Join Early Retirement Today
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 12-28-2012, 10:50 AM   #101
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,268
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazarus View Post
I have a question about this. What compels a person to come in for an interview?
Nothing compels them to come in unless they are under arrest. In any other case it would be voluntary. Most people whose name comes up during an investigation want to get their name cleared as soon as possible. You can imagine how stressful being in limbo must be.

The majority of people do come in voluntarily and the majority of them do talk to detectives. The best way for an innocent person to get their name cleared is to answer questions. Most guilty people also talk to detectives. They either try to lie their way out of whatever they did, or confess, or both.
__________________

__________________
utrecht is offline  
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 12-28-2012, 11:03 AM   #102
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,268
Quote:
Originally Posted by Letj View Post
Is advising you not the talk the only thing a lawyer can do? How about preventing charges in the first place by explaining or clarifying misunderstandings or circumstances, presenting your side of the story, etc. This may allow the DA to reconsider whether charges are warranted.
In real life it doesnt work like it does on TV. Your lawyer isnt going to burst into the room and say "That's it! Stop talking to my client!". He isnt going to get you released any faster, if you are being detained or arrested.

You dont need a lawyer to explain yourself or clarify misunderstandings. You can only do that by talking to the police, which is what Ive been saying all along. The whole point of this thread is that the law professor is teaching his prospective students to not allow their clients to talk to the police under any circumstances.

In most jurisdictions, the DA doesnt decide whether or not charges are filed. The DA wont even see the case for weeks after it is filed. Presenting your side of the story very well might make the cops reconsider whether changes are warranted though. But again, thats what Ive been saying all along.
__________________

__________________
utrecht is offline  
Old 12-28-2012, 11:04 AM   #103
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,038
Quote:
Originally Posted by utrecht View Post
Nothing compels them to come in unless they are under arrest. In any other case it would be voluntary. Most people whose name comes up during an investigation want to get their name cleared as soon as possible. You can imagine how stressful being in limbo must be.

The majority of people do come in voluntarily and the majority of them do talk to detectives. The best way for an innocent person to get their name cleared is to answer questions. Most guilty people also talk to detectives. They either try to lie their way out of whatever they did, or confess, or both.
Probably I would come in voluntarily but with counsel. If the questioning was not about me I probably would not seek counsel. (I have given a deposition once about a traffic fatality I witnessed.)

My brother in law was a detective. I have talked to him a lot about people confessing. He says they do it all the time. I can't imagine why. He says they feel guilty. Apparently some innocent people confess too. Even more baffling.

When I was questioned one statement made was "Confess it will go easier on you." I said, "No, it wouldn't since I didn't do it." I expect if I had counsel these sort of statements would not have been made.

Police do not have the power to make deals about the punishment anyway.
__________________
In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they are not.
Lazarus is offline  
Old 12-28-2012, 11:53 AM   #104
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,268
People do confess all the time. Since most people here are more likely to be the victim of a serious crime than to commit one, I would think you would be happy about that. Most innocent people who confess are mentally challenged in some way. Any competent detective should be able to tell if that is the case and act accordingly. Unfortunately there are some bad cops just like every other profession. Not long ago I did have a guy confess to stealing a kid's bike. I knew for a fact that he was lying because his confession didn't match that way the kid told me it happened. His description also wasn't even close to the suspect description given by the victim. Too many details were wrong but he did know the exact spot where the bike was taken from so it was very strange and I never figured out exactly what the deal was. I can only guess that he was nearby when it happened and he was protecting someone. He was obviously involved in some way because I work undercover and I set up a sting and bought the bike from the suspect who was selling it on Craigslist.

