Don't Talk to Cops

[utrecht]

I have a question about this. What compels a person to come in for an interview?

Nothing compels them to come in unless they are under arrest. In any other case it would be voluntary. Most people whose name comes up during an investigation want to get their name cleared as soon as possible. You can imagine how stressful being in limbo must be.

The majority of people do come in voluntarily and the majority of them do talk to detectives. The best way for an innocent person to get their name cleared is to answer questions. Most guilty people also talk to detectives. They either try to lie their way out of whatever they did, or confess, or both.

 

[utrecht]

Is advising you not the talk the only thing a lawyer can do? How about preventing charges in the first place by explaining or clarifying misunderstandings or circumstances, presenting your side of the story, etc. This may allow the DA to reconsider whether charges are warranted.

In real life it doesnt work like it does on TV. Your lawyer isnt going to burst into the room and say "That's it! Stop talking to my client!". He isnt going to get you released any faster, if you are being detained or arrested.

You dont need a lawyer to explain yourself or clarify misunderstandings. You can only do that by talking to the police, which is what Ive been saying all along. The whole point of this thread is that the law professor is teaching his prospective students to not allow their clients to talk to the police under any circumstances.

In most jurisdictions, the DA doesnt decide whether or not charges are filed. The DA wont even see the case for weeks after it is filed. Presenting your side of the story very well might make the cops reconsider whether changes are warranted though. But again, thats what Ive been saying all along.

 

[Lazarus]

Nothing compels them to come in unless they are under arrest. In any other case it would be voluntary. Most people whose name comes up during an investigation want to get their name cleared as soon as possible. You can imagine how stressful being in limbo must be.

The majority of people do come in voluntarily and the majority of them do talk to detectives. The best way for an innocent person to get their name cleared is to answer questions. Most guilty people also talk to detectives. They either try to lie their way out of whatever they did, or confess, or both.

Probably I would come in voluntarily but with counsel. If the questioning was not about me I probably would not seek counsel. (I have given a deposition once about a traffic fatality I witnessed.)

My brother in law was a detective. I have talked to him a lot about people confessing. He says they do it all the time. I can't imagine why. He says they feel guilty. Apparently some innocent people confess too. Even more baffling.

When I was questioned one statement made was "Confess it will go easier on you." I said, "No, it wouldn't since I didn't do it." I expect if I had counsel these sort of statements would not have been made.

Police do not have the power to make deals about the punishment anyway.

 

[utrecht]

People do confess all the time. Since most people here are more likely to be the victim of a serious crime than to commit one, I would think you would be happy about that. Most innocent people who confess are mentally challenged in some way. Any competent detective should be able to tell if that is the case and act accordingly. Unfortunately there are some bad cops just like every other profession. Not long ago I did have a guy confess to stealing a kid's bike. I knew for a fact that he was lying because his confession didn't match that way the kid told me it happened. His description also wasn't even close to the suspect description given by the victim. Too many details were wrong but he did know the exact spot where the bike was taken from so it was very strange and I never figured out exactly what the deal was. I can only guess that he was nearby when it happened and he was protecting someone. He was obviously involved in some way because I work undercover and I set up a sting and bought the bike from the suspect who was selling it on Craigslist.

Not only do police not have powers to make deals regarding punishment, if a confession was given after the person was promised something in return, the confession would be inadmissible. Police do make deals though. For example: we may agree not to file a drug charge if a person cooperates in relation to another more serious charge.

 

[CoolChange]

...Police do make deals though. For example: we may agree not to file a drug charge if a person cooperates in relation to another more serious charge.

I have often wondered about this (another person who watches too much TV here): Is there anything preventing the authorities from reneging on such a deal by later charging someone who made such a deal for their crime at a later date?

 

[utrecht]

Again, I'm not a lawyer so I'm not sure if there is anything that would be legally binding to a deal like that, but if we did back out of a deal and bascially screwed the guy over, it would make it very tough to make deals in the future. Things like that spread like wildfire in the jails and court houses and nobody would trust us. Some deals are put in writing depending on the situation and my guess is that a judge would be very upset if we reneged on even a verbal deal if it came out in court. I believe you should be fair to people no matter what they've done.

