Don't Talk to Cops

[Original Wally]

respectfully, I don't really care if YOU go to jail, or get sued. I just want to protect myself.

ANd I am not saying that 98% of us WOULD take a position, just that we each SHOULD consider what we say and to whom we say it. You can ALWAYS talk later, but you can NEVER un-talk once you open your mouth.

AS IN ALL matters, YMMV

 

[Koolau]

Koolau, I think you watch too much television, Hollywood does not reflect reality.

Guilty as charged Malcolm2. I love L & O and I root for the defendant as often at I root for the cops and the prosecutor. I love "Justified" and Breaking Bad". 95% of the folks portrayed in these shows are "bad" - including several LEOs. It's clear to me that the shows I tend to like have a certain moral ambiguity. I gave up on "black hats" vs "white hats" long ago.

But just because these shows are produced by Hollywood does not mean that the techniques they show (getting confessions, over charging defendants, coercing witnesses, etc.) do not happen. Maybe they don't happen as often as these shows portray, but that doesn't mean that they don't ever happen.

Minor as it may sound both DW and I have experience with LEOs attempting to extract a guilty plea (in these cases, for speeding). They lied and they threatened massive overcharging when they had no proof of speeding. My officer started his "schtick" by saying (exact quote) "There are several things I can 'GET' you for." Full disclosure at least in my case. I WAS doing 40 in a 35. But NO ONE on that stretch of road ever gets pulled over for 40 in a 35. Think what you will of me for "getting away with" 40 in a 35.

Nodak's story of the Eagle feather is also a joke, post a link.

I don't have a reference for you and MAYBE it never happened. But, if the law is on the books, it has either been used against someone or it WILL BE in the future. My point (backed up by the lawyer in the video) NO ONE can be aware of all the possible laws he could possibly break. If law enforcement wants to charge YOU with a crime, they can find a way to do it in today's environment of intricate layers of codified regulations and rules. I don't believe it happens on a massive scale, but an individual never knows when he might innocently fall under suspicion. At that point, law enforcement has a huge arsenal at their disposal to "get" you if they choose to.

Honest people (most of you) should just keep being honest. Don't commit a felony. If you do, by all means get a lawyer (a good but honest one) and hope you are one of the criminals that get off.

I think my point is that "honest" people DO commit crimes these days. They don't even know it and they had no intent. But "intent" is not a factor in most crimes (especially environmental, tax, ATF regulations, etc.). As always, YMMV.

 

[utrecht]

respectfully, I don't really care if YOU go to jail, or get sued. I just want to protect myself.

ANd I am not saying that 98% of us WOULD take a position, just that we each SHOULD consider what we say and to whom we say it. You can ALWAYS talk later, but you can NEVER un-talk once you open your mouth.

AS IN ALL matters, YMMV

You can get sued for anything. I could sue you right now for making comments on this forum that offend me. Trust me on this one. I actually have been sued for making comments on an internet forum. You cant live your life in fear of lawsuits and / or being falsely accused of a crime. Might as well become a hermit.

 

[Bestwifeever]

There are so many law enforcement officers, so there surely are some bad ones, but who else are you going to call when you come home to your front door being kicked in, your handbag stolen, your car vandalized? A lawyer first and then the police? That won't seem at all suspicious to the police....

And there are so many citizens, so there surely are some bad ones, but most of the rest of us aren't hiding illegal activities or activities that could be manipulated into seeming illegal. And really, why would the police be at all interested in doing that?

When did the police turn into the bad guys?

 

[Original Wally]

Officer utrech - my point WAS and IS minimizing exposure. I heartily agree it cannot be eliminated. I simply do not see the point in adding ADDITIONAL exposure. To the extent that you DID file suit against me for whatever THAT would trigger my response. I am NOT advocating a preemptive exclusion of normal conversation and discussion with folks. But, rather, ONCE a legal matter rears its head, then it is time to recognize that the situation HAS changed and respond accordingly. That's all.

 

[utrecht]

OK, but that the law professor said not to talk to the cops under any circumstances. Remember that when you are the victim of a crime. Calling the cops would be "additional exposure". You wouldn't want that.

