I switched from XP to 7. Installed Classic Shell so the program list from the start button looks similar to XP. I'm content. Old habits die hard
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Old 03-17-2014, 11:41 AM   #40
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I went from a Win 7 laptop to a Win 8 laptop with touchscreen. At startup I upgraded to 8.1. After learning it, I like it better. But not at first. I love the touchscreen, and use it maybe 1/4 of the time. Some things are easier to just touch and some touchpad is easier.
I switched startup to old style desktop.
Starts much faster than Win 7 .
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