Not only do police not have powers to make deals regarding punishment, if a confession was given after the person was promised something in return, the confession would be inadmissible. Police do make deals though. For example: we may agree not to file a drug charge if a person cooperates in relation to another more serious charge.
__________________
utrecht is offline  
Old 12-28-2012, 01:34 PM   #105
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 925
Quote:
Originally Posted by utrecht View Post
...Police do make deals though. For example: we may agree not to file a drug charge if a person cooperates in relation to another more serious charge.
I have often wondered about this (another person who watches too much TV here): Is there anything preventing the authorities from reneging on such a deal by later charging someone who made such a deal for their crime at a later date?
__________________
If there's one thing in my life that's missing; It's the time I spend alone
Sailing on the cool and bright clear waters; There's lots of those friendly people
Showin me ways to go; And I never want to lose your inspiration
CoolChange is offline  
Old 12-28-2012, 02:19 PM   #106
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,268
Again, I'm not a lawyer so I'm not sure if there is anything that would be legally binding to a deal like that, but if we did back out of a deal and bascially screwed the guy over, it would make it very tough to make deals in the future. Things like that spread like wildfire in the jails and court houses and nobody would trust us. Some deals are put in writing depending on the situation and my guess is that a judge would be very upset if we reneged on even a verbal deal if it came out in court. I believe you should be fair to people no matter what they've done.
__________________
utrecht is offline  
Old 12-28-2012, 02:52 PM   #107
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 710
Do police have any discretion in making an arrest or is it strickly based in the letter of the law? I often find that kids get arrested for doing things that are illegal and speaks more to their immaturity than anything else. Unlike almost any country in the world, the US arrest youth for things that in other countries would get you turned over to your parents. The result of this is the chance of a successful life ends before you even have the sense to stay out of trouble. I have always found that there are too many arrests for everything from vandalism to public drunkenness.
__________________
Letj is offline  
Old 12-28-2012, 03:06 PM   #108
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,268
Yes, police have a lot of discretion. I'm guessing a lot of that depends on each individual department. My guess is that the bigger the city is, the more discretion officers have for minor crimes. It also depends on the officer himself. I've seen some officers write 300 tickets per month and others refuse to write a ticket unless you ran a red light and almost caused an accident.
__________________
utrecht is offline  
Old 12-28-2012, 03:26 PM   #109
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 710
Quote:
Originally Posted by utrecht View Post
Yes, police have a lot of discretion. I'm guessing a lot of that depends on each individual department. My guess is that the bigger the city is, the more discretion officers have for minor crimes. It also depends on the officer himself. I've seen some officers write 300 tickets per month and others refuse to write a ticket unless you ran a red light and almost caused an accident.
Interesting! Yet so many people end up in jail for minor offenses and victimless crimes in the US. I thought this explained the overcrowding in many city jails. In France, I have seen drunks picked up from the streets not for jail but to be held until they sober up.
__________________
Letj is offline  
Old 12-28-2012, 05:48 PM   #110
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
John Galt III's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,285
Quote:
Originally Posted by Letj View Post
....snip.... I have always found that there are too many arrests for everything from vandalism to public drunkenness.
And 40 years ago the record of the arrest for some embarrassing youthful indiscretion would stay tucked away in a file cabinet, available only to police and to anyone who actually knew the record was there. But now the arrest details are sold to brokers, and are on the internet for your neighbors to enjoy.
__________________
John Galt III is offline  
Old 12-28-2012, 06:57 PM   #111
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,268
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Galt III View Post
And 40 years ago the record of the arrest for some embarrassing youthful indiscretion would stay tucked away in a file cabinet, available only to police and to anyone who actually knew the record was there. But now the arrest details are sold to brokers, and are on the internet for your neighbors to enjoy.
Never heard of that. Pretty sure that would be illegal. Details?
__________________
utrecht is offline  
Old 12-28-2012, 07:00 PM   #112
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 710
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Galt III View Post

And 40 years ago the record of the arrest for some embarrassing youthful indiscretion would stay tucked away in a file cabinet, available only to police and to anyone who actually knew the record was there. But now the arrest details are sold to brokers, and are on the internet for your neighbors to enjoy.
Indeed, very sad because so many lives are ruined for no good reason. Show me someone who has not had a youthful indiscretion.
__________________
Letj is offline  
Old 12-28-2012, 07:03 PM   #113
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 710
Quote:
Originally Posted by utrecht View Post

Never heard of that. Pretty sure that would be illegal. Details?