This whole discussion about not talking to the cops for any reason is nothing but paranoia. Its about as dumb as me saying I refuse to go to the doctor because I heard about a guy one time whose doctor gave him the wrong medicine and it killed him.

 

[MichaelB]

When did the police turn into the bad guys?

Robber: this is a stick up...
Victim: Help! Help! someone, call call a lawyer!

Nah, that just doesn't do it for me. I'd rather someone call the police.

And be sure your tinfoil hat is at least two layers thick?

Methinks two layers are not going to be enough.

I've dealt with some of those police in other countries, both in the "help!" and "they want to ask me questions" category. I'll talk with police here anytime. Perspective helps.

 

[Original Wally]

I am NOT saying I would not EVER talk to a Peace Office. Merely that I want an attorney present to protect ME. Criminals have sued victims for "defending themselves" And, AGAIN (for, what, the third time) the CIVIL SIDE is has probably more exposure than the criminal side. Part of it might be that I am here in California, home of Gov MoonBeam. La-la Land. NO FLIPPING WAY would I ever talk without counsel. I am NOT an attorney, and I do NOT want to say somehting inadvertently that will cause ME additional strife.

Re. Officer utrech's comment "when you are the victim of a crime. Calling the cops would be "additional exposure"." That is just silly. The POINT has been to have adequate representation. As a Peace Officer (who I believe take oaths to uphold the Constitution, yes), wouldn't Office u WANT citizens to exercise their rights?

 

[Bestwifeever]

Personally I would rather talk with police than with any lawyer who wants to speak for me to the police (ducking)

This thread is getting sort of funny. Imagine all those kids in the DARE programs and McGruff programs all sitting next to a lawyer as their mouthpieces before they can participate....

 

[Original Wally]

Personally I would rather talk with police than with lawyers

and you are COMPLETELY FREE to do so. I would NEVER want to take that right away from you.

 

[Bestwifeever]

and you are COMPLETELY FREE to do so. I would NEVER want to take that right away from you.

You're too kind.

 

[GalaxyBoy]

It took about 10 seconds using Google to find more information on the presenter of this video. He's a professor at Pat Robertson's Liberty Law School. I believe he mentioned it in the video? He certainly used the word "christian" once or twice which is another clue.

 

[Original Wally]

You're too kind.

Whatever, darling

 

[eridanus]

Christopher Ochoa was convinced by an LEO to confess. Yeah, yeah, he confessed to a crime he didn't commit. In this case, though, the LEO was overzealous in his questioning. In other words, the LEO(s) just knew that they had done it. The cop(s) were wrong. (You can read more about the interrogation techniques online.)

The Innocence Project - Know the Cases: Browse Profiles:Christopher Ochoa

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_confession

Lawyers tell people to lawyer up not because they're worried about the good cops but because they're worried about the overzealous cops. The ones who want to simply close a case, get a pat on the back, and go home; or the ones who are certain they can pick the criminal. Even if those cops are 1/100, you wouldn't want one accusing you of a crime you didn't commit and twisting your words (or waving a gun in your face during interrogation).

Not talking, in America anyway, does not mean you're guilty. If you think it does, you need to review the Bill of Rights and/or move elsewhere (Iran?).

 

[utrecht]

I can use google and find incompetent people or people who made terrible mistakes in every field. Drunk doctors, incompetent lawyers who only care about money, crooked financial planners who steal clients money...etc. That doesn't mean you should be paranoid that everyone is crooked, incompetent or out to get you.

 

[REWahoo]

How quickly the holiday spirit ebbs...

 

[MichaelB]

This thread is getting sort of funny.

Also a bit surreal. In this thread they're calling lawyers lazy good for nothing's. Gotta make up our minds here.

My father was a lawyer, and he would have laughed at this and then told everyone they were full of it. But politely, in Latin, and using big obscure words no one understood, except other lawyers .

 

[ERhoosier]

I can use google and find incompetent people or people who made terrible mistakes in every field. Drunk doctors, incompetent lawyers who only care about money, crooked financial planners who steal clients money...etc. That doesn't mean you should be paranoid that everyone is crooked, incompetent or out to get you.