 

[Letj]

Do police have any discretion in making an arrest or is it strickly based in the letter of the law? I often find that kids get arrested for doing things that are illegal and speaks more to their immaturity than anything else. Unlike almost any country in the world, the US arrest youth for things that in other countries would get you turned over to your parents. The result of this is the chance of a successful life ends before you even have the sense to stay out of trouble. I have always found that there are too many arrests for everything from vandalism to public drunkenness.

 

[utrecht]

Yes, police have a lot of discretion. I'm guessing a lot of that depends on each individual department. My guess is that the bigger the city is, the more discretion officers have for minor crimes. It also depends on the officer himself. I've seen some officers write 300 tickets per month and others refuse to write a ticket unless you ran a red light and almost caused an accident.

 

[Letj]

Yes, police have a lot of discretion. I'm guessing a lot of that depends on each individual department. My guess is that the bigger the city is, the more discretion officers have for minor crimes. It also depends on the officer himself. I've seen some officers write 300 tickets per month and others refuse to write a ticket unless you ran a red light and almost caused an accident.

Interesting! Yet so many people end up in jail for minor offenses and victimless crimes in the US. I thought this explained the overcrowding in many city jails. In France, I have seen drunks picked up from the streets not for jail but to be held until they sober up.

 

[John Galt III]

....snip.... I have always found that there are too many arrests for everything from vandalism to public drunkenness.

And 40 years ago the record of the arrest for some embarrassing youthful indiscretion would stay tucked away in a file cabinet, available only to police and to anyone who actually knew the record was there. But now the arrest details are sold to brokers, and are on the internet for your neighbors to enjoy.

 

[utrecht]

And 40 years ago the record of the arrest for some embarrassing youthful indiscretion would stay tucked away in a file cabinet, available only to police and to anyone who actually knew the record was there. But now the arrest details are sold to brokers, and are on the internet for your neighbors to enjoy.

Never heard of that. Pretty sure that would be illegal. Details?

 

[Letj]

And 40 years ago the record of the arrest for some embarrassing youthful indiscretion would stay tucked away in a file cabinet, available only to police and to anyone who actually knew the record was there. But now the arrest details are sold to brokers, and are on the internet for your neighbors to enjoy.

Indeed, very sad because so many lives are ruined for no good reason. Show me someone who has not had a youthful indiscretion.

 

[Letj]

Never heard of that. Pretty sure that would be illegal. Details?

I am not sure if it can be sold but it is easily available on the internet for anyone who is willing to pay a small fee.

 

[Mulligan]

Interesting! Yet so many people end up in jail for minor offenses and victimless crimes in the US. I thought this explained the overcrowding in many city jails. In France, I have seen drunks picked up from the streets not for jail but to be held until they sober up.

That reminds me, a few years ago, a highway patrol officer arrested a friend of mine for DWI, while he was out of town at a conference, obviously drinking too much after conference hours. He took him to the jail about 15 miles away. Since he was there by himself, he had nobody to get him. The arresting officer told him he was getting off work and said he would give him a ride back to his hotel, which according to my friend was considerably out of his way. Imagine that, being arrested and handcuffed and stuffed in the back, and on the way back sitting in the front of his car two hours later, getting a personal ride home. FWIW- I have had nothing but positive interactions with police officers, though I have not been charged ever with a crime.

 

[utrecht]

I am not sure if it can be sold but it is easily available on the internet for anyone who is willing to pay a small fee.

Juvenile records are protected and sealed. You need a court order to get into them. Its not legal in Texas, and probably not anywhere else, to put them on the internet. Are you sure we are talking about juvenile records?

 

[Lazarus]

My interactions with police have been mostly positive. And they have been few. I am a pro law enforcement guy. Never been arrested nor has anyone in my family. I have law enforcement people in my family.

Police are just people and their age and experience are variable. As the ex officer posted some issue hundreds of tickets some none. So why would we expect the questioning of people invited to make a statement to not vary?

I still would not risk going to jail on the opinion of Police with out counsel. Too much at risk. This should not be construed to be an anti police or law enforcement point of view. I just have to look out for my self and not take chances.

Even if its only .00001% of the police that go overboard I don't want to be that guy.

 

[Original Wally]

Never heard of that. Pretty sure that would be illegal. Details?

Check out a rag we bumped into when crossing the USA in our trailer... in Oklahoma, on a convenience store counter (I was making a gas stop) there was a rag called Oklahoma Jail Birds. Mug shots based on arrests - NOT convistions.