I am not sure if it can be sold but it is easily available on the internet for anyone who is willing to pay a small fee.
__________________
Letj is offline  
Old 12-28-2012, 07:11 PM   #114
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Mulligan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 7,379
Quote:
Originally Posted by Letj

Interesting! Yet so many people end up in jail for minor offenses and victimless crimes in the US. I thought this explained the overcrowding in many city jails. In France, I have seen drunks picked up from the streets not for jail but to be held until they sober up.
That reminds me, a few years ago, a highway patrol officer arrested a friend of mine for DWI, while he was out of town at a conference, obviously drinking too much after conference hours. He took him to the jail about 15 miles away. Since he was there by himself, he had nobody to get him. The arresting officer told him he was getting off work and said he would give him a ride back to his hotel, which according to my friend was considerably out of his way. Imagine that, being arrested and handcuffed and stuffed in the back, and on the way back sitting in the front of his car two hours later, getting a personal ride home. FWIW- I have had nothing but positive interactions with police officers, though I have not been charged ever with a crime.
__________________
Mulligan is online now  
Old 12-28-2012, 08:40 PM   #115
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,268
Quote:
Originally Posted by Letj View Post
I am not sure if it can be sold but it is easily available on the internet for anyone who is willing to pay a small fee.
Juvenile records are protected and sealed. You need a court order to get into them. Its not legal in Texas, and probably not anywhere else, to put them on the internet. Are you sure we are talking about juvenile records?
__________________
utrecht is offline  
Old 12-28-2012, 08:41 PM   #116
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,038
My interactions with police have been mostly positive. And they have been few. I am a pro law enforcement guy. Never been arrested nor has anyone in my family. I have law enforcement people in my family.

Police are just people and their age and experience are variable. As the ex officer posted some issue hundreds of tickets some none. So why would we expect the questioning of people invited to make a statement to not vary?

I still would not risk going to jail on the opinion of Police with out counsel. Too much at risk. This should not be construed to be an anti police or law enforcement point of view. I just have to look out for my self and not take chances.

Even if its only .00001% of the police that go overboard I don't want to be that guy.
__________________
In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they are not.
Lazarus is offline  
Old 12-28-2012, 08:55 PM   #117
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Sacramento area
Posts: 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by utrecht View Post
Never heard of that. Pretty sure that would be illegal. Details?

Check out a rag we bumped into when crossing the USA in our trailer... in Oklahoma, on a convenience store counter (I was making a gas stop) there was a rag called Oklahoma Jail Birds. Mug shots based on arrests - NOT convistions.
__________________
AWeinel is offline  
Old 12-28-2012, 11:51 PM   #118
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Rustward's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,572
Quote:
Originally Posted by AWeinel View Post
Check out a rag we bumped into when crossing the USA in our trailer... in Oklahoma, on a convenience store counter (I was making a gas stop) there was a rag called Oklahoma Jail Birds. Mug shots based on arrests - NOT convistions.
See some of them here: LookWhoGotBusted.com

I doubt that this site has any juveniles, though. Most of this stuff is mined from public records.
__________________
Rustward is offline  
Old 12-29-2012, 06:04 AM   #119
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Sacramento area
Posts: 444
Agree that **generally** juveniles SHOULD BE off limits (if not already) - for minor legal problems. Major, well that is another story, IMHO
__________________
AWeinel is offline  
Old 12-29-2012, 09:58 AM   #120
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 710
Quote:
Originally Posted by utrecht View Post

Juvenile records are protected and sealed. You need a court order to get into them. Its not legal in Texas, and probably not anywhere else, to put them on the internet. Are you sure we are talking about juvenile records?
Regardless, nobody's records for minor offenses where you're not a threat to the public should be on line. In my city, the local paper and local channels publishe the name and picture of people arrested. Imagine what harm this does if you're falsely accused or otherwise innocent. It's hard to imagine the social, psychological and mental damage this can do unless you are that individual or you know someone it happened to (I did). In many other places, the accused is shielded unless convicted.
__________________

__________________
Letj is offline  
Closed Thread


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:05 PM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.