As the old card players used to say-

Trust everyone......but always cut the cards

 

[eridanus]

I can use google and find incompetent people or people who made terrible mistakes in every field. Drunk doctors, incompetent lawyers who only care about money, crooked financial planners who steal clients money...etc. That doesn't mean you should be paranoid that everyone is crooked, incompetent or out to get you.

Maybe you missed the "1/100" part? 1% is a far cry from 100%. Given that the overzealous cops don't have a name tag on them ("Beware! Overzealous/crooked cop!"), it's far better to lawyer up if a cop has decided to also be the judge and jury.

Although getting arrested and falsely put into prison might be a quicker way to ER/millionaire status once you're released and the state compensates you.

 

[Sarah in SC]

I can use google and find incompetent people or people who made terrible mistakes in every field. Drunk doctors, incompetent lawyers who only care about money, crooked financial planners who steal clients money...etc. That doesn't mean you should be paranoid that everyone is crooked, incompetent or out to get you.

Hey there buddy, it does get kinda hard to take when it seems everyone on the forum/thread is piling on about the bad apples in your profession. But do try not to take it personally, really. After all, there are plenty of lawyer jokes left to tell.


~Says the financial planner who can find a complaint here every day about the less scrupulous members of her chosen profession.

 

[Midpack]

I can use google and find incompetent people or people who made terrible mistakes in every field. Drunk doctors, incompetent lawyers who only care about money, crooked financial planners who steal clients money...etc. That doesn't mean you should be paranoid that everyone is crooked, incompetent or out to get you.

That was my initial reaction too.

'Proof by exception,' a tired old approach that many people still don't see through. I had employees who tried it all the time...

 

[RyanM]

Reason not to talk to the cops

Primary reason not to talk to the cops is ...you always have more to lose than they do, in the case when you are could become a suspect.

 

[Lazarus]

If they are talking to you, you are already a suspect to some extent. I am sure most police are just fine. Problem is I can't afford to give them the benefit of the doubt. I have too much to lose, they have everything to gain by closing their case.

Once you have been questioned and they say things like "We know you were at that location", when they know no such thing you will look at it differently.

I have an inlaw in law enforcement and he verifies that they try to get people to confess. He says that the guilty always want to get it off their chest.

So yeah, I will not be talking beyond identifying myself if it ever happens again.

 

[utrecht]

If they are talking to you, you are already a suspect to some extent. I am sure most police are just fine. Problem is I can't afford to give them the benefit of the doubt. I have too much to lose, they have everything to gain by closing their case.

Once you have been questioned and they say things like "We know you were at that location", when they know no such thing you will look at it differently.

I have an inlaw in law enforcement and he verifies that they try to get people to confess. He says that the guilty always want to get it off their chest.

So yeah, I will not be talking beyond identifying myself if it ever happens again.

That's shocking that the cops would try to get people to confess? I think that what you, as a taxpayer, are paying the cops to do isn't it?

Don't you want the guilty people to confess? I guarantee you that you would if you got shot and robbed, or your wife had gotten raped.

I don't understand any of these arguments that people are making unless they have something to hide. Like I said at the beginning of this thread, if you are guilty you should probably keep your mouth shut, but if you are innocent I seriously doubt that the cops are going to make you confess. It happens once in a blue moon and always involves a mentally challenged person. That's a whole different situation than what we are talking about here.

We can play "what if" all day. What if you get robbed and call the cops and then the cops see that you have an eagle feather in your car and you end up in trouble? Are you never going to call the cops and report a crime just in case they try to pin something on you? That's ridiculous.

What if some guy witnesses your wife get run over by a car but he refuses to cooperate because he has a tiny lobster in his car and doesn't want to talk to the police? I bet you aren't so happy with him.

 

[Original Wally]

**I don't understand any of these arguments that people are making unless they have something to hide**

And, FINALLY, there you have if from a cop... you are guilty until proven innocent. "If you didn't do anything wrong, then why am I talking you?"

THAT, dear readers, is EXACTLY the reason for the amendments to the Constitution.