 

[Rustward]

Check out a rag we bumped into when crossing the USA in our trailer... in Oklahoma, on a convenience store counter (I was making a gas stop) there was a rag called Oklahoma Jail Birds. Mug shots based on arrests - NOT convistions.

See some of them here: LookWhoGotBusted.com

I doubt that this site has any juveniles, though. Most of this stuff is mined from public records.

 

[Original Wally]

Agree that **generally** juveniles SHOULD BE off limits (if not already) - for minor legal problems. Major, well that is another story, IMHO

 

[Letj]

Juvenile records are protected and sealed. You need a court order to get into them. Its not legal in Texas, and probably not anywhere else, to put them on the internet. Are you sure we are talking about juvenile records?

Regardless, nobody's records for minor offenses where you're not a threat to the public should be on line. In my city, the local paper and local channels publishe the name and picture of people arrested. Imagine what harm this does if you're falsely accused or otherwise innocent. It's hard to imagine the social, psychological and mental damage this can do unless you are that individual or you know someone it happened to (I did). In many other places, the accused is shielded unless convicted.

 

[ziggy29]

Regardless, nobody's records for minor offenses where you're not a threat to the public should be on line. In my city, the local paper and local channels publishe the name and picture of people arrested. Imagine what harm this does if you're falsely accused or otherwise innocent. It's hard to imagine the social, psychological and mental damage this can do unless you are that individual or you know someone it happened to (I did). In many other places, the accused is shielded unless convicted.

I would claim that we are not better off for having a "scarlet letter" society. If someone offends once, especially something relatively minor, what good does it do any of us to have those records so easily accessible that *anything* that requires a background check can stop you -- no matter how old the offense.

If we pride ourselves on being a nation of second chances, of learning from your mistakes and improving yourself, how can you do that when you can't get a job because of some stupid thing you did when you were 20? And if they can't get a job, aren't we more likely to turn them toward reoffending?

 

[Letj]

I would claim that we are not better off for having a "scarlet letter" society. If someone offends once, especially something relatively minor, what good does it do any of us to have those records so easily accessible that *anything* that requires a background check can stop you -- no matter how old the offense.

If we pride ourselves on being a nation of second chances, of learning from your mistakes and improving yourself, how can you do that when you can't get a job because of some stupid thing you did when you were 20? And if they can't get a job, aren't we more likely to turn them toward reoffending?

Couldn't agree with you more.

 

[John Galt III]

Getting back to the "dont talk to cops" theme : a lot of these poor guys with their shameful records on the internet are there because they trusted a cop just a little too much, and blabbed, since the cop told them it was just between the two of them, get it off your chest, and all will be ok, etc. Plus, there was no internet then, and no one dreamed their neighbors would be seeing their records at the click of a mouse someday. OK, OK, only non-juveniles got a public record. 18 and older, I suppose.

 

[Mulligan]

I would claim that we are not better off for having a "scarlet letter" society. If someone offends once, especially something relatively minor, what good does it do any of us to have those records so easily accessible that *anything* that requires a background check can stop you -- no matter how old the offense.

If we pride ourselves on being a nation of second chances, of learning from your mistakes and improving yourself, how can you do that when you can't get a job because of some stupid thing you did when you were 20? And if they can't get a job, aren't we more likely to turn them toward reoffending?

I have always thought that, too. You could have done all sorts of stupid stuff back in the 60s and 70s, matured and leave it in the past as no one would go looking deep enough to find it. I always thought a good "caning" would suffice with no record left behind for minor offenses, so they could learn from their mistake, but not have it haunt them the rest of their life. But then again, for me, the threat of pain, has always kept my behaviors in check.

 

[Nemo2]

Imagine that, being arrested and handcuffed and stuffed in the back, and on the way back sitting in the front of his car two hours later, getting a personal ride home.

Some 40 years ago, when I returned to school, I worked nights/weekends, etc, as a 'hotel detective' in a large Toronto establishment.......had occasion to have the cops (with whom we had regular contact for numerous 'offences'/reasons) evict a couple out-of-town young guys because their dope smoking was stinking up the hallways....(their money was refunded).

Some time later one of the officers called, said they had decided not to press charges against the young guys, and asked if we'd consider re-renting the room to them.

When I said that I didn't think that'd be a great idea, the cop said "Yeah, your place is too expensive anyway.....we'll find them somewhere cheaper".